Welcome to the forum. The fiddle can keep you learning for life!

If you’re looking for something decent at the entry level, $1000 is fairly reasonable. For an instrument at this level, the setup is crucial to its functionality and to its chance of sounding as good as it can. Most commercial violins you’ll find from large retailers won’t be set up very well because setup is where they cut costs to keep the price tag low. Good setup is tome consuming, and large businesses prefer instead to pay seasonal workers to bang out mediocre setups as fast as possible. I knew people who worked at one of the country’s biggest companies, and they were paid for piece work with a quota necessary each day. If they could work quicker, they could meet their quota and maybe knock out a few extras as a bonus, then head home early. This approach did not foster a thoughtful approach to setup, and it didn’t do much for sound. At the first shop where I worked, whenever we took out a new violin from its shipping box, we would immediately throw away the soundpost and bridge to replace them with proper ones so the violins could be rented out. Just getting a good soundpost, bridge, and string set can make a world of difference.

Fiddlerman has become one of the largest online retailers. They have a wide assortment of instruments and many are of good quality. You would still benefit from at least having the setup checked by a good luthier after a purchase, but they ought to have some decent options.

There are at least a couple excellent luthiers in Maine. They may be more geared toward the higher end, but they might give some recommendations for competent work in your area.

Thanks, Rich! I know there's a couple here in Maine, but not sure how much interest they have in lower-end instruments.

Just wanted to say hi! Is that a Maine Coon straight from Maine?!
Wishing you lots of joy with your playing and all the luck you need in finding the right fiddle gear! ;-)

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Originally posted by Quincy

Is that a Maine Coon straight from Maine?!
Actually, a neighbor's longhair Calico!
Wishing you lots of joy with your playing and all the luck you need in finding the right fiddle gear! ;-)
Thanks very much, my friend!!

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Of the three models listed, the Eastman is the only one I’d consider as a decent option. That company is the largest supplier of rental violins to violin shops in the country. The others are more aimed simply at online retail to parents who are looking for the lowest price tag. The VL-100 is made well and will sound decent with a good setup.

Cremona has a very appealing name but their violins are some of the worst on the market. I’ve seen a number of them that had plastic necks and scrolls or fingerboards, or very cheap plastic pegs. The work inside is quite crude. Some of them may be a step above Cecilio, but it’s a minuscule one if so.

Kennedy is also low quality. They do a lot more to appear legitimate in their advertising, but the violins are really just more of the same product designed for low cost, not quality. Even the promotional material doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

There are a number of other Chinese brands out there that are comparable to Eastman in some ways, but it’s hard to know which of them to trust and quality varies. In my area there’s a smaller company called Germantown Violins that supplies rentals to the biggest rental shop in the area. As I understand it, they absorbed a lot of the Eastman employees when the warehouse there closed. I’ve been impressed with quality of many of the violins I’ve seen, but I don’t know whether they deal with customers directly (may be wholesale only).

I think at the entry level the priorities are to find something that’s made reasonably well, then make sure it has a well-cut soundpost and bridge and a good set of strings.

Thanks SO very much for your thoughtful and detailed reply! Wondering how these compare to those offered by Fiddlershop? They seem to be a pretty reputable store, from what I understand.

Rich's observations seem to agree with the experiences of some members here.
I have no experience with Fiddlershop (or other large online retailers either) but I like how they present themselves - but they could hardly be farther away from you and still be on the East coast! Violins are more finicky than most fretted instruments, and I think its a good idea to develop a relationship with a local shop, even if their prices might be a little higher than the rock bottom online sources (I can't imagine buying an instrument through Temu). A quick Google search shows several shops in Maine, including Bangor and Brunswick. I'd at least call them and tell them your situation. Even though they may handbuild instruments, or deal in fine old violins, any shop that provides rentals is going to know something about the lower end of the market. Never hurts to ask!
A little farther afield, Johnson String Instruments (aka Carriage House Violins) near Boston has quite an online presence, although I've never dealt with them.

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Originally posted by MarTay6

Thanks SO very much for your thoughtful and detailed reply! Wondering how these compare to those offered by Fiddlershop? They seem to be a pretty reputable store, from what I understand.

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I've seen a few of their instruments in the $5000-10000 range that were good and I've seen some decent carbon fiber entry level bows, but I haven't seen the student level outfits. Their inventory has grown so much with their rise in online traffic that it's hard to summarize. I will say that they have some real people working there who are familiar with violins and I can say that I know they carry some good intermediate student violins because I worked at a shop that supplied some to them.

I'd expect Fiddlershop would be straightforward and reasonable and I don't think you'd end up with a lemon if you spoke to a salesman there.

I have a friend who bought a Fiddlerman outfit at around the $500 mark. I don't remember the model name, but it was well set-up from a playability standpoint and seemed like a very good deal for the $$.

Dude you willing to invest that much and you dont play at all?? Wow, thats trust in ones self. Me I'd go to a local (?) luthier and ask to have fiddles in that range played for you. You can get a great USED instrument for the dosh your talking about. Same with bow.

At 78 and just starting fiddle - well unless you are super talented and dedicated I hope you get something that sounds like a tune out of it before you go. Lots of luck!

Ha, Wrench!!
Never really looked at it that way! I just figured I'd better get something decent the first time, because there probably won't be a 2nd time/upgrade!! lol
Got to have something to do in retirement!!
Lifelong music lover- sooooooo....

Welcome, and enjoy your fiddling journey!! :-)

I second Al’s idea about a nice used instrument, chosen from the ones in your price range after listening to them being played by a good player. The aged/used ones sometimes have a rich depth and patina to the tone, that the new ones just can not replicate. A $1k budget should get a pretty nice used instrument + bow.

Or if you have a good music shop nearby, you could “rent to buy”… a lot of them have the plan where you rent for one year, and if you want to buy an instrument after that, your rental money is applied towards the purchase.

An awful lot of people have this notion that when you get older you can’t learn as well as a young person. Ok so our big muscle ‘the brain’ isn’t as elastic as it used to be. But it has been kept busy all our life to now learning new tricks. Because we have a lifetime of constant learning we get more efficient at learning. After years of playing music and after years of listening to fiddle you have a clear visualisation of what you want to achieve. You know what your new fiddle should sound like and starting off with a good one is the only short cut you're going to get. I hope you succeed with it!

Oh I;m not saying its impossible at later years. Hell I started banjo 3 years ago and I'm 73 and can get a decent tune out of my open backs. But am I ever gonna be at the same level I am on fiddle? No way. Same thing for bagpipes which I started 2 years ago and THAT is an up hill battle as steep as learning fiddle. MarTay6 is gonna find out how exceedingly difficult playing fiddle and getting what even sounds close to music out of the thing really is. Obviously he has the music 'theory' part down already, playing guitar for a long time, but just the mechanics of a good bow draw and pressure and the accuracy of finger placement for good intonation sans frets, those alone take time and repetition. I generally tell newbies they are looking at 2 years of some pretty horrible noise until something that can be easily recognized AND listened to emerges, even with a strict practice regimen. Should he attempt it it? Hell yes - there is dignity and bravery in the attempt ( same as climbing Everest). But spending >$1000 USD on instruments and bows? Hmmmm. But maybe MarTay6 is loaded and a grand is chump change? Will you adopt me, please??

Adult learning of the violin has increased substantially, especially during the pandemic. Given the number of adults learning and the number of teachers who are taking on adults, there’s a lot available to anyone hoping to take up the instrument. There are some physical challenges with which older players may have to contend in developing proper posture, but that doesn’t mean learning to play is unrealistic.

I also don’t think it’s very helpful to advise new learners to buy cheap junk just because they’re getting started. Bad instruments are a major stumbling block, and if you have limited time to learn, putting stumbling blocks in your way just robs you of the opportunity to make music and develop good tone and technique.

There have been a few comments that suggest that there are lots of great options at $1000 in new and old instruments and that you can find a great deal by selecting a repaired instrument. I think these comments are based on buying violins in the very distant past. Those violins that could be bought for a few hundred in 1990 are now selling for ten times that. The Chinese market has inflated instrument prices at the low end so that old Germans are now well over $1000 unless they’re complete wrecks. A run-of-the-mill cottage industry German violin is now comfortably in the $2000-4000 range. The basic Chinese rental outfits used by shops retail at close to $1000 now. This is why online stores and some shady internet marketplaces get so much traffic—potential buyers are confronted with the reality of current violin pricing and they turn to the online retailers to look for lower prices. An outfit at $1000 will generally be an entry-level rental. If you really want a student instrument that has more room for growth, the sweet spot is about $1800-3000--just for the violin. 

If keeping cost down while learning is key, renting accomplishes this while usually providing some sort of damage coverage plan that eliminates big repair bills if there’s an accident and may cover some basic upkeep. A rent-to-own program puts payments toward owning the instrument you’re using and a rental credit program applies a portion of what you pay toward an eventual purchase. These are good options if you’re not sure how long you intend to play.

If you want to simply buy a good quality instrument and start with that, that’s perfectly fine. You can hinder yourself by purchasing a lemon, but not by purchasing something that’s “overkill.” I think it’s rather demeaning when people try to tell new learners they shouldn’t buy anything good, especially when they’re adults. Buy something that will play well, but let your budget and personal interest dictate the price range.

In another life long ago and far away, I had a grandmother-in-law who started fiddle at age 80. Don't remember how long she had been at it when I heard her, but less than a year, but she had a nice tone, and could play a few simple tunes, slowly. She had played piano all her life, and may have had a head full of tunes to start with, not sure.

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Originally posted by wrench13

Oh I;m not saying its impossible at later years. Hell I started banjo 3 years ago and I'm 73 and can get a decent tune out of my open backs. But am I ever gonna be at the same level I am on fiddle? No way. Same thing for bagpipes which I started 2 years ago and THAT is an up hill battle as steep as learning fiddle. MarTay6 is gonna find out how exceedingly difficult playing fiddle and getting what even sounds close to music out of the thing really is. Obviously he has the music 'theory' part down already, playing guitar for a long time, but just the mechanics of a good bow draw and pressure and the accuracy of finger placement for good intonation sans frets, those alone take time and repetition. I generally tell newbies they are looking at 2 years of some pretty horrible noise until something that can be easily recognized AND listened to emerges, even with a strict practice regimen. Should he attempt it it? Hell yes - there is dignity and bravery in the attempt ( same as climbing Everest). But spending >$1000 USD on instruments and bows? Hmmmm. But maybe MarTay6 is loaded and a grand is chump change? Will you adopt me, please??

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First of all, I would like to humbly thank all of you who have taken the time to give me the advise that I asked for. Please know I greatly appreciate it!
However...
You know- to imply that I would like to buy a "less-than-cheap" instrument because I must be loaded is rather degrading. 
I am NOT loaded.. I'm retired, and living on a Navy pension and Social Security. Large purchases are not just entered into lightly. Contrary.
However- having played acoustic fingerstyle guitar for over 30 years (and teaching it)- everyone knows that more people have given up trying to learn on a cheap guitar- and figuring "I can't learn"- when, in fact- nobody could play on their $75 guitar that they purchased from  Wally World. Also... being a life-long woodworker- and having been a fan of antiques most of my adult life- I greatly admire fine worksmanship. 
There's a certain satisfaction that comes from owning- & handling a fine- well, ANYTHING! :-) 
So- just because I'm 78 years old- don't automatically assume I must have money to waste- just because I don't want to buy a cheap violin... whether or not I'll ever be successful in learning to play it.
I know full well I won't reach a point where I "need to upgrade". That's why I'd like to do it right the first time- within a limited budget.
The truth is, I've learned to do my due diligence. To study.... to learn- to ask other people's advice- who are much more experienced than I- before laying out some hard-earned money on something to give me enjoyment- merely by owning a quality instrument.

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Originally posted by MarTay6

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There's a certain satisfaction that comes from owning- & handling a fine- well, ANYTHING! :-) 

This!  Lutherie of fine instruments is a form of art IMO.

Also, decent sub-$1000 violins may be rarities in music shops, but can easily be found at vendor tables at OT and BG events.  Of course the definition of "decent" is somewhat personal, but most fiddlers could find something they'd be happy with below that figure, especially if the seller was adept at setup work and went over their instruments with any degree of care.

So.... no adoption papers coming?? I'm crushed!

J/K of course and all in good fun, bud.

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Originally posted by wrench13

So.... no adoption papers coming?? I'm crushed!
LOL!!
J/K of course and all in good fun, bud
Hey, understood! As a retired Navy Chief, sometimes- even though I try to keep my former position under control, sometimes it jes' sneaks out! 
Best-
Wes

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Check your dm's bud.

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Originally posted by bacfire

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Originally posted by MarTay6

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There's a certain satisfaction that comes from owning- & handling a fine- well, ANYTHING! :-) 

This!  Lutherie of fine instruments is a form of art IMO.

Also, decent sub-$1000 violins may be rarities in music shops, but can easily be found at vendor tables at OT and BG events.  Of course the definition of "decent" is somewhat personal, but most fiddlers could find something they'd be happy with below that figure, especially if the seller was adept at setup work and went over their instruments with any degree of care.

 

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Lutherie is a skilled trade, not an art, and good setup is a matter workmanship, not just ability to bring out tone. Yes, there are some old fiddles being flogged at tables if you wander around, but they're cheap because they're NOT set up well or set up by people who do not understand what makes for a good setup, they're in need of significant work that a player without lutherie experience is able to diagnose, or they aren't set up at all and are just dusty old attic fiddles that get dumped on a table because the owner wants to get rid of them but isn't willing to put the time and money in that's needed to make them properly playable.

Flea markets and antique stores occasionally have old fiddles brought in that are sold for a pittance because no one knows what to do with them, but they invariably need a good setup to be playable. I just refurbished such a violin for an Old Time player who chanced upon one at an antique mall. She was very fortunate because the violin was in nearly pristine shape, so with a new bridge and post, a tailpiece, and a good setup of strings it turned into her favorite instrument. But it needed the work to get there.

When I went to Galax in my childhood there were more vendors that had fiddles out on tables, and although most were junk, there were a few that had potential but needed substantial work to be usable. My father almost bought one once, but he decided not to take on a violin that needed a full neck reset and some other work that would take my grandfather a lot of time to complete. There were also a few places that were selling grossly overpriced newer fiddles from China, and there was even a new maker whose instruments were so poorly made yet exaggeratedly overpriced that it was hard to believe the asking price was serious. When I went to Galax more recently, I found that the number of people selling fiddles had dwindled to only one or two, and almost everything was just Chinese fiddles and bows that came straight out of a box with factory setups. The few old fiddles were atrociously set up and repaired. I managed to find one that hadn't been too badly savaged and traded for it, but I had to put several hundred dollars worth of work into it to get it so that it could be shown to a player. The casual fiddle trade really went south when everything went online and it got easier to sell junk at a distance.

A good setup costs several hundred. If a fiddle is selling for that amount, it's either a charitable donation or you're getting the wool pulled over your eyes. It's silly to imply that it's all a matter of personal taste; there are quantifiable standards to a good setup. 

As the youth protection videos in the Cub Scout program used to warn, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." I take issue with the attitude that junk or mangled instruments are "good enough for a fiddler." That may not be the intended conclusion, but that's what the "just buy something cheap at a card table in front of an RV from someone who whittled a bridge once with a Swiss Army knife" actually amounts to. I firmly believe all players of the violin deserve to be offered playable and expertly presented instruments for their own benefit and that of anyone who's listening when they play. Badmouthing shops for selling instruments at realistic prices that reflect the actual violin market is in very poor taste. 

I have a couple of preferred online violin stores in China. I recently bought a viola for around $1000 landed which means the instrument price was around $800. Freight and taxes made up the difference. I already have a good bow (USA) and a good case. Fortunately I can do my own set up but it still cost me about $600 for a new tailpiece, bridge, geared tuners and strings. The strings for this viola is Cello strings so they're fairly expensive. Anyhow all in all I bought myself a nice (very nice) Viola from China for a reasonable price and I was quoted $18,000 from a luthier in England to make me one. He most likely may have made a better one but I’m very happy with what I have.

I'm just glad I'm not an expert, in anything. I'd never be able to afford things I'm satisfied with and would be eternally miserable.

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Originally posted by bacfire

I'm just glad I'm not an expert, in anything. I'd never be able to afford things I'm satisfied with and would be eternally miserable.

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Funny you should say that. At the shop where I last worked, the owner had an expression he'd repeat any time he had an especially stressful day:

"I wonder what Jacques Français would be doing right now."

The expression was based on his personal experience with Français, who lived an exciting but peaceful life and had the luxury of being able to do what he wanted in his free time. When he decided to close operations, he could easily sell his incredible inventory, and he enjoyed the ability to devote even more time to his hobbies of gardening and enjoying fine wines. On a day where  the shop was working at full capacity to fill a stack of orders from 50 different shops with a staff of less than 10 and the owner would come in well before sunrise and leave well after sunset, it was easy to see how that expression had a lot of meaning. That's not to say the shop owner doesn't love the trade, just that the blissful serenity of the life of an expert like Français is enviable. 

I think most people in the violin business would give just about anything to be Chris Reuning and get to sell the finest violins in the world while enjoying boats, whiskey, and cigars. The experts that I've had the honor of meeting and/or working with have been a real inspiration because of the depth of knowledge they possess in addition to their incredible passion for the violin. It's amazing to see the level of detail an expert reaches in analysis of a fiddle and the insatiable thirst for knowledge that drives one to learn more about makers and to identify violins that were previously unknown.

I recently completed a restoration of an 18th century violin that was one of only 31 made by the maker. When the owner got the instrument back he sent it to a top expert for evaluation, believing it was likely legitimate. The expert was almost giddy with excitement about the violin and enthusiastically endorsed it. He even offered to buy it on the spot. Just the opportunity to discover another violin by that maker and add to his base of knowledge was exciting to him. I could completely understand that because I absolutely loved that violin and hated to have to give it back to the owner when I competed the work.

To be honest, I can't think of a violin expert I'd describe as miserable. Perhaps there are experts who are that way in other fields, but I tend to find that experts often have the most childlike curiosity about their professions and the most impressive devotion. That seems to lead to higher personal and professional satisfaction than I see in many other places. If you want to see a violin expert light up like a Christmas tree, get him talking about what he's got tucked away in his vault.