learn2turn - Posted - 12/29/2024:  05:52:03

I just bought a used fiddle and have only had it a few days. I noticed the E string has a tiny tube around the string where it goes over the bridge. I also noticed that on other fiddles I've seen in online tutorials. I would assume that helps the string sit in the groove of the bridge. I'm curious how they get there. Does that come on the string? Is it an accessory you add?

I'll want to replace the strings on my used fiddle soon so i want to learn if I should install those.

Here's a link to a video showing the tubes on the A and E strings.

-K

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/29/2024:  07:45:12

They come with the string. After almost 30 years, I'm still not sure about them, have heard several things.

They keep the string from digging into the bridge, that is the reason I'm going to go with. I don't think they are necessary.



Strings on the fiddle are a little different than guitar, they aren't changed nearly as often. Do you already play an instrument? The fiddle is a little touchy when it comes to diving in and being your own luthier so don't go wild with thinking it needs improving or anything, especially if you don't yet know how to play it .

The most important thing, whether worth $10,000 or $50, is how it is set up and a luthier can improve the playability. That said, depending on who owned it previously and when whether it's been played in recent history, it might already be set up pretty well. 

Have fun, embrace the noise, enjoy the lifetime journey.

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/29/2024:  07:47:15

Also, violin strings are a subject of great debate and discussion among violin players.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 12/29/2024:  12:36:51

I've actually always preferred the tone I've gotten from tubed E strings. No matter which of my fiddles I've done the comparison on. In any event, memory tells me that you can easily test any tonal difference by simply loosening the E string enough to be able to slide the tube to a spot between the bridge and tailpiece.

Edited by - Lonesome Fiddler on 12/29/2024 12:39:30

learn2turn - Posted - 12/29/2024:  12:52:24

The fiddle is an ML-85 I bought off shopgoodwill for less than $200 with tax and shipping. It's a 2022; some parents likely bought if for a kid through a school rental program, the kid lost interest in a year, and they donated it. It's this outfit -- musicarts.com/strobel-ml-85-st...in0292013 From what I understand M&A way over prices their instruments so parent paying for a rental program think they are getting a good deal, but I figure for what I paid, it was a good deal. I don't detect anything specifically wrong with the setup although the pegs slip quite a bit when I tuned it up. I think after a few weeks, I'll order some new strings, maybe a carbon bow. Just don't get any mojo at all from the fiberglass bow. I just gives me the vibe of plastic.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/29/2024:  18:15:48

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Originally posted by learn2turn

Does that come on the string? Is it an accessory you add?

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String tubes exist so that thin strings like the E or a steel A won't cut into the bridge grooved as quickly -- but only if there isn't a bridge parchment in place. The tubes are included with those strings, but any decent luthier will discard them when cutting a bridge in favor of a parchment. String tubes are tone killers and they often don't even work anywhere near as well. Even the string manufacturers admit that the tube has to be positioned in a specific way for it to sound at all decent. And the sound with the parchment is consistently better.

String tubes can be used as a stopgap measure if a string is slightly low (it'll raise the height .25-.5 mm depending on the material). This can be improved upon by installing an extra parchment instead, even more so by replacing the bridge with one of the right height. 

wrench13 - Posted - 12/29/2024:  19:35:38

Rich, I'll bite. What is the proper way to install these tubes? When I was using SuperSensitives, which came with them. I had most of the tube behind the bridge, trying to keep minimal, if any, sticking out on the front face of the bridge.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/29/2024:  19:39:19

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Originally posted by wrench13

Rich, I'll bite. What is the proper way to install these tubes? When I was using SuperSensitives, which came with them. I had most of the tube behind the bridge, trying to keep minimal, if any, sticking out on the front face of the bridge.

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I think it's Thomastik that says the tube cannot extend more than 1 mm above the bridge. That does help so that the string isn't muted so much, although it's still not as good as a parchment. 

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 12/30/2024:  05:20:12

Interesting discussion peeps. The 1 mm comment I had not heard. Thanks. R/

Brian Wood - Posted - 12/30/2024:  09:07:58

I've always found tubes or parchment unnecessary. Is a piece of plastic or glued parchment actually harder than maple anyway? Regardless, you can wait to see if a groove under the E strings starts to show and, if it does, then add something.

If you aren't using the plastic sleeve, take it off because it can vibrate and cause noise on the tail of the string.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/30/2024:  10:48:02

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

I've always found tubes or parchment unnecessary. Is a piece of plastic or glued parchment actually harder than maple anyway? Regardless, you can wait to see if a groove under the E strings starts to show and, if it does, then add something.

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Parchment isn't meant to be harder than maple. It's there to resist wear from the string. Parchment does this remarkably well. And because parchment is used in instrument making and is known to be a good material for tonal uses, there's no concern of it hampering sound. 

 

I don't think it's appropriate to send a bridge out of the shop and tell a customer to wait for it to fail before doing what should have been done in the first place. E strings cut into wood quickly, even top quality seasoned maple. As soon as the string has sunk lower than half its diameter into the groove, the sound suffers. E strings are thin, so it only takes a small amount of wear for this to occur without a parchment. 

 

Parchment is not very expensive and it's easily obtained, so I don't see good reason to avoid it. By spending a dime (or so) I can save the player hundreds. Why not be a friend to the player?

Brian Wood - Posted - 12/30/2024:  12:15:56

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

I've always found tubes or parchment unnecessary. Is a piece of plastic or glued parchment actually harder than maple anyway? Regardless, you can wait to see if a groove under the E strings starts to show and, if it does, then add something.

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Parchment isn't meant to be harder than maple. It's there to resist wear from the string. Parchment does this remarkably well. And because parchment is used in instrument making and is known to be a good material for tonal uses, there's no concern of it hampering sound. 

 

I don't think it's appropriate to send a bridge out of the shop and tell a customer to wait for it to fail before doing what should have been done in the first place. E strings cut into wood quickly, even top quality seasoned maple. As soon as the string has sunk lower than half its diameter into the groove, the sound suffers. E strings are thin, so it only takes a small amount of wear for this to occur without a parchment. 

 

Parchment is not very expensive and it's easily obtained, so I don't see good reason to avoid it. By spending a dime (or so) I can save the player hundreds. Why not be a friend to the player?

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You overstate the need. On the other hand, no harm in using it.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/30/2024:  17:13:07

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

I've always found tubes or parchment unnecessary. Is a piece of plastic or glued parchment actually harder than maple anyway? Regardless, you can wait to see if a groove under the E strings starts to show and, if it does, then add something.

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Parchment isn't meant to be harder than maple. It's there to resist wear from the string. Parchment does this remarkably well. And because parchment is used in instrument making and is known to be a good material for tonal uses, there's no concern of it hampering sound. 

 

I don't think it's appropriate to send a bridge out of the shop and tell a customer to wait for it to fail before doing what should have been done in the first place. E strings cut into wood quickly, even top quality seasoned maple. As soon as the string has sunk lower than half its diameter into the groove, the sound suffers. E strings are thin, so it only takes a small amount of wear for this to occur without a parchment. 

 

Parchment is not very expensive and it's easily obtained, so I don't see good reason to avoid it. By spending a dime (or so) I can save the player hundreds. Why not be a friend to the player?

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You overstate the need. On the other hand, no harm in using it.

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If the need wasn't that great, parchments wouldn't be in universal use. Nothing on the violin is superfluous. Every luthier who does good setup work will recommend parchment without hesitation.

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 12/30/2024 17:13:31

TuneWeaver - Posted - 12/31/2024:  05:33:09

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Originally posted by carlb

quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

They keep the string from digging into the bridge, that is the reason I'm going to go with. I don't think they are necessary.

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Exactly. However, I learned from my fiddle doctor to use a small piece of skin ( I use it from an excess piece of banjo skin). You cut a small piece. soak it in cold water, press to remove excess water using a towel and then paste over the E string indent with a simple glue (I use Sobo). Hold it in place with something simple, like scotch tape or or other simple tape, until glue dries (use a small piece of wax paper if you're worried about the tape sticking as the glue dries).

Previous discussion

fiddlehangout.com/topic/59020

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Thanks for clearing that up Carl.  I used some banjo head material on a fiddle bridge but Larry didn't like the hole I made  in his banjo head.. I need a plan B.........Happy New Year everyone..!!

Brian Wood - Posted - 12/31/2024:  08:54:16

 

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You overstate the need. On the other hand, no harm in using it.

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If the need wasn't that great, parchments wouldn't be in universal use. Nothing on the violin is superfluous. Every luthier who does good setup work will recommend parchment without hesitation.

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Okay. Happy New Year!

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/31/2024:  09:44:32

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

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Okay. Happy New Year!

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Happy New Year. Ring out, wild bells!