bj - Posted - 06/25/2012:  08:42:43

This video spells it out better than a bunch of dialog ever could!

VIDEO: Twin Sisters & The Boys of Bluehill - Matt Brown & Jessica Ziegler (click to view)

fiddlepogo - Posted - 06/25/2012:  08:54:31

Yes, ultimately the proof IS in the pudding,

Good video- thanks for posting that!

NCarolinaFiddler - Posted - 06/25/2012:  08:55:19

Very nice. Thanks for the video.

cornfed - Posted - 06/25/2012:  10:22:35

Very interesting clip, BJ. In analysing my own playing,I  think that I fall between these two versions, just about 1/2 way. Not nearly as ornamented as hers, but much more rhythmic (?) than his. My tempo is much more like his, but I have had limited opportunity to play for those who can actually dance a hornpipe. Almost all of my dancers have been contras and squares It calls for her tempo. more comparisons like this could be very enlightening.

GeeDubya - Posted - 06/25/2012:  10:58:51

Nice comparison of two related tunes, although the slight lack of sync between sound and video is annoying for studying the bowing closely.  Jessica's tempo is still too fast for dancing a hornpipe, (even a bit speedy for a schottische, which is the New England dance that would employ Boys of Blue Hill) but a nice speed for listening.  

fiddlepogo - Posted - 06/25/2012:  11:40:35

quote:

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Originally posted by cornfed

 but much more rhythmic (?) than his.

---

Matt IS rather smooth and laid back for an Old Time fiddler- not too hard to find rhythmically more aggressive examples- note his VERY fluid wrist motion.  He got instruction from Bruce Molsky at some point, and Bruce is usually rhythmically more aggressive in his playing- at least in on-line examples.

But in every other way, I'd say Matt's playing is quite representative of an Old Time approach.

fiddle and banjo player - Posted - 06/25/2012:  15:17:46

Very good video - thanks for sharing!!

OTJunky - Posted - 06/25/2012:  15:53:59

It is a good video and I enjoyed it.

A question though. I've never thought of "Boys of Bluehill" as an OT tune - at least not in the Southern U.S. tradition. I've heard it played by lots og revivalists from the 70's up to now. But offhand, I can't think of a "source" recording of the tune. Guess I need to go check the LOC or DLA.

Anybody else know if one of those older fiddlers recorded it? Right now I'm thinking I'd have liked the video better if they'd both played "Soldier's Joy" though, offhand, I don't think I've heard an Irish fiddler play "Soldier's Joy" either....

--OTJ

DougD - Posted - 06/25/2012:  16:22:15

OTJunky  - Over here, that tune, or something like it, goes by other names. "Twin Sisters" for one, as played by Sherman Wimmer on Old Originals, Vol 1 or "The Old  Ark's A-Moving" from Taylor Kimble, which is how I learned it:  ibiblio.org/fiddlers/OI_OLDGRE..._A-MOVING

Its in Vol. 1 of Knauff's Virginia Reels as "The Two Sisters" with some traces of Irish style ornamentation, to my ears.

OTJunky - Posted - 06/25/2012:  17:42:55

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

OTJunky  - Over here, that tune, or something like it, goes by other names. "Twin Sisters" for one, as played by Sherman Wimmer on Old Originals, Vol 1 or "The Old  Ark's A-Moving" from Taylor Kimble, which is how I learned it:  ibiblio.org/fiddlers/OI_OLDGRE..._A-MOVING

Its in Vol. 1 of Knauff's Virginia Reels as "The Two Sisters" with some traces of Irish style ornamentation, to my ears.

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Ah - thanks.



I do know the tune "Old Ark's A-Moving".  Didn't the Fuzzy Mountain band record that?



 Didn't know the  "Twin Sisters" name before now.  So now I know two tunes I didn't know I knew.



Good day all around.  Now I'm smarter than I was... 

Usually I feel a little dumber each day.  

--OTJ

Edited by - OTJunky on 06/25/2012 17:45:36

BrownsDream - Posted - 06/25/2012:  18:06:56

My source for this version of Twin Sisters is West Virginia fiddler Ernie Carpenter.

withnall - Posted - 06/25/2012:  18:14:51

Nice video.I think I'll print a still from it and put it on my "hope" board to remind me that I want both voices, one day, .....

davidbragger - Posted - 06/25/2012:  18:26:11

Over here in Los Angeles Land, a musical crossroads for SoCal musicians such as Oklahoma fiddler Earl Collins, Round Peak banjo player Ed Lowe, Tennessee fiddler Bob Rogers and one of my mentors Illinois fiddler Mel Durham, we know the tune as "***** and the Baby." It was a staple of Mel Durham's repertoire that many of us play! I always think of Mel when I hear any variation of "The Boys of Bluehill." 

Edited by - davidbragger on 06/25/2012 18:32:45

Addie - Posted - 06/25/2012:  18:44:20

quote:

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Originally posted by bj

This video spells it out better than a bunch of dialog ever could!

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You have to wear glasses to play OT?   

[great video, BTW!]

OTJunky - Posted - 06/25/2012:  18:52:32

quote:

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Originally posted by BrownsDream

My source for this version of Twin Sisters is West Virginia fiddler Ernie Carpenter.

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Thanks...

--OTJ

Peghead - Posted - 06/25/2012:  20:54:11

Thanks for the video. (2) great players and fantastic sounding fiddles.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 06/25/2012:  20:58:03

quote:

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Originally posted by BrownsDream

My source for this version of Twin Sisters is West Virginia fiddler Ernie Carpenter.

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Hi Matt,

Thanks for checking up on us!!!

BrownsDream - Posted - 06/25/2012:  21:25:06

You are welcome!

Shawn Craver - Posted - 06/26/2012:  05:59:49

Yep, other Merkin versions are Sally Ann Johnson by Henry Reed.. it also goes by "Cleaning Out the Kitchen" where Im from.
Melvin Wine played a version.

Shawn Craver - Posted - 06/26/2012:  06:08:19

 It's a nice tune and Reed's playing is a good example of upper south playing and how trad. players handled their tunes. 

memory.loc.gov/afc/afcreed/137...03b10.mp3

Edited by - Shawn Craver on 06/26/2012 06:09:16

drdosido - Posted - 06/26/2012:  08:34:22

IIRC Francis O'Neill had never heard Boys of Bluehill until it was played for him in Chicago by a juvenile delinquent (I'm paraphrasing).  I believe his name was George West.  It was not necessarily a purely Irish tune.  Lots of American tunes ended up in O'Neills. 

Boys of Blue Hill is clearly related to the Beaux of Oak Hill that was published numerous times in the States as far back as the 1840s.  I found a version of it in an 1842 manuscript from Ohio under the title Silver Lake.  In 1979, I recorded Clay Smith of Star City, Indiana playing it as Hell on the Wabash.  And in 1994, I heard Mel Durham, a native of Illinois, play it as ***** and the Baby.  Vesta Johnson of St. Louis, and many others, call it She Oughta Been a Lady.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 06/26/2012:  09:11:25

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shawn Craver

 It's a nice tune and Reed's playing is a good example of upper south playing and how trad. players handled their tunes. 

memory.loc.gov/afc/afcreed/137...03b10.mp3

---

I've always liked that version, but I can't get it in my head... I get lost!

Shawn Craver - Posted - 06/26/2012:  09:58:40

Yep pogo, Henry Reed did some nice twists and turns with tunes. I dont do it like that either... stole a few ideas though!

Dr Dosiso- excellent points on the O'Neill collection...

Samuel Bayard collected four versions of this tune from four different players all likely born before 1900, traditional ear players.

In 1944 from Irvin Yaugher- knew it since he was a boy. Knew no name for it.
1944 J. Smalley - Knew no name for it.
1930s George Strosnider called it Silver Lake. (Born in 1860s)
1930s I. Morris Knew no name for it
1930s E. King called it Silver Lake

Mandogryl - Posted - 06/26/2012:  11:47:00

quote:

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Originally posted by BrownsDream

My source for this version of Twin Sisters is West Virginia fiddler Ernie Carpenter.

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 Welcome to Fiddle Hangout, Matt.

BrownsDream - Posted - 06/26/2012:  12:54:52

thanks!!

Paul Gifford - Posted - 06/26/2012:  14:03:22

I recorded a nameless version of Beaux of Oak Hill, played by Elmer House of the rural area outside Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan (far eastern Upper Peninsula), at giffordmusic.net/Old%20Standards.html.  I think it was widespread in the past, but not widely played in Michigan.

OTJunky - Posted - 06/26/2012:  14:49:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shawn Craver

 It's a nice tune and Reed's playing is a good example of upper south playing and how trad. players handled their tunes. 

memory.loc.gov/afc/afcreed/137...03b10.mp3

---

Fascinating.  I'm familiar with Henry Reed's rendition of Sally Johnson, but I'd never connected it in my mind with either "the Boys of Bluehill" or with "Keep the Ark A'Moving".

Duh..

Just goes to show how much bowing and note choice can alter a tune.

--OTJ

leemysliwiec - Posted - 06/26/2012:  15:10:01

How nice it would be to see more 'crossover' tunes compared like that.   LEE

BrownsDream - Posted - 06/26/2012:  15:31:49

Well leemysliwiec, Jessica and I have a full-length show devoted to the melodies shared in both old-time fiddling and Irish fiddling. It's called "Over the Hills and Far Away."  We plan on performing it again in the Chicago area in the fall, and hopefully elsewhere in the nation before too long. There will likely be more YouTube videos after the next Chicago performance.



We already have a bunch of melodies we've identified as existing in in the heart of both traditions (Lord McDonald/Leather Britches, Waynesboro/Over the Moor to Maggie, et al), and I'd certainly welcome any more identifications of tunes that are shared. We are trying to avoid material that is on the fringes of the traditions, and/or that might only be recent additions to the modern jamming scenes. It's been a really neat process to have this conversation together, and with friends and audience members.



-Matt

Edited by - BrownsDream on 06/26/2012 15:34:31

GeeDubya - Posted - 06/26/2012:  15:33:39

Good stuff, Matt. Keep it up.

leemysliwiec - Posted - 06/26/2012:  15:43:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrownsDream

Well leemysliwiec, Jessica and I have a full-length show devoted to the melodies shared in both old-time fiddling and Irish fiddling. It's called "Over the Hills and Far Away."  We plan on performing it again in the Chicago area in the fall, and hopefully elsewhere in the nation before too long. There will likely be more YouTube videos after the next Chicago performance.



We already have a bunch of melodies we've identified as existing in in the heart of both traditions (Lord McDonald/Leather Britches, Waynesboro/Over the Moor to Maggie, et al), and I'd certainly welcome any more identifications of tunes that are shared. We are trying to avoid material that is on the fringes of the traditions, and/or that might only be recent additions to the modern jamming scenes. It's been a really neat process to have this conversation together, and with friends and audience members.



-Matt

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Thanks, Matt.   When and where will you perform?  I friend of mine who plays mostly Irish music, and I figured that we could come up with 45 or so tunes that we called 'crossover' tunes.  Even though we came from different fiddling traditions, we were able to have a great jam session using those tunes.   I especially remember Waynesboro/over the Moor to Maggie.  THere is almost no change except that in Old time we usually use only two parts and  my friend used a third part ( which by the way Frank George taught me 20 years ago).    LEE

GeeDubya - Posted - 06/26/2012:  17:39:13

Crossover ideas you probably already have: Merryweather/Tom Ward's Downfall; Kitty's Wedding/Belle of Lexington

BrownsDream - Posted - 06/26/2012:  21:21:38

We don't have anything booked yet.

bj - Posted - 06/28/2012:  14:16:42

Dang, I post this, stay away a day or so . . . and look what happens! HAH!

I'm glad you're around to comment on this, Matt. I hope when you book, you make it to Godfrey Daniels in Bethlehem PA. I can make sure you'll get a warm welcome there if you do.

BrownsDream - Posted - 06/29/2012:  06:57:11

We would love to play Godfrey Daniels! I don't remember whose booking it these days, but I hope we can make something happen.

Best! - matt