Mark, when I first saw that plant growing by a roadside it was a startling experience. I took some photos, but I don't know where they are - might have been before the days of digital cameras. Its also called "Hearts full of love," or "Hearts bursting with love" around here. Might be too cold for it in your locale.

Mark...that's it! We lived up on a high ridge and would have to climb down the mountainside...I can't remember for sure but I believe it was easier to find it on the north slope...where the gingseng grows. We found in deep in the woods.

When it comes to fiddling I am with Elvis:

"I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to."

So it kind of bothers me when people pontificate about fiddle music in performances. But I don't follow that scene...like all those videos on YouTube of people talking and tuning and spouting **** three minutes before they fiddle. I have little interest in that. At jams I've had people preach at me or "correct" me becasue I don't do things like they want it done. F-em.. Real turn off .

When I perform I seldom tune or talk too much about the tunes. Stories are another thing.

As for songs, I don't like sentimental songs much. So Old Ky Home... not one that particularly speaks to me, though if it's antislavery... I like that message.

Murder ballads are often accounts of events...or things people have dealt with...often from the 'elites' of society raping and stealing and murdering common people... just like modern times. f them too! haha

As for musicologists...the one I've read the most is Samuel P. Bayard. Great writer...doesn't spout ****.  Oh... I read Gerald Milnes' book. I thought that was a good read. "Play of a Fiddle".  

I'm not very scholarly either, but I like learning tidbits about a tune...

--- musical intrusion into thread, haha ---

I was just playing "Nia's Barndance". Dermot Byrne wrote it for his daughter.
Here's a video of them playing it together.. :-)
Nice stuff like that, I like to share. I like the tune even more as a result...
like, you should always post videos playing tunes with your kids! :-)

--- end musical intrusion ---

I have 33 spot illustrations to do...so going away for a bit! 

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

So it kind of bothers me when people pontificate about fiddle music in performances. But I don't follow that scene...like all those videos on YouTube of people talking and tuning and spouting **** three minutes before they fiddle. I have little interest in that. At jams I've had people preach at me or "correct" me becasue I don't do things like they want it done. F-em.. Real turn off .

When I perform I seldom tune or talk too much about the tunes.

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I'm mostly in agreement with that. I think all the history is interesting, but that's for the program notes, not for the stage. I don't want to listen to musicians talk, I want to hear them play. It's one thing to give a very brief introduction, but to go beyond that is just distracting.

It is quite aggravating when players sit around talking in between tunes, especially when they veer off into stories that have no meaning to the audience. It kills the flow of the music and it bores the audience. I remember attending a festival by the James River years ago where a Bluegrass band had been hired to perform. When they got around to actually playing a tune it was entertaining, but they couldn't resist rambling on and on between every single tune and they kept telling all these stories that only had meaning to each other. It was so annoying that I would rather they hadn't been there at all. Silence would have been preferable. Of course, the best thing of all would have been for a good fiddler to just play some tunes, but lacking that, the sound of the flowing water was much more pleasant and musical than the yammering.

In college, we had a concert each semester where anyone could perform. The only rules were that the piece had to be under a certain length, the musicians had to take it seriously (not just making fools of themselves drunk or high), no amplification, and there was no tuning onstage barring an emergency. Just to be contrarian, a violist in the orchestra walked out on stage and said "And now for something completely different," then deliberately retuned one string of his viola so everyone could see he was playing in a non-standard tuning (something that was only exciting to him) and then attempted a Bach cello suite portion. It really didn't have the effect he must have been expecting, it annoyed the organizers, and it ended with him getting lost and having to stop short because of a memory slip. It's unfortunate when a performance gets cut short because of a memory issue (another reason people shouldn't be so averse to sheet music), but it wouldn't have been such a hard flop if it hadn't been for all the pretension.

Performance program notes are undervalued. They give the performer a chance to say something interesting that provides context and an opportunity to present it articulately, which they're likely to struggle to do speaking from the cuff. They also keep the music as the focus of the stage.

Sessions and jams are often treated more like get-togethers where people chat and trade stories. That's a double-edged sword, though. It can be interesting for some players and can make them feel more relaxed, like they're not at a performance. But it can also make the event drag, and it's a crushing bore for anyone who doesn't want to chat or for anyone who's listening. 

I'm sure I've posted this a zillian times by now, but for me it all comes down to whether or not the music moves me either emotionally or intellectually. Right now, for example, I'm having a heck of a time listening to an album of Klezmer. Wildly energetic. Wildly heart-on-sleeve. Fiddling to beat the band...

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Sessions and jams are often treated more like get-togethers where people chat and trade stories. That's a double-edged sword, though. It can be interesting for some players and can make them feel more relaxed, like they're not at a performance. But it can also make the event drag, and it's a crushing bore for anyone who doesn't want to chat or for anyone who's listening. 

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That's how a given jam is self-sorting, though. If someone comes a couple times and finds too much or too little of something they'll tend to move on. The ones who like it stay. I'm pretty housebound due to needing to care for my wife full-time so I don't get out to other jams anymore. But I see who comes to my jam, and who returns every week. The overall level of musicianship isn't always that high, but the level of friendship is there. I might wish for both but there's no substitute for friends. We tend to talk between tunes and I'm usually the one who shouts a title gets the next tune rolling.

I may be wrong but I think that the Hangout guidelines frown upon Personal attacks..If a member has a problem with another member.. well, that is what Personal messages are for.. Take it 'off Hangout'.. Please.. We have always been respectful here ..let's not stop now..

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Sessions and jams are often treated more like get-togethers where people chat and trade stories. That's a double-edged sword, though. It can be interesting for some players and can make them feel more relaxed, like they're not at a performance. But it can also make the event drag, and it's a crushing bore for anyone who doesn't want to chat or for anyone who's listening. 

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That's how a given jam is self-sorting, though. If someone comes a couple times and finds too much or too little of something they'll tend to move on. The ones who like it stay. I'm pretty housebound due to needing to care for my wife full-time so I don't get out to other jams anymore. But I see who comes to my jam, and who returns every week. The overall level of musicianship isn't always that high, but the level of friendship is there. I might wish for both but there's no substitute for friends. We tend to talk between tunes and I'm usually the one who shouts a title gets the next tune rolling.

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It doesn't matter whether we're chatting to each other at a jam, playing together, soloing, singing, dancing, drinking, listening or even just smiling across the room. The important thing is that we are communicating. 
 

Nothing like honest communication...where we can all laugh and talk, poke fun at each other at times and then agree or disagree in efforts to seriously put our heads together on how we all feel about one thing or another. We learn from each other and form trusted relationships when we do things that way.

I also don't like hearing talk between songs during performances. Hearing history and such is fine in workshops etc. Someone telling me what a song is about from the stage (especially if it's something they wrote) tells me that the song probably isn't good enough to stand on its own. Hope that doesn't sound to harsh, but great song writing is a serious skill. Have to add that there are definitely exceptions. I think both Arlo Guthrie and John Prine could talk for two hours and you might not even miss the music. Haha.

Jams are whatever they are. Some are lots of chatting between tunes, others mostly play tunes. Sometimes I'm happy to chat and share info, other times I just want to play tunes. Attendance is a choice.

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Originally posted by pmiller510

I also don't like hearing talk between songs during performances. Hearing history and such is fine in workshops etc. Someone telling me what a song is about from the stage (especially if it's something they wrote) tells me that the song probably isn't good enough to stand on its own. Hope that doesn't sound to harsh, but great song writing is a serious skill. Have to add that there are definitely exceptions. I think both Arlo Guthrie and John Prine could talk for two hours and you might not even miss the music. Haha.

Jams are whatever they are. Some are lots of chatting between tunes, others mostly play tunes. Sometimes I'm happy to chat and share info, other times I just want to play tunes. Attendance is a choice.

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I dabble in a bit of storytelling. So next time I get up to tell a story I might just play a tune as the preamble. 

I don't know - I've attended a number of memorable performances where the performer weaves the chat, the story-telling, and the music together in an almost magical way. If an act is nothing but songs and/or instrumental music end to end, that's fine, but I have no objection to some talk. I don't have a great deal of tolerance for empty babble and political opinions, but otherwise ... (shrugs) .....

i distinguished story-telling from musicology in my post as well... story telling is a beautiful art when done well,.. bull-**** pseudo-musicology from ****ers wanting to be experts is ****-spouting could do without.  

Got nothing against told stories. I love a good story, like to hear them and like to tell them. But telling a story and explaining a song and giving a bunch of history are two different things. Telling a story can be a part of show, but generally I go for the music. This may sound like I don't respect the history of the songs and that would be quite wrong. I just don't care to hear (dare I say) musicological discourse and explanation on stage. Hope you can all chuckle a bit at this last line.

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

 ****ers wanting to be experts

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Lord spare us all.

I always had a favorite story I enjoyed telling if I needed some time to return or get ready for the next tune or whatever... "Well I want y'all to know that I got up at 5 a.m. this morning to go horseback riding. (wait a couple of seconds for response...lol...). Oh yeah, y'all didn't know I did this bright and early every morning...I usually ride for maybe a couple of hours. Take this morning, I was on that bronco showin' who's boss for an hour and half...woulda gone longer 'cept I ran outta quarters." I'm sure anybody that knew me in our tiny town heard that one way too many times...lol...but it was a good tuning oppor"tune" ity. Also...sometimes I played for very small groups for elder hostel or volunteers from far away and I"d feel disconnected from the start...I did this mainly for my own attempt to connect and become friends before I started playing with them all gawking at me, bug-eyed and up close and personal...I heard Mr. Rogers say this before a group and I thought it was pretty good. I I said, "Well my name's Peggy #@#$, what's yours? (silence)..." I didn't hear your names, and Mr. Rogers says if we all tell our names at the same time it's a beautiful song...so...what's your name?"  So they'd say their names in a garbled way together and I'd tell 'em Mr. Rogers was right; that sure was a beautiful song.  Then I got one from the 3 Stooges (one of which was a classical violinist, by the way) and I took my hands and did the motions, and said..."Let's try something together.  Put your hands together like this.  (they did).  Now pull them apart like this," etc., getting slightly faster for a few times...then I'd say, "Thank you for that overwelming applause!"  Corny...yes, yes I am.

Having very little to do with musicology and more to do with telling tales, we had a guest last weekend who said that she went to the International Storytelling Festival in Jonesboro, TN. That reminded me of one of my favorite, short, tall tales told by Mark Twain. Please excuse my going off om a tangent......... this happens sometimes at our local jams.........

eastoftheweb.com/short-stories...Stu.shtml

storytellingcenter.net/festiva...festival/

This thread is full of major misconceptions about what constitutes musicology. The voices that object to it the most seem to use it to describe any form of music study that they think is unnecessary. Add to that the intimations that anyone who says anything in favor of the study of music a) doesn't really know anything about it and b) is wasting time with a field of study that isn't important to "real" musicians. That's classic projection ("I don't really know much about the subject, so I'll attempt to cover my ignorance by accusing anyone who actually does know of being ignorant or full of bad information.").

Music history, storytelling, and musicology aren’t the same things.

Again, the premise of this thread was utter nonsense to begin with, and it was never a good-faith attempt at discussion. It was an outright attack on an entire field of study and an obvious personal attack for writing posts on this forum from a perspective that wasn't in line with the OP's personal opinions.

My favorite story is one I told my kids at bedtime. They continue the tradition.

Once upon a time there was a little boy................................and he died. The End.

Mark Ralston - I provided sound reinforcement and recording for the National Storytelling Festival for over 40 years. In that time we presented lots of storytellers who also played music, including David Holt, John McCutcheon, Pete Seeger, Gamble Rogers, Robin Williamson, Tim O'Brien, Kathy Mattea, and many others, including a performer who recited (or read) her stories to guitar accompaniment by John Jackson, one of Nashville's best (and least known) guitarists, who played with Bob Dylan for several years. Lots of fun, and some neat after hours sessions at the hotel.
Their website you linked to included a murky photo of the ghost story concert from the early days. Someone posted this YouTube of an LP we produced from those early years: youtu.be/fRD2JAc7MLE?is=7EKy4T-DTY_uJW66

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Originally posted by wrench13

My favorite story is one I told my kids at bedtime. They continue the tradition.

Once upon a time there was a little boy................................and he died. The End.

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The world's shortest love story: A young man asks a girl to marry him. The girl says no. They both live happily ever after. 

When I met my hubby over 50 years ago now, he had a story he told wherever we went...it was a long convoluted thing that drove people crazy...in a nutshell (the story could take half an hour to tell if he was feelin' good on moonshine or something), a young man lay dying and had his parents at his bedside, he told them he needed a ping pong ball for some urgent reason before he could die...they got him one, and he said he needed 2, etc., etc., gasping and moaning about different existential type stuff with each additional ping pong ball he needed urgently before he could die in peace...and after LOTS and LOTS of ping pong balls his parents frantically collected for him...and they were pleading with him, why did you need all these ping pong balls? And the young man sighs and says..."Because...ugh...because...ugh...because I, I... " and he dies. The end...lol. It drove everybody crazy. He was good at telling it but usually had to be drunk to tell it right.

Rich -- I gotta agree with you. By the same token, I love arguments that may not entirely make sense. Not because they're laughable. But because they often do indeed raise issues that are worthwhile to discuss.

I agree with Ed...I've learned what I don't know about stuff by arguing, learned what I do know by arguing, and learned why another person might really see something differently than I do by arguing...not attacking or being vicious or trying to corner ever If, vs. When or whatever, but by batting ideas back and forth. I've done it my whole life without vengeance or personal attacks. But one thing that drives me crazy personally is to have to repeatedly explain...yeah, could be I said When and shoulda said IF...could be I shoulda said apparently instead of obviously...could be I didn't adequately define my terms, etc. I don't like to just keep going in circles which avoid the gist of the topic and just irritate me to death. By the way, this is how I spend my life 24/7 now anyway, dealing with dementia in the household...you explain and explain and in the middle of the explanation get sidetracked from the gist of it by something parsed out of one phrase of one sentence...spend your whole day doing that and by the end of the day you're ready to be sent back to the e r for panic symptoms that are killing you. I certainly don't like that sort of discussion...it's like dealing with an alcoholic...you just have to wait it out until they sober up enough to understand the meaning of what you're saying and respond to THAT, not to YOU....not give you a diagnosis of who you are and what you think, but bounce back another perspective, opinion, etc. So then your turn is bouncing back again, not defending your previous statement, which tends to sidetrack the whole dang thing and drive you completely nuts. Other than that, yeah...it's why I studied philosophy in college...the whole thing of pitching ideas back and forth, being right and being wrong and thinking it over again...of course it's a terrible thing to study because you never get a good job...lol...still...lol...I didn't know that at the time.