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fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/16/2014: 16:04:23
quote:
Originally posted by dsreiner
quote:
Originally posted by fiddlepogo
While I understand Dave's reason for calling 1-1-1-3-1-1. Middle Shuffle... that slur in the middle, I think Sawshuffle is a better term BECAUSE:
A. It has a lot of "sawstrokes" in it- 5 out of 8 notes, so it's the dominant flavor.
B. The first half is mostly sawstroke, while the last half is almost the same flavor as Nashville Shuffle. So it's kind of a hybrid of the two- so a hybrid of the names is a natural- Saw from sawstroke, and Shuffle from Nashville Shuffle. (Wait- maybe it should be the Sawville Shuffle!!!
)
I really don't think it's gonna be possible to name ALL the patterns and have them STICK. I just think that Syncoshuffle, Smoothshuffle and Sawshuffle are common enough that they deserve names too. And since recent events on the Fiddle Hangout have shown that geographical names don't have ANYTHING in them that inherently links them to any particular pattern, my hope is that descriptive names have a better chance.
Nomenclature is always tough and there's no easy answer.
Your point A is true of the Middle Shuffle, but it's also true of the Front Shuffle 3-1-1-1-1-1 and the End Shuffle 1-1-1-1-1-1-3 (slurring into the next bar).
However, the terms "Front," "Middle," and "End" give an idea of where the group of 3 is placed, unlike "Sawshuffle."
There's also the "Smooth Shuffle" (your term, which I like), that can be explained easily as Front + Middle.
On your point B, the term "Shuffle" doesn't carry much information, and it doesn't necessarily imply "Nashville Shuffle" (although the term "single shuffle" is sometimes applied to Nashville shuffle).
Finally, I'm inclined to use the name Tommy's Shuffle (rather than Syncoshuffle) to pay homage to Tommy Jarrell, since it's such a big part of his style. It also gets away from naming many shuffles with an "S" name. Of course, there's also Benton's Shuffle (from the beginning of Benton's Dream).
This all represents a little preview of the upcoming book and DVD
Dave
Ah.... I see. That makes sense.
I still like Sawshuffle though!
FWIW, I DO use the your Front Shuffle occasionally, like on the B part of Robinson County.
And IRRC, accidentally doing the End Shuffle on Leather Breeches one day was what initially got me going on 3 note slurs, and then, doing that, one day I accidentally shifted the slur to the middle to find Sawshuffle!
BUT I don't really consider those Shuffles. To me they are just 3 note slurs at the beginning or end of a series of sawstrokes.
Put the slur in the middle however, and it behaves a LOT like Nashville Shuffle, since it has the 2 single strokes at the end.
Part of the method to my Shuffle Madness is this:
Four note patterns can get old really quick- 2 note slurs, Georgia Shuffle. Nashville is an eight note patterns as far as directions, but as far as sound, it SOUNDS like a four note pattern.
The patterns that start differently from Nashville, but end the same way, are handy, because, having the same ending, they work together to maintain a cohesive sense of groove. But since they differ at the beginning, they avoid the constant mind-numbing repetition that soured me on Nashville after only playing fiddle for about 3 years.
So while I see how "Middle Shuffle" hangs together with "End Shuffle" and "Front Shuffle" logically, "Sawshuffle" hangs together with Smoothshuffle, Nashville Shuffle, and Syncoshuffle in terms of GROOVE.
One other way your names do make sense:
I use "Front Shuffle" as a beginning lick when I use it. I use "End Shuffle" as an ending lick. And while I use Sawshuffle (aka Middle Shuffle) whereever, it works great as body lick or "meat and potatoes" lick to provide the core groove. All the patterns that end in two sawstrokes after a slur seem to work that way.... well, I do mostly use Smoothshuffle as a beginning lick.
The problem with calling it Tommy's Shuffle:
Tommy Jarrell was a fiddling hero of major proportions to MANY Old Time fiddlers of my generation. ( and to me- I visited him myself!) BUT, outside of US Old Time, and sometimes out of Appalachian Old Time, there are many fiddlers who just don't "get" Tommy Jarrell's fiddling. The tone is too vinegary, and the melodies aren't pretty enough for them.
But they still might be interested in the pattern... maybe more so with a neutral, descriptive name.
Bluegrass fiddlers might be interested- Scruggs banjo syncopates plenty.... Bluegrass fiddle, not so much, from what I've heard. But I don't think Tommy Jarrell really resonates with Bluegrass fiddlers as a whole. Texas fiddlers neither!
Some of the Canadians might not believe me, but I've heard the pattern in videos of several prominent Canadian fiddlers. But for the most part, I'm guessing Tommy Jarrell's playing doesn't resonate with them either!
And Tom Sauber taught it to me in the mid-70's, I think before he ever collaborated with Brad Leftwich. So I don't think he got the lick from Brad, which means he likely found it in the fiddling of either Mel Durham or Earl Collins. I've also listened to recordings of John Summers where he used it as an ending lick.
fiddlepogo - Posted - 07/23/2014: 09:41:15
quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggy
sitting down with my morning coffee...saw this thread and my first thought was...Oh Good, Humbled has been here!!!
More like"Oh DREAD!" for me!
Bowing threads going "bump" in the night are a potentially OMINOUS development.
I awaits the developments with baited breath.
And yes, Peggy,
there really IS a backwards!
Hmmmm....
morning coffee- good IDEA!!!!
fiddlepogo - Posted - 02/25/2015: 14:41:10
Yeah.... pretty quiet.... but I'm not sure we're ready for THAT antidote to "pretty quiet"!
(I wonder if all our Northeasterners still have power, or if they are just too busy shoveling or TUNNELING through the snow to have the time to post.)
TWO bowing threads just showed up.... lessee.... now where did I put my flameproof suit????
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