p1cklef1sh - Posted - 09/14/2012:  04:59:19

any of you ladies or manladies out there play with acrylic nails. My poor lady student wears them and Ive explained the virtues of having shorter nails. Although she desires to play the violin she is finding it hard to part with her glam ways. long nails on her bow hand and short ones on her other apparently causes an apocalyptic imbalance in the force! I try to be sympathetic but really? So, show me a softer side to help me help her.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 09/14/2012:  05:00:54

Can't do it...the nails have gotta go! Playing fiddle is way more guts than glamour! Only Dolly Partin can get away with this.

modon - Posted - 09/14/2012:  06:05:57

Amen Peggy! I just ruined a set of expensive (for me) strings because I didnt keep my nails clipped. I do however... sometimes resort to fake nails on my right hand when my real ones get worn down. But thats so I can play clawhammer banjo.
I'm surprised some enterprising cosmetologist hasnt come up with 'detachable fashion nails'. They sure seem to have everything else on the market nowadays.

hayesdt - Posted - 09/14/2012:  08:04:18

Can't imagine playing fiddle with acrylic nails.  How would one be able to get the fleshy tip of the finger to touch the fingerboard with sufficient pressure and without badly scratching the fingerboard?

And as far as other instruments, I play lots of clawhammer banjo and prefer the middle rather than index finger for downstroking.  Last summer I badly broke off both nails a few days before an important gig.  I went to a nail salon and had an acrylic painted on my remaining middle nail.  At first, the acrylic played really well -- sounded great.  But as the nail grew out, I found that the real nail was actually thinner and weaker than before.  Even after a full year, that nail isn't back to normal and has a tendency to split and break more easily.  From now on, if I break it, I'll either just use my bare middle finger or perhaps even a turned-around fingerpick for that finger. 

Some banjo and fingerstyle guitar players swear by them, and more power to them if they work, but for my fingernails I don't think I'll try them again.

Edited by - hayesdt on 09/14/2012 08:05:08

modon - Posted - 09/14/2012:  08:30:41

I've also learned to use all my fingers to downpick for clawhammer... even the pinky will work with a little practise. Thats something I picked up in desperation , breaking my middle nail at the worst possable time. I havent had the problem you described haysdt. The fake nails work ok for me if I have time to glue one on.

Peghead - Posted - 09/14/2012:  09:03:05

The girl has her priorities, who can blame her? (how's that for a softer side) Don't fight it, give her the lessons, take the money. Who knows?  

Edited by - Peghead on 09/14/2012 09:18:48

boxbow - Posted - 09/14/2012:  09:12:22

Teach her tunes that are all open strings.

I suggest she take up bagpipes.

Diane G - Posted - 09/14/2012:  09:27:14

Hi. I have a student who is 70 (now), that I have been working with for about a year and half.....She had acrylic nails that were of medium length and she became frustrated and upset at her intonation and soon realized that they had to be cut shorter and she squared them off on the tips with did help. It did take her about 6 months to realize this (we continued to work on various aspects and I supported her with my teaching trying to find ways but nothing worked) and that's when we made a decision as teacher and student to TRY the short, squared nail to see how it went for her. I had asked her what goals she had for learning and playing the violin. She just wanted to be able to play simple tunes and accompany her husband with his guitar. She is doing better now that the nails are shorter but they still interfer and she will never be a player with great intonation....like Peghead says....the girl has her priorities! I would ask her to try a shorter set on both hands, the next time she has her nails done.
Otherwise, as a teacher just suport her the best you and work with it, if she becomes frustrated...remind her to TRY a shorter nail.
Good luck...as teachers we do run into some road blocks and need to learn to work around them so to speak.
Stay tuned. Diane

Kruger Bear - Posted - 09/14/2012:  10:26:28

Quote(She just wanted to be able to play simple tunes and accompany her husband with his guitar)

I use a Super Sensitive rectangular pad over the chin rest on my fiddles and mount the fiddle with the pad pulled into the pocket of my shoulder, much like mounting a shotgun for skeet shooting. I also use the pancake hold on the fiddle neck and most of the time press the strings down with the pad of my finger and not the tip. Just played a simple version of Angeline the Baker and could have had inch long nails with no problem. I do keep my left hand nails clipped short though for ukulele playing.

Jude

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 09/14/2012:  10:46:30

Dwight Diller recommends just dabbing superglue onto your Clawhammer nail contact point(s) if you need extra nail strength. I haven't tried it, myself, but he did it when I was in WV with him and his nail had a crack in it. In about three seconds he was ready for some powerful clawhammerin!

eric marten - Posted - 09/14/2012:  11:20:30

Unless I completely read incorrectly the original post, I think most of you have missed the point.  She has short nails on her left hand and long acrylic nails on her right hand.  That should not be a problem for playing fiddle.  I've had students in similar situations.

Diane G - Posted - 09/14/2012:  11:46:17

Your so right Eric. Thanks. Diane in SoCal

fiddlepogo - Posted - 09/14/2012:  12:03:17

If a female (of any age) shows an interest in playing the fiddle or guitar, and asks questions about how to go about it, I often ask first thing-

"Is cutting your fingernails short an issue with you?"

If it is an issue, they really aren't committed enough to the task of learning the instrument to show any real prospect of long term success.

Now, with HARP nails would actually be useful, and with hammered dulcimer or marimba, not an issue.

Nyckelharpa (Swedish keyed fiddle) would work as well, as would hurdy-gurdy... or HARMONICA.

That last one would play havoc with the lipstick they chose to match the acrylic nails, though.

Peghead - Posted - 09/14/2012:  12:35:15

  Do I really have to cut them?

Edited by - Peghead on 09/14/2012 12:37:18

DougD - Posted - 09/14/2012:  13:56:36

Eric and Diane - I'm not so sure. It may be that the very thought of short nails on her left hand is enough to cause "an apocalyptic imbalance in the force."

paulinefiddle - Posted - 09/14/2012:  17:06:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peghead

  Do I really have to cut them?

 

---

OMG!

bryfiddle2 - Posted - 09/14/2012:  17:15:04

Left hand nails must be short enough to stop the strings with the fingertip. So say the gods of fiddle mechanics. I tell my students that if they must have long nails on the left hand that they should get removable "glam" nails but keep those fingernails trimmed! On the topic of clawhammer nails, i have glued my fingernails back together with super glue more than once. It really works! The other thing I sometimes have to do is sand down my guitar calluses on the left hand like my classical guitar buddy does. They get so hard that it makes a harsh sound on the fiddle, not to mention the problems with intonation.... Bruce

paulinefiddle - Posted - 09/14/2012:  17:32:10

P1cklef1sh, some times you have to stop being soft and lay down the law.  Offer her the alternative of removeable glam nails for her left hand.  Final offer.

p1cklef1sh - Posted - 09/14/2012:  18:11:26

OMG, here I thought I wasnt soft enough! God help the lady taking lessons from some of you. Im sure its all in good fun. She has a finger angle so far that is halfway between pad and tip. its her left hand "hold" and thumb orientation thats really what I am working on. Just thought Id throw the acrylic nails out there to see the responses. I am gonna teach her regardless but its not about the money, $20.00 for 45 min. Its because she bought the violin and really wants to learn it. she has the passion and has already demonstrated the ability to follow through with practice. She is on a suzuki track and is doing real good for her first time. Ive splained to her that lots of old timers pad the strings and do just fine. although I encourage more of a tip approach for versatility and accuracy, and speed and about a million other good reasons for it.

Diane G - Posted - 09/14/2012:  21:08:41

I have my students view these videos ......left hand hold, playing with the finger tips, and bow hold on r.toddehle.com
This guy is great and his videos are very good...all free. It might give you, as a teacher, some ideas for teaching...something you might not have thought about..
Stay tuned and good luck. Diane in SoCal

p1cklef1sh - Posted - 09/14/2012:  23:59:29

I love Todd! I do so much reading of the various sites, magazines, blogs, ezines.....good lord everyone has an opinion. I also like theviolinsite.com and violinmasterclass.com. violinist.com etc...

Peghead - Posted - 09/15/2012:  04:54:35

If she plays on the pads, she'll have to bring the heel of her hand up to change the finger angle and clear her nails. If life gives you flour make pancakes. Keep monitoring her comfort level and be sure she's not stressing her wrist, especially  later when the 4th finger is needed.  Unless she has very long fingers, expect intonation issues with the reach of the little finger. That may be enough to entice her to make some adjustments later on, but it's only harder. There are work arounds too. It's better to start with the standard form and go from there, there are plenty of great players who do differently.  

Percy - Posted - 09/15/2012:  06:52:04

Have you thought about a small "group lesson" with one or two other students who've been playing about the same amount of time -- but with short nails -- so she can actually see and hear how her nails are holding her back? Don't preach about it -- just say you want to try some duet or trio stuff -- and maybe she'll just notice the difference in tone and how much easier it is them for them... she may even ask why they are better... and let the other students show her. Sometimes peers have much more influence then teachers do!

boxbow - Posted - 09/15/2012:  07:10:59

Just tell her that the beatings shall resume until discipline is fully restored.

p1cklef1sh - Posted - 09/15/2012:  10:01:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by Percy

Have you thought about a small "group lesson" with one or two other students who've been playing about the same amount of time -- but with short nails -- so she can actually see and hear how her nails are holding her back? Don't preach about it -- just say you want to try some duet or trio stuff -- and maybe she'll just notice the difference in tone and how much easier it is them for them... she may even ask why they are better... and let the other students show her. Sometimes peers have much more influence then teachers do!

---

 she is the founding member of her two member group. her and a friend from work are sharing the hour. She can see but some women gots to be purty! Im not pushy, I just show her my technique and explain the whys.

Freischutz - Posted - 09/16/2012:  08:39:27

There is a girl at my HS that allegedly says she plays "banjo, violin, guitar", real nice little girl, but her nails are like 1" long. I'll believe it when I see it, ha ha.

If a girl cares so much about her nails that she is reluctant to cut them in order to play an instrument, I'd say the violin is not for her if fashion means that much to her. I'm at "that age" and I have no nails at all nor have ever cared to grow them. This is one of the controversial things about female musicians... oh, some of those aspiring ones care so much about their appearance. Sometimes you have to give things up if you really love music.  

Try vibrato with nails, we'll see how that works out. 

Susan H - Posted - 09/16/2012:  09:04:05

I'd be wondering how serious one is with long nails who says they want to play any stringed instrument.

p1cklef1sh - Posted - 09/16/2012:  15:49:28

well, I feel she didnt consider them when she decided to learn. I think her other musical experience is with a flute. apparently nails do fine with flutes. chicks man....

Diane G - Posted - 09/16/2012:  16:18:10

You do need shorter nails with a flute...maybe that's why she THOUGHT, ahhhhhhhh...I'll try playing the violin...it can't be that hard????? All you can do as a teacher is help to support her and be as creative as you can. Maybe suggesting that the next time she has the nails done to make them a bit smaller on the left hand and she will notice a big difference in her intonation. As a teacher you you can suggest that.
Good luck...Diane in SoCal

paulinefiddle - Posted - 09/16/2012:  21:47:06

I've seen old time fiddlers with slightly long nails play on the finger pads and sound great, but I would not recommend learning that way.  Have you suggested removeable acrylic nails for her?  I remember that one time, when I was a kid, my violin teacher made me cut my slightly long nails at a lesson.  You can't do that now.  Her parents would raise holy h*ll and find her a new violin teacher.