alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/08/2024:  05:36:04

Udio  was prompted to come up with an original composition, in style of Appalachia; and an Irish one. 

Making amazing progress in such a short time. I'm sure will make even more improvements in next few years. Kind of scary.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 05/08/2024 05:41:33

Udio's Emerald Jig

Udio's Holler

wrench13 - Posted - 05/08/2024:  11:43:34

I feel these are way off, same way AI has a problem with hands and fingers, having an AI write a tune in a specific style seems like you get a mish mash of notes but not much melody.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/08/2024:  12:38:29

We should let A I do all the work and difficult stuff, take care of everything for us, and give us leisure time to be the ones playing the music...lol...AI dod the work, people do the music.

DougD - Posted - 05/08/2024:  12:57:21

It doesn't have a very good sense of phrasing - or rhyme either.
I've come across some Wikipedia articles lately that made me wonder if they were written by human or machine.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 05/08/2024:  13:02:17

Muzak...At this point in time....But who knows where it's going?...It will probably be able to compose a tune to match your mood, on the spot according to the data received from your wrist watch in the future.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/08/2024:  18:35:03

Besides all this AI, ChatGPT, Copilot... I have hearing more about all this AI music stuff, and esp this Udio beta version, just released a few weeks ago, (as well as the Suno app). Was just curious to see what was all about, and how would do with more trad folk; with less of commercial library to learn from (compared to more mainstream/pop/commercial/classical film type music).

I was just curious where we are, what applications and impact might have in future. Thought I'd share quick results, if others are curious as well. Both apps are a big jump from 2-3 years ago; and quickly improving. (both are free to use, play around with). Be curious to hear others results.

Wasn't thinking in terms of appeal to most of us fiddlers, or trad/folk... but if average person casually heard those as recordings for music for a scene in movie, video, commercial jingle, event backing... would they easily notice it's not a real musicians, fiddler nor singer; perhaps be passable to them in that context? 

I was pretty surprised by the vocal, and fiddle, and that it did capture some stylistic aspects articulation. If I wasn't really paying attention, I probably would be fooled.

The lyrics/phrasing and melody could probably been tweaked to be better, I just opened app, didn't delve into, or know how to tweak in detail. This was probably total of 20 minutes from opening the app; using simple instructions/prompt, these just took Udio few minutes to entirely generate... not just compose, but final product (including the fiddle/vocals).  Could put in a little more time tweaking prompts to improve the composition/lyrics; can manually put in and/or fix lyrics. Can use shotgun approach, have it try many variation, similar attempts off that original idea; see what sticks.

Not suggesting we "should" use this; just maybe help grasp a bit of what's happening; and potential changing landscape. Where is this all going? is a good question... another discussion... fiddlehangout.com/topic/59045

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/08/2024:  18:52:11

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

It doesn't have a very good sense of phrasing - or rhyme either.

I've come across some Wikipedia articles lately that made me wonder if they were written by human or machine.

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I wonder, if just heard that on FHO jukebox, if really would have differentiated if wasn't just a human with not good writing skills, or sense of phrasing? I've heard a lot of humans do much worse. (including my own)

I didn't think the song that bad... could have easily edited and fixed the rhyme of the last line of each verse with word banjo or bow (or maybe something even more clever. It provided a good idea starting point, offers suggestions for songwriting (which is how some folks use these apps). The app let's go back and do such tweaks, or get more suggestions.

The Irish tune, while I pickup immediately a lack of great melodic tune structure, even something like AABB... keep in mind many if not most listeners, it probably wouldn't notice AABB, or melodic phrasing... don't notice those aspects in most other human Irish tunes... to them it might sound like stereotypical Irish music. 

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 05/08/2024 18:55:47

ChickenMan - Posted - 05/09/2024:  16:58:29

There ~is~ something a little creepy knowing it's machine made. The jig has Irish trad tropes, but the bot needs to stay away from whatever contemporary music influenced its melodic choices :-D

The OT song has fiddle and banjo, they're playing together and could easily fool a lot of folks.

Good thing I play with real live people so if they someday introduce a tune that is AI it will at least have a human touch.
I'm pretty sure they're human. And alive.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/09/2024:  17:48:22

That the vocals are machines is even more creepy.

The goal of these apps, isn't really about creating tunes fiddlers would play live; at jam, or dance. 

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/10/2024:  04:30:48

Thought I'd try another fiddle genre of Cajun music. Seems to have made bit more cohesive song. Again the vocal is is surprisingly good. 

Udio Cajun song

 

DougD - Posted - 05/10/2024:  05:34:36

"Surprisingly good?" It's not even in French!

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 05/10/2024:  11:44:50

I've probably mentioned this a hundred times on this website, but I worked many years at a motion picture studio, reading scripts and other literary material to gauge the quality of the piece and assess its financial potential if it were put onto the big screen. In any case, every so often the president of the studio would call me on the phone about a particular piece and ask/growl "Is it good?" In other words, a one word answer (at least from me) was more than good enough for him.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/10/2024:  13:39:24

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

"Surprisingly good?" It's not even in French!

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It is possible to tell it do it in French... I had thought about it; not sure if would do Cajun French

It actually did auto generate line

Laissez les bon temps roulez 

DougD - Posted - 05/11/2024:  04:38:01

Ask it to be bilingual and see how long it takes to come up with "'C'est la vie' say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell!"

BTW, when I first saw the title of this thread I thought it might be about the music of some town in Tuscany or a region in the Balkans, or maybe a small island near Borneo. Or even the playing of an individual somewhere in Galicia or a remote part of Brazil. Oh well.

Edited by - DougD on 05/11/2024 04:39:08

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/11/2024:  18:08:27

Sorry if didn't make clear. 

The point of my posting these wasn't to to see if could compose better song/tune, or have it create tunes or songs I or anyone would want to play or sing; in my mind that would make no sense. 

That would be playing what OTHERS have written (not you)... as a cover... there are already millions to choose from... from really good familiar ones, to most are tunes hardly any folks heard. No shortage of supply of existing materials or ideas made by humans. 

It was more experiment, wondering about how well it could create, perform, record, engineer... an end product for non-creators, non-musicians/singer to use for commercial purposes. The evaluation is as much if not more about quality of the instruments and singing, and production/recording. FWIW, it can generate covers of public domain, folks songs. 

Wondering for example, would an upcoming documentary film maker like Ken Burns, turn to and pay someone like Jay Unger (and all the others involved with Jay to produce that music) for their project, or AI? If had budget like Ken, would probably still use humans. But there is a lot of other uses, like in sync music, stock music needs; commercials, podcasts, YT videos, and of course film and TV. That up to now required humans to make; and helped many entirely or supplemental earn a living in music. Until last year or so wasn't much issue as was noticeable difference.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/11/2024:  19:16:26

quote:

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Muzak...At this point in time....But who knows where it's going?...It will probably be able to compose a tune to match your mood, on the spot according to the data received from your wrist watch in the future.

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I didn't do a great job with prompts; others made better.

You might find these others made interesting .. I discovered; just go to website and by search window...  "Irish".

Pub of the Rising Sun Kind of sounds like they scraped the Pogues?

We Should Welcome Our AI Overlords 

Rince na Réaltaí in Gaelic?

Fiddle tunes

udio.com/songs/vrbavDwYYQJyLppCVLa4DJ 

udio.com/songs/eKzawAkPoS1LJeHAu43kiN sure sounds like something that copied from Eileen Ivers recording, Crossing the Bridge?

I did notice a lot of the vocals (male and female) seem like the same few voices as models. And sort of recognizable. 

Beyond novelty of playing around... once get tired of that; what will folks actually do with these? Is there a demand for as you mention;  personal songs to match your mood or thoughts? Making a love song for significant other, maybe as proposal; birthday; or funny song about your buddy pooping pants? I don't see it, but maybe, I'm mistaken of that; happened before. I had no idea what anyone would do with a phone that can do all of these other things like a computer. 

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 05/11/2024 19:19:39

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/11/2024:  19:23:30

One thing might inspire musicians to realize it's not as difficult as thought to just compose, write songs, feel better about their efforts... get results as good as those?  

Peghead - Posted - 05/13/2024:  05:29:39

One step up from a monkey with a typewriter

Shawn Craver Fiddler - Posted - 05/13/2024:  07:26:08

i was thinking udio was the name of your band or project! and understand now that it's ai . no wonder why i wasnt quite tracking with these discussions.

Peghead - Posted - 05/13/2024:  17:39:59

I listened to them again and my second impression is not so disparaging. Actually, my wife and I broke into laughter at the old timey tune. It came off as a parody (to us) but an interesting one.  Eventually though this may get serious. Right now it seems to me that they contain the necessary note blocks  (albeit in cliched form) but lack clear intent and a clear cohesive musical theme and message, and of course emotional content. They kind of meander. Presently, you can see the line between the machine and the human, will that always be apparent? It reminds me of the bowing pattern discussions with Fiddle Pogo. Is old timey DNA in its bowing patterns. Can you reverse engineer a tune by applying various prescribed patterns or will that (and AI ) always produce a mutant.

Edited by - Peghead on 05/13/2024 17:57:21

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/17/2024:  16:55:19

quote:

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Originally posted by Peghead

I listened to them again and my second impression is not so disparaging. Actually, my wife and I broke into laughter at the old timey tune. It came off as a parody (to us) but an interesting one.  Eventually though this may get serious. Right now it seems to me that they contain the necessary note blocks  (albeit in cliched form) but lack clear intent and a clear cohesive musical theme and message, and of course emotional content. They kind of meander. Presently, you can see the line between the machine and the human, will that always be apparent? It reminds me of the bowing pattern discussions with Fiddle Pogo. Is old timey DNA in its bowing patterns. Can you reverse engineer a tune by applying various prescribed patterns or will that (and AI ) always produce a mutant.

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I think you and many others are trying to evaluate it as in foreground, pure active listening experience... and as fiddler or fan of that music, trying to listen to the composition, melody, music ideas... for just that active listening enjoyment, (or maybe as a tune to learn). Which wasn't the goal.

But as passive music... imagine if those sound files were used where the visual/video and/or narration were the foreground, the focus; music is just adding mood/ambiance part of the scenery. You could try it, by pulling up some YT video with similar context, and have the sound file play in background. For most folks, wouldn't be paying much attention to following lyrics or melody; thinking if a good song or tune. And of course target audience, have just kind of stereotype idea of those styles. "all those Irish tunes sound the same" (or Old-time). So just needs to fit stereotype, cliche.

Not sure what or why to reverse engineer or applying bow patterns? AI doesn't need to do any of that; AI is not physically playing a fiddle. It's an interesting technology that is learning how to analyze and model sound; including nuances and articulation; without priori what human thought important rules input.

There's also no logical reason for it to create what most of us are after in active listening to fiddling. No shortage of tunes that already exist, have access to; most we haven't heard or played.  For listeners... no shortage of recordings of human fiddlers, have easy access to and most haven't heard before, playing old and new tunes. (including what can listen cheap or free; probably haven't heard all of that).  Humans continue to make new tunes, arrangements and recordings, capable of fulfilling and demand for such.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 05/17/2024 16:57:18