I did a power of work on the Quartet yesterday making templates, forms and jigs. A good start to the project and a long long way to go. There’s nothing tangible to show yet but it won’t be long. I’m looking forward to getting another full day in next Saturday (fingers crossed).

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Originally posted by NCnotes

Cool, So not only do they know the "Humors of Westmeath", they have upped me with a couple of tunes I've never heard of!

Hope you had a fun session! :-)

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Great session as always small group of players. I was the only one on fiddle. I brought in a bass that I've been working on which was serious fun to play. A cello tuned FCGA. That instrument deserves its own separate thred. 

Unfortunately I got a call to work yesterday all day and into the early morning. So nothing is going to happen this weekend. Just as well I set a one year timeline on this project
Friday nights session great again with low number of muso’s just John on guitar, Liam on pipes and we had Conor Fury drop in. Conor is a member of the famous Fury family and boy can he play the banjo fast! I couldn’t keep up with him on most tunes on the tenor fiddle so I played my new cello bass and B&C accordion most of the night. Conor was showing off his fancy light show banjo he rigged up for Paddies Day.

Well I took a little break from working on guitars and bouzoukis and made some progress in the last few days. The first wake-up call was that a 9” body is too big for a practical fiddle of this design. So I started over on an 8” plan.
I cut out templates on hard cardboard for pieces of the top, back and rib

Next step was to make some forms. These are cut out of old discarded plastic electoral signs.
The plastic forms make a good firm way to hold the shape and nicely flexible for clamping and stripping out.

So there is an outer frame to hold the top and back surfaces. Then as you can see here there is an inner strengthening ring on the underside that fits inside the rib to hold the top into position. Then pop it back into the form to add an outer strengthening ring on the underside.

Two views of completed frame. Top and bottom.

Now put the rib together 6 pieces in 6 layers. 8” outer diameter and 5mm thickness.

Top frame sitting in position on the rib. Perfect snug fit.

Now to fix the top sound board to the frame and clamp. 2.5mm aircraft grade birch plywood. The back has 1.6mm birch plywood, I chose to make the back thinner due to the fact that it doesn't have to carry the weight of the bridge, plus it's easy to swap out different thicknesses for tops and backs when they'll be bolted on. The Viola version is planned to have a 3mm top and a 2.5mm back on the same 8"rib with an extra 2 layers high. 

Bridge position. You can see now why the 9” body doesn’t work. There is over an inch overlap of the top and back over the body so even though it is 8 inches the vibrating surface area is over 9 inches. And that’s going to be times two!

Neck template.

Neck pieces ready for cutting. I forgot to take photos of the pieces after cutting them. And then when I started gluing I had to act quickly so I’ll try and get photos of this process on the next instrument. Basically it is a 5 piece laminated neck of Three 5mm bamboo and two layers of 1mm walnut strip sandwiched in between. The walnut follows the grain of the bamboo from the body to the nut and then runs at 90 degrees to grain of the bamboo from the nut out through the pegbox and scroll. This is essential for structural integrity for the scroll. In clamps overnight so we’ll see more progress tomorrow.

Wow MartyJoe, this is cool to see the behind-the-scenes making of an instrument! ARe you making a round instrument like a banjo?

haha, would probably stop when I’m within a mile of the Dublin city limits…?

NIce session pic! we rarely get banjo players (most banjo players around here seem to play american style folk, 5-string). “Fury” seems like a great last name for a guy who plays fast and furious. For me it’s the whistle players that leave me in the dust :-) I’m like, I gotta drag this bow up and down, wait up!

Yes. The body is round but it is very different to a banjo. The rim on a banjo is more than double the thickness of the rib on this violin. The skin head on a banjo is stretched down over the rim or a tone ring that sits on the rim. The sound board on this violin is attached to a frame that cantilevers over the edge of the rib. Then the top and back will be bolted together so when they are forced towards each other the cantilever action forces them onwards which adds tension to the surface. This tension alleviates any need for bracing in a guitar top and it also transfers vibration extremely efficiently to the back via the bolts hence why I think it should work well for violin and alleviate the need for a sound post. To compensate for a bass bar I need to be careful to get the mass of the frame right : too light - hollow sound, too heavy - loose brightness (higher frequencies). The great thing about the work that I’ve done to adapt the concept to suit violin is that I can put some of those ideas back into improving the guitar design. As always the 2nd and 3rd instruments are going to be better and I’ve given myself a year to crack it. No session in town for Good Friday all pubs in Ireland close Good Friday and Christmas Day.

That's a mean mess o'clamps, Martyjoe! Can't wait to see how this shapes up!

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Originally posted by JonD

That's a mean mess o'clamps, Martyjoe! Can't wait to see how this shapes up!

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There's no such thing as too many clamps when you're making musical instruments. I generally like to make them in bunches of six at a time. Some people are blown away with the amount of clamps I have in the workshop and there are times when I need more. 

Took the clamps off the center section of the neck. It was clamped to a granite table top by the way, a great way to keeping necks perfectly straight. Now you can see the walnut strips. Then clean it up a bit. Add another two laminations of 5mm bamboo and reclamp. It’s wide enough at the nut and scroll so tomorrow I’ll add more layers to where the fingerboard widens out. I’m starting to think that maybe I should buy a fingerboard and nut for it, I usually make them but don’t do them in black. They are going to be ugly enough already black fingerboards could make it an easier to find a Quartet to be prepared to play them.

Well if I lived anywhere near, I'd be eager to try them out! :-) Personally I don't care what color the fingerboard is, as long as it works...:-)

(in past life have played in string quartets - will your instruments correspond to the usual 2 violins, 1 viola, 1 cello in range/strings? it may be easier to find precomposed music that way...but otherwise people could just make up and adapt stuff, which could be fun and creative )

Yes. The usual formula, 2 violins, viola and cello. So this one (or the first successful one) will be 2nd violin. It will be followed by the Viola which will also be an 8” but (obviously) a longer string length, deeper body and it will probably have different thickness top and back. I think the Viola will be interesting because the bridge position will be same as for a regular violin so it should be comfortable to play for a violinist. Once I have it nailed then I’m going to finish off on the 1st violin and cello. I expect the cello to be the easiest (famous last words).

It turned out that the pubs were open last night so the session was on (yippee !). We were without our piper Liam so to fill his shoes Colm Keane stepped up to the plate. Colm usually spends his week playing fiddle in the Temple Bar (tourist) district of Dublin with our guitarist and banjo extraordinaire John Byrne. There was also a fella that playing spoons which was annoying at times. I played a small bit of the tenor Viola but mostly flute and box.

Here’s Colm and John doing their thing. You know it’s a special thing when you look around and see other musicians in the crowd intently listening every week.

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Originally posted by martyjoe

Yes. The usual formula, 2 violins, viola and cello. So this one (or the first successful one) will be 2nd violin. It will be followed by the Viola which will also be an 8” but (obviously) a longer string length, deeper body and it will probably have different thickness top and back. I think the Viola will be interesting because the bridge position will be same as for a regular violin so it should be comfortable to play for a violinist. Once I have it nailed then I’m going to finish off on the 1st violin and cello. I expect the cello to be the easiest (famous last words).

It turned out that the pubs were open last night so the session was on (yippee !). We were without our piper Liam so to fill his shoes Colm Keane stepped up to the plate. Colm usually spends his week playing fiddle in the Temple Bar (tourist) district of Dublin with our guitarist and banjo extraordinaire John Byrne. There was also a fella that playing spoons which was annoying at times. I played a small bit of the tenor Viola but mostly flute and box. I really need to make myself a better Tenor Viola it's great to play along with others in a session I can hear it clearly and it adds to the overall sound but I can't seem to take the lead on it. It needs more bite , sharpness or definition. 

Here’s Colm and John doing their thing. You know it’s a special thing when you look around and see other musicians in the crowd intently listening every week.

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Here’s a banjo-viola made in Germany in the late 19th century. This one has skin on its top and back, but it’s still here to be seen in a museum.

metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/503754

I’ve seen a lot of novelty violins working in shops over the years.

the Temple Bar - You play with some heavy hitters, Marty!

Hmm wondering - WIll your instruments use soundposts?

Re: “I expect the cello to be easiest (famous last words)” …LOL it will be interesting! Big change in size!

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Originally posted by NCnotes

the Temple Bar - You play with some heavy hitters, Marty!

Hmm wondering - WIll your instruments use soundposts?

Re: “I expect the cello to be easiest (famous last words)” …LOL it will be interesting! Big change in size!

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Yes John and Colm are something special so is Liam sometimes I have to pinch myself with some of the music I get to experience.

No soundpost or bassbar. As we know the soundpost is in tension between the top and back and it is important  for the (treble) tone of the violin. These violins will have the top and back bolted together via 8 bolts. These bolts should serve the purpose of the soundpost but rather than compression they will transfer the vibrations under tension to the back. They will also put both top and back under tension. This is what makes my guitar design so loud because you have a round sound board which is the most efficient shape (the first choice for any speaker is round) without any need for bracing and a mechanical connection to another round soundboard via the bolts. A really interesting but obvious  thing that I learned from the guitar is the effect of the sound by the proximity of the bridge to the edge of the soundboard. The closer to the edge the brighter the tone. Guitars generally don't behave this way due to the bracing under the soundboard. Imagine a drum (bodhran) but with a wooden top. Tap it in the center and you hear a fairly mellow wooly tone. As you bring the tapping away from the center the tone gets clearer definition. Keep taping closer towards the edge and the tone becomes very bright. This means I have to work out the best compromise for tone I want to achieve. It doesn't matter which side of center the bridge placement is, what matters is the distance from center.Center is a terrible choice by the way. We have two identical choices! So we choose the side that makes it possible to bow the fiddle without restriction. So the bridge has to be placed towards the neck so the bow clears the edge of the soundboard. I think I've worked out all the theory. It works on a guitar. Now I'm going try to get to work on a violin, exciting stuff!

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Here’s a banjo-viola made in Germany in the late 19th century. This one has skin on its top and back, but it’s still here to be seen in a museum.

metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/503754

I’ve seen a lot of novelty violins working in shops over the years.

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Very interesting. And very definitely a novelty!