dsreiner - Posted - 04/16/2009:  18:24:33

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I was reminded of this crooked and deliberate tune by a recent discussion. I'm on fiddle, with my friend Pete Anick (a columnist for Fiddler magazine) on guitar, playing a version of Wild Rose of the Mountain I learned from J. P. Fraley's LP of the same name. It's at http://www.fiddlehangout.com/myhang...c.asp?id=385

Dave

Co-author, Oldtime Fiddling Across America
Author, Anthology of Fiddle Styles
Genial host of Fiddle Hell Massachusetts (next Nov 13-15, 2009)
Dad and fiddler for Reiner Family Band

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Edited by - dsreiner on 04/16/2009 18:25:45

yawnofthedead - Posted - 04/16/2009:  18:55:49

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well done!

David M. - Posted - 04/17/2009:  14:45:49

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That's a good tune. One of my favorite fiddle albums of all time. Nicely played, Dave.

-------------------------------------------------------
"I wonder how the old folks are at home..."

DougD - Posted - 04/17/2009:  15:06:07

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Real nice, Dave. I think J. P. played the first phrases a little differently, at least in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mo63u5b3z4 (I mean the B above the high A).
I don't know if he always played it that way or not.

dsreiner - Posted - 04/17/2009:  18:10:04

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It's true that J. P. put in an extra twiddle or two in the A part in the 1985 video. Sometimes that happens when you work out a twin fiddle version. Perhaps Aly Bain influenced him :-) But the version most people learned was from J. P.'s 1973 album entitled Wild Rose of the Mountain, which is where I got it, note for note. Skip Gorman later recorded this same exact version (available on the Rounder Fiddle LP/CD).

BTW, the 1973 album was re-released as a CD with 14 additional tracks recorded in 1999 - I highly recommend this re-release!

Dave

Co-author, Oldtime Fiddling Across America
Author, Anthology of Fiddle Styles
Genial host of Fiddle Hell Massachusetts (next Nov 13-15, 2009)
Dad and fiddler for Reiner Family Band

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Edited by - dsreiner on 04/17/2009 18:10:49

DougD - Posted - 04/17/2009:  20:20:17

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Hey Dave, I finally found a way to hear that cut from the LP and of course you're right. Funny we're on that Rounder Fiddle CD too, but I don't even have a copy.
Aly could be a bad influence sometimes ;)

fiddler59 - Posted - 04/18/2009:  06:08:28

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Dave I really enjoy all your mp3's you have posted....I've even learned a few of them we have not heard of down hear in GA
Hope to meet you some day and do some fiddlin' (I love to play harmonies to other peoples melodies). The only thing better than fiddlin is twin fiddlin. Well I take that last statement back but I won't go there !!

David Blackmon

Fiddlin with peoples heads !!!

woodwiz - Posted - 04/18/2009:  06:16:23

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quote:

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Originally posted by fiddler59

Dave I really enjoy all your mp3's you have posted....I've even learned a few of them we have not heard of down hear in GA
Hope to meet you some day and do some fiddlin' (I love to play harmonies to other peoples melodies). The only thing better than fiddlin is twin fiddlin. Well I take that last statement back but I won't go there !!

David Blackmon

Fiddlin with peoples heads !!!

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See if you can make it up to Fiddle Hell in November. It's crowded, but worth the trip.

Michael R

www.kcstrings.com
"You''ll love the way you sound"

"Thank you for the wonderful violin you made. I''ve used it on every show I''ve played since I''ve got it." John Hartford

FiddlinCol - Posted - 04/18/2009:  06:46:07

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What really tickled me about this tune at the time, was the way the pickup had a G# in the line but the melody uses a G nat.
It sort of implies an E7th or dominant chord for the pickup and a Mixo scale for the melody. At the time I was told that this is a standard trick with Old Time music.

Also Dave , was there a reason to call it a "crooked and deliberate" tune?
I've not heard that description before.

Cheers Col.

"A man thats got nothin to say is a liar!"....Ole Roadhog, Lester Moran.
"The Dude abides"....The Dude.

dsreiner - Posted - 04/18/2009:  12:18:33

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quote:

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Originally posted by fiddler59

Dave I really enjoy all your mp3's you have posted....I've even learned a few of them we have not heard of down here in GA
Hope to meet you some day and do some fiddlin' (I love to play harmonies to other peoples melodies). The only thing better than fiddlin is twin fiddlin. Well I take that last statement back but I won't go there !!

David Blackmon

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Thanks DB! (And thanks for testing out my 5-string to help Barry Dudley out -- I'm still learning how to handle it.)

As Michael (woodwiz) said, come up and join us at Fiddle Hell in November...

Dave

Co-author, Oldtime Fiddling Across America
Author, Anthology of Fiddle Styles
Genial host of Fiddle Hell Massachusetts (next Nov 13-15, 2009)
Dad and fiddler for Reiner Family Band

dsreiner - Posted - 04/18/2009:  12:38:46

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quote:

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Originally posted by FiddlinCol

What really tickled me about this tune at the time, was the way the pickup had a G# in the line but the melody uses a G nat.
It sort of implies an E7th or dominant chord for the pickup and a Mixo scale for the melody. At the time I was told that this is a standard trick with Old Time music.

Also Dave , was there a reason to call it a "crooked and deliberate" tune?
I've not heard that description before.

Cheers Col.

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While the chords in this are A and E7, the G# in the pickup is just a passing tone as you roll up to the A, so I wouldn't use a 5 chord (dominant) in the pickup. In fact, Pete doesn't on guitar.

The A part does have a strong G in the melody (implying an A mixolydian mode), but the guitar stays on an A chord during this G note. Whether or not the chord tracks the G note (as it does in other tunes like Kitchen Girl), a 1 - 5 - 1 ending is indeed common in Southern oldtime against a mixolydian mode, as an alternative to a 1 - b7 -1 ending.

"Crooked" just means there are some extra beats in this tune, in both A and B parts. If I had to count it, I'd count 1 - 2, 1 - 2, 1 - 2, 1, 1 - 2 etc. "Deliberate" means slower than dance tempo, with some pauses to savor the long notes. J. P. played this at about 88 foot taps per minute; dance tempo might be 112 or more.

Dave


Co-author, Oldtime Fiddling Across America
Author, Anthology of Fiddle Styles
Genial host of Fiddle Hell Massachusetts (next Nov 13-15, 2009)
Dad and fiddler for Reiner Family Band