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What I love about playing fiddle is generally understanding and appreciating all forms of music better.
I love how it all overlaps. From Pop to Folk to Classical.
I forget how this topic even came up. It was probably when my teacher accompanied me while I played something for her and I said what was THAT, teach me. That's how most stuff comes up.
What is it:
It’s called a 3 3 2 pattern. I think it’s technically a Polyrhythm (google it) but those are usually “evenly” off the beat (like 3 beats over 2).
Don’t really care to discuss that aspect.
Think of a reel with one measure of 8 1/8 notes (with “Down Beats” on the typical 1st and 5th 1/8 note).
We have 3 groups of 1/8 notes per measure. Here is 2 measures worth.
|[1 2 3] [1 2 3] [1 2]|[1 2 3] [1 2 3] [1 2]| and each 1 of each group is accented.
Keep in mind this is for accompaniment and is not a rhythmic pattern you do on top of the melody (like a Georgia Shuffle) !!
See fiddlepogo's comment below though on some of his favorite bowing patterns that create the same rhythmic groove.
Rather than say doing the common “Ooom Chuck” chop on chords, you can try this hip 3 3 2 pattern instead.
Another way of describing 3 3 2 would be to say [accent rest rest] [accent rest rest] [accent rest] because it's the accents that matter most.
Remember, a "rest" is a note, it's just played very quietly, in your head.
An accent is just a note too, typically louder (or different in some way) than the notes around it.
When discussing this with my teacher she said 3 3 2 is all over and she gave me this great example.
In case link breaks search YouTube for “Subway Violinists I knew you were trouble” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=224E-VtB4k4
Now that you heard that listen to the original song and the 3 3 2 jumps out at you.
In case link breaks search YouTube for “Taylor Swift I knew you were trouble” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEh2iECS0To
Please, no wise cracks about Taylor Swift
Now how to do it:
To start off, listen and try playing along with this MP3 of my teacher teaching me.
Just hit a D Chord (Open D and A) Slow it down if you need to.
http://softronix.com/fiddle/3-3-2-Little-Stomp.MP3
Now for a real treat, a video of my teacher doing 3 3 2 accompaniment to a recording of Rodney Miller doing Tamlin.
I think this sounds fantastic and it’s not that hard.
You can use this pattern while some other instrument(s) are doing “Ooom Chuck” (i.e. accenting the downbeat)
She chose Tamlin because the Double Stops are easy (all 1 finger) to allow focus on the pattern.
http://softronix.com/fiddle/Tamlin_3_3_2.MOV
Here is exactly what she is playing (all easy double stops).
If you have trouble with the double stops, just pick one of the notes, either one will work.
Don’t forget you have to accent the 1 on each group of notes.
And to make it even simpler and focus on just the 3 3 2 groove you could just play an open D WITH accents on 3 3 2 for the whole tune.
Then do single note chords, then do the double stops. Then speed it up.
How to Finger the double stops:
Dmin = First finger on A on G string and Open D
Bb = First finger on Bb on G string and Open D
C = Open G and First finger E on D string
A = First finger on both A string on G and E on string
My teacher is using volume for the 1's (accent).
Here is exactly what the Subway Violinist accompaniment is doing.
These double stops are not easy (for me anyway).
But it feels so cool when you do get it though.
How to finger the double stops:
This is much more difficult because it rocks between 2 double stops.
For the "Accent" it plays a High Chord (for 1's) and a Low Chord for non-accented (2's and 3's)
Each finger placement stays put for the whole measure though (actually for 2 measures at a time).
High and Low G = First finger on B on A string and 3rd finger on G string
High and Low D = First finger on A on G string and 2nd finger on F# on D string
High and Low Emin = First finger on both E on G string and B on A string
High and Low C = First finger on E on D string, 2nd finger on C on A string and 3rd finger on C on G string
Notice the bowing is the same on all 4 chords.
High Chord = Bow D and A string (accent on the 1's)
Low Chord = Bow G and D string (Octave G) (no accent for all 2's and 3's)
The hard part for me is when fingering any higher note on D string with out touching G or A string.
And getting these fingers accurately placed when the chord switches.
I am no expert on doing this by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm sure having fun trying.
Note: If I see any non constructive replies, they will be deleted. If you don’t like it move on please.
History:
I re-listened to my lesson I had with my teacher on this, it was about a year ago.
I actually learned about 3 3 2 at a NEFFA Workshop Called Second Fiddle: Rhythm & Chords by John Cannon and Julie Metcalf
My teacher thinks, she's not 100% sure, that it comes from what is called a 3:2 Clave. It's used in Latin and Klezmer music.
Here is a Video on Clave 2:3 and 3:2 first part is the Tempo followed by 2:3 or 3:2 Clave
It's the Second half of the Video that is 3:2 and only the first of half of the 3:2 Clave (the "3" not the "2") that is being discussed here.
The Video is showing you JUST the accents if you accented the 1's on [1 2 3] [1 2 3] [1 2].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsTfm1xIvPA
The 3:2 Clave spans 2 measures. The "3" is the 3 3 2 Pattern. And the 2 has two accents (that I don't think are even)
Also keep in mind the rhythm is the timing of the accented notes (all the 1's). You can do the rhythm with or without all the other notes.
Listen to this groovy group called Genticorum playing a tune called Reel Circulaire
He does the pattern at the 2 minute mark (I'm not sure if it's just 3 3 2 or 3:2 Clave)
Remember the 3: of a 3:2 Clave is the 3 3 2 pattern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgpd3zZRpqA
Hope this does not confuse you, it was brutal re-listening to my lesson, I hear myself struggling to understand it all.
But she sure convinced me this is all over.
Some Observations on learning this 5/28/2015:
When I first burned in the first example 3-3-2-Little-Stomp.MP3 (and the I knew you were trouble) it was very difficult to switch to the TamLin example.
The TamLin example (as my teacher plays it) is always "In the String" (like you would do a shuffle). This has a very different feel to it. Even though the 3 3 2 pulse is the same.
Another thing I noticed is on the 3-3-2-Little-Stomp.MP3 (and the I knew you were trouble) is that keeping the "3 3 2 Pattern" going consistently was easier (even though the double stops and rocking were more difficult). I think the reason is, this pattern, especially when staying in the strings, kind of leads into the next measure. When I just repeat the 3 3 2 pattern on the same chord, my brain and bow think [1 2 3][1 2 3][1 2][1] that last 1 is "shared" with the 1 of the next measure and just links everything together. In other words it Ends the last 3 3 2 and starts the next.
So when it's one chord or repeated chord it flows along fine. But when you switch chords between that last [1 2] and the next [1] it breaks that linkage and throws me off. I can do the B part of Tamlin much better than A part because the chords change every measure in the A Part and there are repeats in the B part. I think the I knew you were trouble didn't have this issue as bad because you were constantly bow rocking and it wasn't as tightly linked. As well as lots of repeated chords.
I also went back to the I knew you were trouble after working on Tamlin and tried to play it more "in the strings" and only played the High Chord for each chord (i.e. no Rocking). This felt a lot like how my teacher played the Tamlin and sounded quite good and very different than how the Train Station guys sound.
11 comments on “Learning the 3 3 2 Pattern”
petehay Says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2015 @12:50:02 PM
This is great! Thank you.
Humbled by this instrument Says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2015 @1:02:58 PM
Okay, so I just went and played Tamlin to my H2 using the 332 pattern interspersed with the usual riffing. I'll listen back to it later. Interesting. Thank you.
amwildman Says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2015 @7:12:06 PM
Thanks for sharing! I need more harmony and accompaniment stuff and this fits the bill perfectly! Now I'll have to go practice it.
fiddlepogo Says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2015 @9:36:41 PM
The bowing patterns 3-3-1-1 (Smoothshuffle), 1-1-1-3-1-1 (Sawshuffle), and 1-2-1-2-1-1 (Syncoshuffle) all have this 3-3-2 thing going on, and that's probably a big part of the reason I like them so much.
Also, the Byrds 12 string picking pattern, Bluegrass banjo rolls, and mandolin McReynold's Picking all have it.
Quite a bit of jazz drumming, too.
mswlogo Says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2015 @10:07:47 PM
Yes, your bowing patterns you listed would create the same rhythmic groove.
Note: I added another section called History that gives a little background.
ChickenMan Says:
Thursday, May 14, 2015 @4:31:02 AM
It helps to break these things up like that. I often use this 3s & 2s method to teach new rhythms to my ukulele group, counting out loud and emphasizing the one as that is usually where the accents are. If you say it over and over 1231231212312312 ... you get the pattern. It's how I've been working out tricky rhythms for thirty years
martynspeck Says:
Tuesday, May 19, 2015 @3:21:24 PM
Does anyone have a source for what the doublestops would be for each of the chords? Or at least the more common chords in the keys we tend to play in?
mswlogo Says:
Tuesday, May 19, 2015 @7:34:12 PM
I added "How to finger the double stops" below the Music Notation for each tune.
for chords that I'm not as fluent with I always have a chord chart up like this one:
hmmm, no way to make a link active within a comment, let's try both ways.
pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/C...rt_50.jpg
pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/C...rt_50.jpg
Just pick any 2 notes (often low for accompaniment) of the chord that you feel you can hit. If you can't hit 2, then hit one. Try different ones.
I requested another tune with easier double stops after working on "I knew you were trouble" for a long time.
martynspeck Says:
Wednesday, May 20, 2015 @10:14:30 AM
Those links aren't working for me. Returns File Not Found.
So I went looking after asking that question and found the following resource.
fiddlerwoman.com/id44.htm
Applying her double stops to notation and using EasyABC to edit my copy of Forked Deer I got the following.
drive.google.com/file/d/0B3eZN...p=sharing
mswlogo Says:
Wednesday, May 20, 2015 @10:36:55 AM
Those links must have pointed into some cache, they worked last night. What you found looks good though.
Your forked deer looks good too. If the rocking between high and low is too much you can just play the high or low only and just pulse it on the accent.
I can get a better groove going when I'm not rocking the bow. It all sounds good though.
I've broken more bow hairs in the past couple weeks than I have since I started fiddling.
mswlogo Says:
Thursday, May 28, 2015 @8:55:54 PM
FYI. I fixed the Music to more accurately match what my teacher actually played. I also added some observations on my own learning process at the bottom of the blog post.
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