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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

...don't like it. I worked on it for a couple of 3 hour sessions I came across...lol...which was a trick in itself...lesson learned: it you never play and never sing and never make music in any way shape or form...it just sounds awful ...lol. I'm still considering whether when I get more time I try to fix it or scrap the whole dang thing and start over.

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First, welcome back. I used to make multi-track recordings. Sometimes it's hard to know when to can it and start over, but if you plain don't like it, can it, start over. You know you can do a good one.

Hey thanks, Brian! Good to see you too...I guess I'll either start again or just try something different.

It was Great Big Taters in Sandy Land...those types of tunes that are so close they are almost something else drive me crazy...It's part Sally Ann and part Did you Ever See the Devil, Uncle Joe...lol...at least that's how I hear it. Then I put too much groundhog choir in it too...just kinda ... did NOT work...lol. I think I'll just forget about that one and think up another 'un to try next chance I get.

HOpe you’ll get a chunk of time to make music!

I know when I was doing the multitrack stuff, I hated stopping or being interrupted.
I don’t wanna be bothered with eating, or talking to anyone… until I’m done.

Almost all of The Brigands albums are recorded on multi track at my basement studio, Lower Deck Productions. Occasionally we'll do a song or tune in one recording, but when someone makes a boo boo, there is usually too much bleed from an adjacent track to just go in and re-record that one part. Doing it track by track gives you more control but can lose that 'live' sound unless everyone's sense of time spot on.

Al...I do all the tracks individually, because I'm just a goundhog of one...lol. The amateur, very amateur BG band I was in for a while recorded in a guy's basement and did them individually too...that was so awkward with everybody taking a turn and standing there watching in anticipation as you poked in and out of the silence with your singing, pickin', finddlin' or whatever it was...lol...but they made a few little homespun CDs to sell in very small local places.

NC...I fully agree...I can't stand interruptions and it's the best diet I was ever on...the recording diet...don't bother me with food or hunger...and as a matter of fact, the more I think on this, the more I believe my problem was knowing my time was limited...I had 3 hours on 2 separate days and I think I was so excited but felt "timed," so I think it was pressing on my nerves. By the way, I was interrupted three separate times just doing this short post...lol...which is pretty good considering how it usually goes.

yea, I would start after dinner and at 2am or 3am it felt ‘wrapped’ but it had to be done in one long sprint like that or it was no good. THen I would stagger off to bed. In the morning, go play the track and see if I was deluded last night…
MUsic does not seem to sync well with a regular organized lifestyle!
FIddling I can do in little bursts here and there…
I could never seem to do that with the multi-track stuff.

Exactly how it is with me...lol.

Well Peggy, I still love what you're doing. It still comes across solid. I know you're going for those harmonies. It sounds great.

I haven't turned my multi-track on for months. I've conceded if I can't get it done with the looper, it ain't gonna happen. I tell myself, demo's just need to get the bare idea across. But nobody makes demos of old tunes like I play. I hardly post to the channel unless it's, I dunno? I'm loosing ambition as I'm typing.
But Cheers to you GHP!

Hey Peggy - first reactions to your post...... are you using a PC and, if so, what software are you using ? I have a decent mike and use Audacity software..... doesn't improve my playing, but seems to do a decent job of what I record.

Farmer Jones...great to hear from you. Yes, I want a looper. I always think if I ever get one of those things I might stop the multi track recording and just play with that thing. I do think I would have a problem getting the tempo straight...that's my biggest issue...I have a really hard time playing with a metronome, but I have to use one to set my tempo with a scratch track so my other tracks will hang together somewhat...but setting it is really tough for me...even though I like stuff at a slower pace, I always end up, once I get all my tracks going, feeling like I'm going TOO slow...lol...but unless I have the time to start up the whole thing again, I just keep going with what I started. I figure if I got a looper I might start out faster but not so sure my tempo would be steady and my tracks would hang together as I went along...who knows? Someday I'll have to get me one to find out...lol. But I do love what you do...your YouTubes always make me feel like I need an accordion, chicory in my coffee, and some shrimp in my rice...lol...I've never been to Louisianna, but I feel like I'm there when I hear you play!

Thanks Mark...great to hear from you. I bought a Presonus home recording studio as a retirement gift to myself in 2009...it came with Studio One software and since those days I've gone through a couple of PCs and now I'm using a Macbook I got especially for making recordings and YouTubes. It ain't as easy to use as I'd hoped it would be, but I guess it's easier than the PCs were. I know a lot of people speak highly of Audacity. I've never tried it because I'm a technical dummy and I got comfortable with the Studio One and so it's a no brainer for me, although I know it has bells and whistles I've never learned to use... I'm just happy with the bare bones of one track plus another, etc. Studio One was free with the Presonus back when I bought the thing. I've got mics from my old days when I used my Fender Passport sound system to play...haven't used that for a long while, but I ended up getting some other mics back when I did use that, so I have a choice between Fender, Shur, and another one...can't remember what the other one was and my grandson took it for his own use...lol...so I guess he likes that one. I've got more than I need.

When I was playing with several bands, I used to record lots of stuff on my homestudiocomputer. It had ProTools 10. Great performance and I could do anything I'd liked to.

But when that computer crashed and proved irrepairable, I didn't care for setting up a whole new studio again.

Ever since I used Audacity as a 'musical sketchbook'. Good enough for me.

Good microphones are the single most important issue. My Audix SCR-25A are more than good enough for my needs.

I think this is the level I used to work at and great fun was had making it. Since I suck at double bass, I borrowed my wife's electric one (with a block of soft foam under the strings against the bridge as a sustain killer...). The rest I played one by one, piling all on top of each other...

Turning a rock riff into Bluegrass: www.banjohangout.org/myhangout/media-player/audio_player2.asp?musicid=16008&archived=

Funny this would come up. I didn't think there was a need for a new discussion. I sort of reviewed my new J4T app. and posted it as a blog entry.
fiddlehangout.com/blog/10562

Hey Bruno

I see that you are also a member on Banjo Hangout . In the[ Other Banjo Thread], they are discussing rock songs made into bluegrass.

I think that your rock riff above would be perfect for that thread and that they would like to hear it. I did.

I was with a BG band back in the late 80's- early 90's, Jumbo String Band, who put out an album of rock tunes played bluegrass style. Stuff like Here Comes The Rain Again and 99 Red Balloons. Not my fav music and I left the band soon after. But I like this rendition.

RB - WOW :-D

Aww... just missed this one completely. Been busy, but that's no excuse.

Thanks everyone  , it's just an example what lots of patience and precision can do.

Yet, I knew never to sing with closed headphones, but always keeping one ear free, or else I'd be noticably off key. Why I didn't apply this knowledge while recording this dobro part is beyond me...

Listening back, I think I should have done that again. 

@imapicker2 , I looked for that topic in the BHO, but never found it.

But it's known there, so no need reposting it.

RB You have 1946 plays, you got fans! Your picking is great - that’s some good bluegrass coming from the Netherlands…here I am living in bluegrass country (North Carolina) and I am playing Irish fiddle? Ah, the irony of it!

So now the goal is multitrack using an Android tablet. PLUS, incorporating good microphones with an added USB box, much like a Presonus.
Audio Evolution Mobile is the software application of choice. First interface didn't jibe with the tablet. The interface needs its own power.
I've been practicing with AEM, using the built-in mikes. Easy to use app. It also has a latency offset 'button' so all the tracks line up. More later on this. . . .. .

Bruno...Smoke on the H2O sounding good on that thing. I never heard that song before until my grandson learned guitar and he made me (try to) play that with him several times.

Farmer Jones...the technology drives me nuts. I'm so bad at understanding it and I can't stand any changes because I'm just lost for such a long time I feel like there's nothing but struggle involved...lol. That's why I hope my setup can just get me through the next ??? years. Sounds like you've got a lot of experience in dealing with the changes. I hope you can share what you do....I always love hearing what you play.

Thanks again for all this appreciation! This is by no means my standard repertoire,,,,,,

If you'd notice something about my English, keep in mind that my native language  (the one we're speaking, reading and writing in the Netherlands) is Dutch. It belongs to the germanic group and has similarities with English, German and Scandinavian languages. The Belgian Flemish and the Netherlands' Dutch are actually two dialects from the same language. But we understand each other from relatively easy to almost perfect.

With that out of the way,

Peg, I feel for you, as the technical side of recording and even handling a PA can become rather intimidating very quickly.

I guess I'm lucky, since I can choose looking at it all from the technician's or the musician's point of view,  

On festivals and camps I've done workshops on PA handling for musicians in acoustic music, Bluegrass in particular. The do's and don'ts that can help avoiding disaster on stage.

Later (~1989), I started recording with an 8 channel 0.5 inch reel to reel tape recorder, an 8 channel mixing board and a stereo DAT recorder for mixing down to stereo tracks that were burned to CD.

When this mechanical set started to show signs of wearing out, I made the step to ProTools (all virtual studio), using my experience gained with the tape stuff.

Yet, the complete transition from ProTools (a real pro thing) to Audacity took me at least two years, Go figure: me, a sound engineer. 

In Pro Tools, literally every function can (and should!) be configured to ones needs. Audacity has more (just a bit, not all) of a fixed structure. Enough for having me adapting and relearning routines I was using with ProTools.

Too bad, this same procedure has many variations for other virtual studio programs available.

Has this been of any help to you?  The trick seems to be slowing down the learning process and dividing it up in manageble chunk(let)s. Don't bit off more than you can chew!

Though I can't do an entire on line course, I'll see if I can help. And there are more of us that are capable.

I'm never at ease when someone else is recording me (banjo in particular), for exactly this reason:

farmerjones - I've had Audio Evolution Mobile on my old tablet for quite a few years. The only app I've ever actually bought, and it seems to be head and shoulders above anything else. I don't use that tablet anymore though - it's only an 8 inch screen, which is a handicap. A wireless mouse helped some. I wasn't really using the multitrack capabilities though, but it enabled me to extract some stories from live shows to send to the performers at a time when my laptop was unreliable (I usually use Sound Forge for things like that).
Do tablet USB ports furnish enough power to run a little interface - I've never tried it, my two interfaces are both Firewire, which was considered better at the time. If you have the budget you might look at the MOTU interfaces, which seem a little nicer than the bare bones ones (not sure if Presonus is even available anymore).
Also, the Zoom H4n is a very handy device. In addition to stereo recording from its built in mics or XLR inputs with phantom power, it can act as a USB interface for a computer. It also can do limited multitrack recording (four channels with digital bouncing capabilities) with internal mixing and processing, although it might take some getting used to. I may try it some day, although multitrack recording is not very high on my agenda.
Good luck with your project.

No, tablet doesn't suppy enough power. New powered interface is on its way.

Bruno - Nice playing and a very good recording. Is your Audix microphone the same as the SCX-25? If so, it looks like a very good choice for acoustic music. I mist have missed that mic - maybe it came after the time I was active in studio work. I did get the chance to use some of the classic vintage mics though. As you like banjo, here's a track I recorded using a setup similar to what you described - 1/2" 8 track recorder and a small mixing console. I was the tracking engineer, but I didn't mix it, but I imagine it was mixed to 1/4" analog tape. Hopefully this link will take you directly to "Alcatraz Blues," but that's the track I thought you might enjoy.
youtube.com/watch?v=DUEPAk0h26Y&t=1893s

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Originally posted by DougD

Bruno - Nice playing and a very good recording. Is your Audix microphone the same as the SCX-25? If so, it looks like a very good choice for acoustic music. I mist have missed that mic - maybe it came after the time I was active in studio work. I did get the chance to use some of the classic vintage mics though. As you like banjo, here's a track I recorded using a setup similar to what you described - 1/2" 8 track recorder and a small mixing console. I was the tracking engineer, but I didn't mix it, but I imagine it was mixed to 1/4" analog tape. Hopefully this link will take you directly to "Alcatraz Blues," but that's the track I thought you might enjoy.
youtube.com/watch?v=DUEPAk0h26Y&t=1893s

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Thank you!  It was just an experiment, I'd rather play live and record it all at once, but when you're the only player available, well.... Preventing any misunderstanding: I like all Bluegrass instruments....

It's the SCX-25A, the non-A edition only lasted a short while before they came with this (improved?) version. When my wife Elly and I are performing as a duo ('Heartstrings'), we only use two. One for vocal and guitar (being the loudest of the two, I'm singing across her shoulder) and one for instrument fill:

The Fiction Brothers, wow, haven't heard them in a long time. Must have been here on the radio in the seventies. Probably their album with Country Cooking (1976). Imagining you worked with these guys.....

The link gave me the entire album, but I found Alcatraz Blues anyway.

What struck me was the title track, 'Things Are Coming My Way' that, believe it or not, was done a capella by Elly and her ladies-only trio 'Babes in the Grass' too....

Back to Alcatraz Blues...

Of course, there's one of my heroes, Tony Trischka. One of the first to turn the banjo completely inside out.  I really studied what he was doing, mostly coming up with something simpler that even I could play.  But the way he managed to play music, so much more complex than straightforward , traditional Bluegrass ( that I love to bits too!), was impressive and an important factor in the further development of acoustic string band music. He certainly influenced my playing, back in the eighties.

The triple fiddling ( we're on the FHO anyway, aren't we?) was the cherry on the cake. Sometimes I'd try a bit of twin fiddle with Elly and realize how hard that actually is. So triple....

We also had a trio, Skyland, we recorded with.  It must have been the best thing ever we had going, while still being on top of our game. Too bad our friend Theo, who sang and played guitar and clawhammer, died only two months after this recording.

First track here is Shorttrack Shuffle, I wrote it after the tune popped up while (ice) speedskating myself. Our friends Paul van Vlodrop and Joost van Es helped out on mandolin and fiddle. Curiously enough Joost now is my fiddle teacher....  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GONyou9azjA

We recorded at home (Living Room Studio) as you see...

Here's how the trio singing sounded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyQ96Q4U-n4  Paul again on mandolin. I'm joining as tenor on the chorus....  It's an old, rearranged Country Gazette song.

Slowing down the pace a bit, I had a chance to play some guitar and as I seem to always find the missing voice on the trios, sing some tenor as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UylG5wAz3Ls

As we knew Theo wouldn't be with us anymore soon, Elly wrote this and we performed in the 'missing man formation', just the two of us with guitar and mandolin.  Theo heard it and gave it his blessing.

Took a while before we could perform it live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7RrMTO_JSU

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

farmerjones - I've had Audio Evolution Mobile on my old tablet for quite a few years. The only app I've ever actually bought, and it seems to be head and shoulders above anything else. I don't use that tablet anymore though - it's only an 8 inch screen, which is a handicap. A wireless mouse helped some. I wasn't really using the multitrack capabilities though, but it enabled me to extract some stories from live shows to send to the performers at a time when my laptop was unreliable (I usually use Sound Forge for things like that).
Do tablet USB ports furnish enough power to run a little interface - I've never tried it, my two interfaces are both Firewire, which was considered better at the time. If you have the budget you might look at the MOTU interfaces, which seem a little nicer than the bare bones ones (not sure if Presonus is even available anymore).
Also, the Zoom H4n is a very handy device. In addition to stereo recording from its built in mics or XLR inputs with phantom power, it can act as a USB interface for a computer. It also can do limited multitrack recording (four channels with digital bouncing capabilities) with internal mixing and processing, although it might take some getting used to. I may try it some day, although multitrack recording is not very high on my agenda.
Good luck with your project.

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Do tablet USB ports furnish enough power to run a little interface

It depends on the tablet (or phone) and how much power the interface (or usb mic) needs. Many tablets using USB-C will power some small bus powered interfaces (or certain usb mics). True condenser mics, the 48v phantom power is often issue, can be very power hungry. (Electret mics often require very little, might even be supplied by internal battery). The problem with tablets or phones is they only have one port used for either data or power/charging to wall, even if works, can drain battery very quickly. Some interfaces have external power plug, or might have secondary USB-C port for external connecting draw power from wall wort. As well they also make adapters (usually called camera connectors) connecting a external devices to tablet/phone for data, while allowing the tablet/device to get power from wall charger. 

I also agree that portable devices like Zoom H4n or Tascam DR40 are possibly good option for some folks, as it offers a portable stand alone basic multitrack (4) recording, besides being able to use other mics; the built in mic capsules are not bad. If used acting as interface; they have own power supply, I think would just using USB-C to send data to tablet... so tablet power is not issue? As an basic interface for a DAW, don't really need worry about limited tracks, or bouncing.

my two interfaces are both Firewire, which was considered better at the time.

I still got some Firewire devices, still work fine. I don't know that Firewire was really "better" for need of home/project interfaces with one or two inputs... it only really mattered if you had a lot of data from simultaneous input channels. The big problem I have is most modern computers/laptops don't have Firewire ports, nor easy adapters to connect them.