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Originally posted by mikeburns

I'm curious.Is the shape and size of all chin rests similar. I'm trying to learn on an old strad copy. I've had 3 of them, and I've never found one that feels comfortable, unless I hold the fiddle much higher and off to the side, than is comfortable for me to play. Do I just need to get used to the old ones, or is there a simple fix?

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Chinrests come in a pretty wide variety of shapes and configurations. The Guarneri model is the most popular because it works well for the greatest number of players. The Strad model has a smaller cup and more of a hump over the tailpiece. There's some variation even among models, as they are made by multiple manufacturers. So some Strad models have a deeper cup, some are taller, some are thinner.

Chinrests are often split into two groups: center-mounted and side-mounted. This refers to the position of the clamps, not the cup itself. Center-mounted chinrests clamp directly over the bottom block and make use of the extra structural strength and the acoustic dead spot. Side-mounted chinrests clamp to the left side of the tailpiece, along the bottom bout. They can be lower and flatter since they don't need to sit over the tailpiece, but the downside is that they can cause rib damage for more easily. You have to be extra careful not to overtighten them. They may have some effect on tone as well, although not nearly as much as other aspects of setup. 
 

Some chinrests have more of a lip for your chin to anchor itself. Players have very different opinions about this. The same is true about the placement of the cup. If you told your head and use more of the jaw instead of the chin, a flatter side mount (like a Kaufman) might work well. If you like a large cup and want your chin to be more centrally located, the Flesch is a center-mount that has a large cup that's right in the middle. It's bulky and takes up a lot of room, but some players prefer it. There's also the Berber, which is taller and has a long cup that's not as big. It allows for multiple chin positions.

Wittner makes a few different plastic options that are quite comfortable for a lot of players, and a couple of their models are adjustable. If you want to really go for ultimate adjustability, there's the Kreddle, with multiple points of articulation and different arm height options.

It can turn into a real rabbit hole if you let it. I would focus on how your chin/jaw come into contact and where you want them to be first. Then if you have the opportunity, go to a shop and just ask to try whatever they have available.  Descriptions will only get you so far--you'll have a better idea of what you like when you try the different shapes. Sometimes what you prefer will surprise you.

I've been liking a newer model called the "Italian model" lately. It is a sort of blend of Strad and Guarneri, with smooth curves. Manufacturers have it that name after a number of modern Italian makers asked for a different design that was less boxy than the Guarneri and less scooped than the typical Strad. 

I gotta say again that it was truly wonderful to live in a large enough town to be able to troll several violin stores when I made my quest for the perfect chin rest. Interestingly, I ended up with a different chin rest for each of my three fiddles. It was also interesting to discover that chin rests seemingly come in a zillion iterations. When it comes to chin rests, it's a real jungle out there.

Ugh! Don’t get me started! They’re all mostly awful for the same reason that they tend to follow the contour of the fiddle not the jaw bone. All of these things, shoulder rests included are prosthetics when you come right down to it. You have to suspend the instrument in the correct playing position and fill in the spaces that are left over above and below, and that’s different for all. Find the set up where the instrument is stable and your shoulder and neck are at ease. Just a slight tip of the head is all that should be required. The Easier said than done. Shrugging the shoulder to stabilize the fiddle is slow death and so is clamping down with the neck. Don't do that. It may take some trial and error. Get set up properly in the beginning. 

I might be weird (MIGHT be), but I have bought one shoulder rest and several chin rests, and they are all stuffed into a junk drawer for life at this point. I never could find anything comfortable for me personally, so I don't mess with any of it. My only problem is if I wear something like a sweater, the fiddle isn't as steady, and if it's hot, I sweat on the thing too much and have to wipe it off or it'll slide right out from under me. I just can't use any of that stuff. Like I said...I'm probably just weird, but I don't use either and I'm happy that way...lol...weird or not. My personal opinion is that the only bad thing about fiddling is the instrument is awkward to hold and handle. I've seen people who sit in a chair and play it like a cello...which makes more sense to me...but I don't know how anybody ever gets good at that because your bowing is backwards and you just don't have the fluid bowing arm motion, at least not from when I tried it before. There's a BG guy locally here that plays a fast and serious Orange Blossom Special sitting down and holding it like a cello...it's amazing to see. I dont' think I could ever get comfortable with that, but it just makes more sense to me than balancing an instrument from your shoulder like fiddling is done. Still...I love to play it, don't like to hold it, but can't play it without holding it...lol...so there's my take. Find what works ... then just go fer it.

Just to take one point out of Peggy's post: have you tried playing without any chin-rest at all? It can be done ....

some can be quite bulky or high...

i like the chin rests that seem to be on trade fiddles from the late 1800s til the 30s or whenever... so ive bought antique junk fiddles from antique shops for parts sometimes... the tail pieces are all small/low fitting... the material is often bakelite? or plastic, some of those are nicer than others...and wood...

i found a nice compact ebony one with brass fittings i use. very light, and only there if i need it.

I keep a bag of old chinrests along with the new ones I stock for setups. Whenever a customer comes to try out chinrests, I get it out so we can go through them. Indeed, a lot of the older components are more petite. Some players like them, some hate them.

At the moment there’s a trend toward taller chinrests, so there are a lot of models that are made intentionally with a lifted cup. Some customers ask for their chinrests to have custom risers added for a specific height.

The chinrest has been a standard part of the violin since its appearance in 1802, but it was not used for playing before that, and baroque players today are often required to play without shoulder rest or chinrest. It can be done and it’s really not such a difficult thing to do as long as you’re not shifting rapidly.

Whatever setup you use, the violin shouldn’t end up to the side, as that will put a strain on the bow arm and the rest of the body. Ideally, your scroll should be in alignment with your eyes.

Good points...I forgot to mention I rarely "shift," in my case meaning sliding up the neck...sometimes I go out on a fiddling limb and go for it...but it's something to think in advance so you don't totally lose control or grip on the thing. For a classical player or even BG or any type player who needs to do that a lot...it would be seem to be a real feat to be able to do that all the time. I've seen old timey fiddlers' who hitch their thumb behind the nut and can reach a lot of notes with their fingers...usually the ones who hold at the chest or in the crook of the elbow...I tried that back when I was trying all the new stuff and decided I would need a pint size fiddle for that to work for me...lol...arm not long enough, hands not big enough. But I've seen it working quite well for some. Like I said before...holding onto the doggone thing seems to be the major quirky challenge to be conquered...IMHO.

I think every fiddler has a draw full of chinrests - I know I do!

That is all such great information. Thank you all very much. This site is wonderful.

quote:

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Originally posted by mikeburns

I'm curious.Is the shape and size of all chin rests similar. I'm trying to learn on an old strad copy. I've had 3 of them, and I've never found one that feels comfortable, unless I hold the fiddle much higher and off to the side, than is comfortable for me to play. Do I just need to get used to the old ones, or is there a simple fix?

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Of course, for beginners there is an aspect of comfort; unfamiliar and getting used to something new. That said, should listen to body, not simply force self to get used to something body is telling is actually uncomfortable or not efficient. Part of that discomfort can be in how they are using or doing something, and/or what they interpret purpose or needs to happen. For example it is possible those chin rests were maybe really intended to hold fiddle much higher and off to the side? As many folks pointed out, fiddlers end up with a drawer full of chin rests and shoulder rests, trying to solve problem, learning what works or not. 

But maybe part of the equation in learning might consider want to periodically re-examine concepts. Idea of holding the fiddle...  what want chin rest to achieve or problem to solve; and start with what role the chin/jaw plays in overall how hold the fiddle.

For example, many use an old way where the chin/jaw doesn't really play much role in "holding" the fiddle. Back of the fiddle just rests on the collarbone, the scroll end is supported by the left hand. Top of the fiddle mostly just contacts chin/jaw... rather just use it to help a little lateral stability and resistance point gravity/slippage/balance. Not really using any down muscle pressure/effort from head/neck (nor upward from shoulder) to "hold" the fiddle. A chin rest's function in this, can be just to elevate the contact point, bring it up, less head tilt; as well can provide a little well or counter angle/wedge (as opposed arch of just plain top). With this, design is not quite as critical, quite a wide range of design/heights will work fine, perfectly functional. Though some might feel more or less comfortable with prolonged use, often in how slightly rubs or perhaps slight digs into chin/jaw, or just material/texture; some find cloth better for them.

Good luck.