froglips - Posted - 06/08/2009:  19:11:16

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I am under the assumption that as long as you can read music notation on the correct clef for the instrument you are attempting to play, you can attempt to play any instrument associated with the same clef.

And going one step further with my assumption ...
Technically, a person could take any instrument and play it using any clef, even if they were using a bass clef for a mandolin, or something like that.

First, am I correct with my assumptions?

If I am correct:
I have some classical music in music notation and tab for guitar, and I would like to play it using the Fiddle. How do I approach this conversion of sorts? What do I eliminate?

If I am not correct:
Can someone please attempt to correct me?

Thank you for your time.

Frog...

It''s not how you pick your nose ... It''s where you put the booger!

ChickenMan - Posted - 06/08/2009:  20:34:10

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Here's the short answer.
If you know the notes on the fiddle and the notes on the page, you can translate anything.

______________________________________
"Music makes time audible" - Suzanne Langer
"Music makes mathematics audible" - Dennis (coelhoe)

Fiddling Bill - Posted - 06/09/2009:  06:38:03

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When you get to using the bow as opposed to a flat pick or finger picks----well, it's an experience !

:>)

satriana - Posted - 06/09/2009:  06:51:44

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The notes are the same. A "C" on a guitar is the same as a "C" on a fiddle. I have taken guitar music and played it on the fiddle. Same with piano or any instrument in standard tunning. I think that is what you were asking.

Blu - Posted - 06/09/2009:  07:09:14

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There is no conversion necessary to play notation written for guitar on the fiddle. Learn where the notes sit on the fiddle and you are in business (at least with regard to that one issue).



“Many a good crop has been lost foolin’ with a fiddle.” John Hartford

FiddlPat - Posted - 06/09/2009:  10:21:45

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There is a difference, from an octave standpoint, when reading for guitar. I learned this, to my surprise, at Berklee. Since the guitar's range is essentially that of the cello, you'd need to write for it in the bass clef, so, with the guitar, the A that the fiddle plays(2nd space, treble clef),,the true A, as written and sounded, is played on the guitar as the A an octave lower,,2nd fret on the G string. To write middle C for guitar(this is at least in Jazz/modern notation),,not sure about classical, but I think it holds true there too,,Middle C(as middle C is truly heard, and played first fret on the B string) you use the third space up on the treble clef. On a fiddle, that note is sounding an octave higher,,,in it's real pitch. Middle C on a fiddle(true middle C) is written on first drawn line below the clef,,,that's true middle C, and where it is notated for everything else,,cept for guitar(not counting for Bb and Eb instruments)

Deep in the mountains of South Louisiana.
Tune the fiddle perfectly just, then lose your temper.

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Edited by - FiddlPat on 06/09/2009 16:37:15

sawfiddle - Posted - 06/16/2009:  18:43:09

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quote:

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: When you get to using the bow as opposed to a flat pick or finger picks----well, it's an experience

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I had just the opposite problem. The fiddle was the first thing i learned. I bought a mandolin and thought i had developed the palsy for about a month. And when i was learning scruggs style 5 string, wow that was interesting!

amezcua - Posted - 06/19/2009:  11:08:53

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Funny you have started violin after guitar as I did it the other way round.I find my musical ear is a lot better for the contrast .There is a site that shows all the frequencies of every instrument compared to a piano.
The octave can be different as long as it`s in the same key.

The KEY system is like a collection of broken ladders and each ladder has certain rungs missing.

The "pattern" of missing rungs is identical
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The "pattern" ------- just starts in different places.

Easy isn`t it?

amezcua - Posted - 06/19/2009:  11:16:13

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Just to underline the KEY thing .Inthe key of "C" you would use the same broken ladder all the way from double bass right up to piccolo.The CLEF is just to show how high or low the notes are.altitude -wise.But you still have to use the same broken ladder.lSo it`s easy to see why people play wrong notes.Music has lots of health and safety issues.

amezcua - Posted - 06/19/2009:  11:32:04

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Part three ;converting to violin from guitar.You have a mental connection between music on page,guitar layout and finger placing.You need to abandon tabs for a bit to get your brain into the same gear.If you can read notation already it won`t take too long Give yourself some fixed stepping stones and keep practicing these while you add a few more day by day.Learn the spacing of notes in arpeggios so your hand will go there automatically after a while --That sort of thing.Only 4 strings to learn .That thought makes it easier already.If you learn something new you don`t unlearn what you knew before.If you run for a bus you don`t forget how to walk.----Man is a creature of doubt!

amezcua - Posted - 06/19/2009:  11:46:49

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Part four When you look at the treble clef that set of lines represents a pattern of notes.As you move down to the next octave the note that was "E" (on the bottom line )will be in a SPACE. Moving on down the next "E" will be on a line again. Each octave swops between space and line as you follow it.---The "E" will not be on the bottom line of the bass clef.You have to figure out which line OR space it`s on.---That`s your homework for today. Messy eh?

Brian T - Posted - 06/28/2009:  22:49:20

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Finale Notepad is about $10.00 online. You can use it to transcribe standard notation from a music book. Then you select the key signature that would be most comfortable to play. Clicky-clicky and FN transposes the music to any key you select.

"I can''t forget, but I don''t remember what " (L.Cohen).

Musicman93 - Posted - 07/28/2009:  20:34:57

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quote:

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Originally posted by froglips

I am under the assumption that as long as you can read music notation on the correct clef for the instrument you are attempting to play, you can attempt to play any instrument associated with the same clef.

And going one step further with my assumption ...
Technically, a person could take any instrument and play it using any clef, even if they were using a bass clef for a mandolin, or something like that.

First, am I correct with my assumptions?

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Your first assumption is correct, however your second is not always true due to the fact that most instruments have a limited range.

-John

"overwhelming force may crush truth to earth but,
crushed or not the truth is still the truth." -John S. Tilly

FiddlPat - Posted - 07/29/2009:  05:54:15

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Like Musicman93 writes, range is a factor, IF you know that the notes on different clefs are on different lines and spaces, and you can compensate with this knowledge in hand, with a key change, but/and also, if you don't know that the fourth space up on the bass clef is a G, not an E as it is on a treble clef(octaves aside), and even different still on a C clef(violas use this,) being an F note reading the 4th space up, you might be in trouble,,,,if you're playing a Bb trumpet, cornet, or clarinet, using the treble clef and play the E you see written on the fourth space up, it comes out sounding a D to the rest of the orchestra. When you play C on a Bb instrument, the orchestra hears a Bb note,,that's why it's called a Bb trumpet or cornet, or whatever.

Of course, you can pitch all that theory out the window, and read any clef as if it were treble clef(G clef), even though it be bass(F clef) or alto(C clef), and you'd get something, but it might sound sort of strange. I've taken sheet music and turned it upside down and read that,,,now that's odd,,but doable. Eb instruments such as an Eb saxophones see a C note written and play it, and the orchestra hears an Eb note. Now when THAT happens, with Bb or Eb, or any other noted instrument, it DOES have to do with range, and that's why it's done.

I don't mean to sound flip or cynical about turning the music upside down. I've done it, for laughs, and heard some interesting stuff.

The clefs tell you what note is what when you see them. The treble clef is the G clef, and you'll notice the circle in the G signet at far left, indicating treble clef, wraps its circle around the second line up, telling you that that line is where the G note is written. In the Bass, or F clef, the two dots immediately to the right of the F signet, incompassing the fourth line up tell you that that is where F is played, and with the alto clef, or C clef, the C figure embraces the middle, or third line up, telling you that the C note is played on that line.

Pat

Niel Gow''s epitaph:
Time and Gow are even now
Gow beat time and time beat Gow

Robertj711 - Posted - 11/17/2009:  15:37:21

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Hi Froglips,I did up some charts in my photo album section about how I convert from fiddle to guitar,I use this method to visualize the scale patterns used in a song on fiddle and apply them to guitar,originally this idea came from mandolin to guitar but expanded naturally to fiddle,then I applied it to dobro guitar as well and found it worked out better,its a good starting point to adapt a tune,well it helps me anyways.


fiddlehangout.com/myhangout/ph...bumid=661


come hither...............to go yonder.

EarlCameron - Posted - 12/06/2009:  18:42:41

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You can write for any instrument in any clef, you may need to write a little 8 at the bottom or top to transpose the octave and use many ledger lines. as long as you are talking string instruments there is no transposing to speak of.

FiddlinCol - Posted - 12/12/2009:  11:13:23

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GeeDay Ya'll,

Another idea, if you take the E and B strings off a guitar. 1st and 2nd strings.

Then you have a mirror image of fiddle chords.
Without the top strings on the guit, a G maj is played with 2nd finger 3rd fret 6th string.
1st finger 2nd fret 5th string.

On the fiddle, its 2nd finger G nat ( round about the 3rd fret) E string...Thin one!
and 1st finger B note ( 2nd fret). A string.

So if you hold either up against a mirror and it will be as clear as mud..

When it makes sense it is easy to swap chords between the two.

Cheers.