mike jarboe - Posted - 07/21/2007:  03:19:31

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Just curious...this is not a referendum on reading music, but rather a poll to see who does it.

Choose one answer:

1. I read fluently and frequently employ it in my playing
2. I read fluently but don't use it much or at all in my playing
3. I read a little and struggle to do a little of it in my playing
4. I read a little but don't use it much or at all.
5. I don't read at all

If anyone can think of another option, feel free to add it.
My answer: 5. I don't read at all.

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Edited by - OTJunky on 05/30/2008 17:40:21

fiddlepogo - Posted - 07/21/2007:  04:24:43

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Number 3.
I can read, but it is tedious enough that I have a hard time
getting motivated.
I tend to print out a bunch of sheet music that has potential,
and basically "highgrade" (mining term for picking off the easy to get stuff) the pieces that show a lot of potential for not
too much effort.

I wish I had a Fender 5 string electric mandolin-
I can't handle double strings for more than a few minutes without excessive strain- (I've had a tendency to tendonitis for some time) but single strings would be doable,
and I would just use the instrument for sight reading.
For me, trying to read and maintain my bow tone is pretty
iffy, and when my bow tone goes downhill, my motivation
quickly disappears.

Michael

http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088
for mp3s, blog, and "Michael's Old Time Fiddle & Banjo Hour"

"We have met the enemy, and he is us!" - Walt Kelly's Pogo

scrubber - Posted - 07/21/2007:  05:27:15

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How about 1.5? I read music fluently, but choose not to use it (if possible) when fiddlin'.

I believe that the aural tradition of fiddlin' is important and only defer to the written page when no other option is readily available!

mjmjm - Posted - 07/21/2007:  05:29:58

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2.5 for me -- I read reasonably well and that's how I learn tunes.

oldtimer - Posted - 07/21/2007:  05:38:50

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4) I can read a little, but rarely use it. I believe in playing by ear. In addition to my "real" old-time music, I have been playing in a swing group,
'Django Djive" the last few years. Not my natural bag, but great fun. I occasionally use notation to get the drift of complex tunes like "Djangology" or "Latch Drom", but mostly I play the Django tunes by ear, too.

stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey


"Time passes unhindered"

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Edited by - oldtimer on 07/21/2007 05:40:34

bsed - Posted - 07/21/2007:  07:09:30

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Definitely a 4.
Like I said I started reading in 5th grade. Played in the University symphony orchestra in the mid 70s.
I actually think its good to be able to read a little, it helps if you find some written music like a jig in Fiddler Magazine or a tune in Dear Old Ill. and sources like that.
And I have a young student who I'm trying to teach to read. Only because when she gets older, I want her to have the background. But we're doing stuff by ear too. This is definitely an exception to my rule of teaching primarily aurally.

Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, "Let Newton be! and all was light."
-Alexander Pope

fiddlemaker - Posted - 07/21/2007:  07:46:59

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4 for me also. It has to be a simple piece of music for me to be able to read and play it.

Strings Attached Violin Shop
708 Charles St
Waynesboro, Va 22980

Fiddler - Posted - 07/21/2007:  08:30:25

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WIth 11 years of piano lessons as a kid, I can read fairly well, but it hasn't hurt my playing! I mainly learn by ear and don't use tune collections much.

fiddle music - "... it's for the uplifting of people. It's the highest, the most high, most high, most high...'' Marcus Martin

kyfiddler1 - Posted - 07/21/2007:  08:30:25

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4 for me...I sometimes learn a song from sheet music. I can't use it to play by unless it is simple single string.

Practice only on days that you eat!!

Kyfiddler1

fiddlebob - Posted - 07/21/2007:  08:34:00

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I'm almost a 2. (read fluently but don't use) I guess you could call me a closet reader. I use music to learn most of my tunes, but I NEVER take music when I play in public. This includes jam sessions. I sometimes even play the tune the way it's written. I find that this really speeds up the learning process for me.

fiddlebob

I never will be real good, but, I ain't as bad as I was!

OTJunky - Posted - 07/21/2007:  09:09:45

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I played trumpet through high school and college.

So, I learned all about reading music then.

I can read music on the violin - though nothing at all like a classical violinist can read music. But most fiddle tunes are relatively simple when notated without the stylistic nuances that all fiddlers use. So, I can read these just fine.

But I've found that for fiddling reading music is worse than useless.

Most of what fiddlers do to the melody to add rhythm and their stylistic idioms is really hard to notate exactly in written music, and when somebody like Marion Thede makes an valiant effort to notate it, the result is so complicated I've found it's not worth the time to figure out.

Reading music is definitely a left-brained thing, while fiddling is right-brained.

I've found that if I learn a tune by reading the music, I've learned something that I'm going to change dramatically anyway the first time I hear some fiddler play it. And I find it much easier to "memorize" things I learn by ear than things I learn from reading music which is OK because the things I learn by reading the music usually turn out to be not worth memorizing anyway.

-OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

tiquose - Posted - 07/21/2007:  09:18:52

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2.5. I have the music background (wind instruments in high school band and orchestra) to read pretty well, but I have trouble sight-reading with the fiddle. Both written music and listening come in handy for learning tunes; I can do either. To a point.

Janet

mrphysics55 - Posted - 07/21/2007:  09:22:30

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I'm a Big Ole 5!

Check-Out and Support www.fiddletunes.net

telln - Posted - 07/21/2007:  09:55:24

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Guess I am a 1.5. I read pretty good and have to learn from written music. I don't play Old Time style. After a few years of learning what notes sound like, I can pick out a few simple songs. It's fun, but for me a lot quicker to learn by reading.
I started at about a minis 10 on the music knowledge scale, so I have to copy others. But it still thrills me that I can make a noise that songs like a song, even if none of my personality is in it.
I envy Old Time fiddlers there ability to jam, which I could not do.
Telln

BrokenBowHair - Posted - 07/21/2007:  10:09:33

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I'm a 2...at least fluent enough to read fiddle music. :) I find learning a tune by ear much easier and faster. I have the Fiddlers' Fakebook and I have found when I try to learn from the book a tune that I'm familiar with the melody, most of the time I don't even recognize what I am playing. I have had the most success learning jigs and rags from written music, both of which I don't play much. I like to sit down with a book and my mandolin sometimes though...much easier to learn written music on the mando...maybe because no bowing is involved!

allenadale - Posted - 07/21/2007:  11:28:31

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1.5 for me. I can sightread, but prefer not to when I'm fiddling. Same for clawhammer. Now, classical guitar on the other hand, I've gotta have the music in front of me.

M-D - Posted - 07/21/2007:  11:31:54

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I'm a 5, though there are times I wish I was a 1.

_________________________________________________________________

M-D

Music is found in the space between the notes -- in the silence between the chords. Get your spaces right, and you've got it. ~ Albert Greenfield

Stanw - Posted - 07/21/2007:  12:23:15

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I'll go with 1.5. I read well but prefer to learn by ear. It is so hard to notate anything except the bare bones of an ot or celtic tune anyway,I'd rather get the tune in my head and move on from there.
StanW

devilsbox - Posted - 07/21/2007:  12:41:49

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4

I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would learn a tune from a piece of paper. It's alot of work. It must be a right brain left brain thingy.

That being said the last time I used a book was on Cyril Stinnett's The Threshen Tune. He played it so stinkin fast I could not figure out what he was doing on the high part.. And it was a case when Amazing Slowdowner was not much of a help. So on rare occasions I have been known to "cheat" abit. :-)

Larry

****************************************

Old Time Key Of C Fiddle Tunes

http://slippery-hill.com/c/

BanjoBrad - Posted - 07/21/2007:  13:16:43

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1.5 - Like Alanadale, I need the notes for classical guitar, when fiddling, I use the notes to learn the tune, but don't use them much after that. I am improving at learning by ear, but it has to be simple, slow and only the fiddle for me to hear what's happening.

When it comes to all the tricks and bowing and slides and double-stops and drones, ferget it!, I'm lost. Hopefully, I will improve on those essentials.

Larry, one of my complaints about ASD is that you can only cut the speed by half.


Banjo Brad
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
ezFolk Page

OTJunky - Posted - 07/21/2007:  13:21:54

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quote:

---

BanjoBrad wrote:
Larry, one of my complaints about ASD is that you can only cut the speed by half.

---

Hmmm... This isn't true with my copy of ASD. I can set it to any speed I'd like.

You have an eval copy or something?


-OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

fiddlerdi - Posted - 07/21/2007:  14:20:44

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I am definately a 2 on reading but I use my ear more often and listen to different versions, read different transcriptions, and come up with more of my own thing. It gets really fun when you can do your own creating!

FiddlerDi

fiddlepogo - Posted - 07/21/2007:  14:59:23

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Larry,

Quite possibly a right-brained, left-brained thing...
whatever it is, the two use <really> different brain circuits!

I tend to use sheet music mostly to learn slow airs and waltzes,
since I sometimes have a harder time picking up the whole
tune by ear in some cases.... and it's also easier to read.
Old Time fiddle tunes are so much easier to learn by ear
since my brain is programmed for them,
but there are a couple of more advanced tunes that I have
appreciated having the music for. This is hard work,
so I have to be very motivated and already know I like the version.
I'm also more likely to use sheet music for an Old Time tune
if I have it as just an option for a variation- sometimes I don't
like the whole setting that much, but can usually find some
interesting tidbits that could improve my version if I have one
already.
When I am tempted to dabble in another style like Irish or
Quebecois, having the sheet music makes it easier to get the
whole thing without my subconsciously filtering things out.

Michael

http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088
for mp3s, blog, and "Michael's Old Time Fiddle & Banjo Hour"

"We have met the enemy, and he is us!" - Walt Kelly's Pogo

Rachel in WV - Posted - 07/21/2007:  17:48:26

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When it comes to playing drums I'm a 2. With trumpet I'm a 1. I've only had my fiddle for a few days now so I can't say for sure, but my teacher intends to teach me to play by ear, so we're shooting for a 2 on that one too.

Rachel

BanjoBrad - Posted - 07/21/2007:  17:50:01

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quote:

---

Originally posted by OTJunky

quote:

---

BanjoBrad wrote:
Larry, one of my complaints about ASD is that you can only cut the speed by half.

---

Hmmm... This isn't true with my copy of ASD. I can set it to any speed I'd like.

You have an eval copy or something?


-OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

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Yeah - I haven't committed the $50 yet - I keep hoping that Transkriber will update a version for iMac. That is, in my estimation, the ultimate slow down program.

(edited almost immediately after posting):
Actually, I have to take that back. I just double checked and ASD will allow full control. It was an applescript thing to run under iTunes that has the 50% thing. But I think I remember that you have to manually adjust the pitch up as you slow the tune down - or is there a way to keep pitch? I don't really use either very much, and with no hardcopy manual, they're all difficult to figure out!


Banjo Brad
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
ezFolk Page

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Edited by - BanjoBrad on 07/21/2007 17:53:35

woodwiz - Posted - 07/21/2007:  18:33:26

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Take another look at "Transcribe!" and Amazing Slow Downer. I evaluated them all about a year ago, and Transkriber didn't come close to making the final cut. for me.

Both ASD and Transcribe! will allow you to reduce or increase speed in a little as 1% increments to below 25% with usable sound, and without altering pitch. You can also adjust pitch independently in 1-cent increments. They are both very intuitive and easy to use. I like Transcribe! better because it has a frequency analyzer and a couple of other tools that I like a lot, but ASD is a very good product, too. Transcribe! works with the latest Mac equipment, and ASD works with OS_X. both have free evaluation downloads.

The reviews on the Transkriber site are 8 years old, a lifetime in the computer world. I could have missed something when I was evaluating Transkriber but it seemed to be the one that was hard to figure out

Michael R

www.kcstrings.com

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Edited by - woodwiz on 07/21/2007 18:34:01

FrancescaNFiddler - Posted - 07/21/2007:  21:21:24

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MIke and everyone, I am a 1. However in the topic playing by ear I talk about my struggle with sheet music so I won;t repeat it here. I wish my ear and memory was much better, but overall I hear that my ear is getting a time bit better, a small bit at a time, each time I play, but I still cannot memorize anything.

Francesca from New Jersey

BanjoBrad - Posted - 07/21/2007:  21:34:22

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Where can I find a link to "Transcribe!"? (That looks weird.) I haven't found anyplace to download and evaluate it.

I started using Transkriber back in 2003, I believe, and found it very easy to use once I figured out how to get a tune into it. At least it had a printed manual, something the computer industry has forgotten how to do, it seems.


Banjo Brad
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
ezFolk Page

SlowPockets - Posted - 07/21/2007:  21:44:31

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Put me down for a number 2.

woodwiz - Posted - 07/21/2007:  22:53:02

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quote:

---

Originally posted by BanjoBrad

Where can I find a link to "Transcribe!"? (That looks weird.) I haven't found anyplace to download and evaluate it.

---

http://www.seventhstring.com/xscribe/download.html

Michael R

www.kcstrings.com

allenadale - Posted - 07/22/2007:  00:04:26

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I have Transcribe! and ASD. I don't use ASD much. I agree that Transcribe! is the better of the two, what with it's frequency analyzer and all.

janolov - Posted - 07/22/2007:  03:22:05

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2. I read fluently but don't use it much or at all in my playing

I prefer notation for fiddle but tab for banjo

Jan-Olov

devilsbox - Posted - 07/22/2007:  05:44:40

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quote:

---

Originally posted by FrancescaNFiddler

but I still cannot memorize anything.

---

I spent the better part of two years listening to Bruce Greene (I'm a big BG nut) field recordings. When I wanted to learn one of his tunes it's already in my head. Didn't have to memorize a damn thing. Just a matter of working it out on the fiddle, which takes minutes in most cases.

The few tunes I've tried to get from a piece of paper do not sound like the recordings and I don't retain them. Not only was it a lot of work, it is a wast of time for me.

The key for me is to listen, listen, listen!!

Larry

****************************************

Old Time Key Of C Fiddle Tunes

http://slippery-hill.com/c/

Chaoscat - Posted - 07/22/2007:  07:45:09

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Definitely a 1. I can and do occassionally learn music by ear, but I usually only do that to:
- practice the skill
-I don't have the dots
-the dot's just don't relay whats going on in the tune.

I know it's not the "traditional" way, so shoot me if I just don't care. I also believe in regular bathing, buy my butter in a store and let somebody else distill the liquor.



***********************************************************************************************************
If you're fiddlin' in the grave yard and a banjo joins in - don't run until he hits the break. Even a DEAD banjo player ain't gonna give that up to come after you.

oldtimer - Posted - 07/22/2007:  12:49:02

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chaoscat
I know it's not the "traditional" way, so shoot me if I just don't care. I also believe in regular bathing, buy my butter in a store and let somebody else distill the liquor.

---

....and wearing a cowboy hat indoors in New Jersey.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. No offense intended. My dad grew up in a family of seven in a one room log cabin with a dirt floor...in the hills of Arkansas. I'm very proud of my heritage and grateful for it.

stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey

"Time passes unhindered"

FiddleJammer - Posted - 07/22/2007:  20:39:24

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Perhaps worth mentioning that my Sony Minidisc recorder can also slow down tunes. (Yes, I know they're from the stone age, but I still like mine.)

Terri

tunelist, musings, and podcasts at
http://fiddlejammer.blogspot.com

BanjoBrad - Posted - 07/22/2007:  21:59:24

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WW-

Thanks, I've bookmarked that site, and will download the trial when I want to try it. I don't do a lot of this, so a 30 day time limit sometimes means I don't even get to try it!


Banjo Brad
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
ezFolk Page

woodwiz - Posted - 07/22/2007:  22:57:02

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BTW, I read poorly. I mostly use it to transcribe tunes once I have them figured out, so I won't forget them so easily. Can't sight read, but can play from the dots once I know a song.

Michael R

www.kcstrings.com

krugwaffle - Posted - 07/23/2007:  00:34:19

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I'm a 3. I learned music reading with guitar and am very fluent with that instrument. Now along comes a fiddle and it's just similar enough to make sight reading confusing. I usually end up playing the music on the guitar and learning it by ear on the fiddle. Sheet music does come in handy for getting a handle on the little ornaments and flourishes that can be hard to pick up with the ear.

Coupedefleur - Posted - 07/23/2007:  07:28:05

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I'm in #2. Though with an Early Music / Renaissance / Baroque background it's more common to play from a score but to disregard it to some degree.

Abenaki - Posted - 07/23/2007:  10:17:44

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Chalk up another 2.
The tunes I play are from listening to records or learning from other fiddlers. But recently, a good portion of my practice time is reading music exercises to improve my skills. Texas contest music is the only material that find that translates well in scores, probably due to it's single note style.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Scales, scales, scales. The fish will come later. . .
Aw the heck with it, I gotta fiddle!

Midwest_Fiddler - Posted - 07/23/2007:  13:30:30

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I am a 5. I do wish I could read however. I used to read for vocal music in HS, but never used it for mandolin or fiddle.
My buddy, Paul Tyler, reads well and it has allowed him to revive some old tunes from early 19th century fiddle tune manuscripts. so, I think it's a useful skill for sure.
Chirps

Rachel Streich - Posted - 07/23/2007:  16:46:43

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I'm probably either a 1.5 or a 2. I can read pretty well but usually prefer to learn tunes by ear or from other musicians. I will sometimes resort to sheet music if there's a tune I want to learn that I don't have a recording of -- but I memorize it as soon as possible, then put the sheet music away and play from memory.

Sometimes for fun, I'll pull out a fiddle tune book like The Portland Collection and sight-read through some unfamiliar tunes just to see what they sound like and practice my reading.

I took a fiddle workshop at Augusta Heritage Center one summer with James Bryan. He's gotten a number of tunes out of old obscure 19th Century tune collections, and said that his preferred method of doing this is to tape-record himself sight-reading the tune out of the book, then put the book away and learn the tune by ear off of the recording.

nilejam - Posted - 07/23/2007:  18:43:44

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A 1 or 1.5. I can read no problem and use it to pick up tunes. Some things I pick up be ear. Usually after I get the base melody, I work out "my version" of whatever tune it is. I am trying to commit stuff to memory, but its a slow go.

The classical stuff is all written out, as are some exercises, scales etc.. I'm also trying to work on my improvisation skills none of which is written. No matter how much I read, listening is still one of the most important skills I keep trying to develop. The nice thing about listening critically is that it improves no matter which instrument I play, the more I play any instrument, the better.

jeff

wilford - Posted - 07/23/2007:  19:24:19

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# 2 for me. I'm perfectly capable of # 1 but I don't ever run into finished sheet music that has transcribed the tune fashionably.

pauloz - Posted - 07/24/2007:  08:10:49

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I guess I'm a 1 - I read well enough and frequently use the notation when playing (even in a group), and that's how I start with most tunes.

That being said, I try to memorize the tunes as soon as possible and that really frees up my mind to concentrate on the music, my playing and the playing of those around me. It's only then that I feel I am starting to learn the tune.

I have also learnt quite a few tunes by ear - it takes time and I usually like to have some sheet music to fall back on when I can't remember the whole tune. But I think this is a great way to pick up the feel of the tune (or at least the feel of the person you listened to). I'm not sure how to describe it, but the tunes I learn this way seem to me to have a very different feel than the others. I am trying to learn more by ear.

fiddlinjim - Posted - 07/24/2007:  08:45:37

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I'm likely somewhere between a 3 and 4. I can read the notes know where my fingers should be,. If I'm trying to learn a new by ear and cannot pick out all the notes used, often times I'll dig out some sheet music..playing by ear is so much better for me in learning to play a tune and adapt it to my style of playing.

hardykefes - Posted - 07/24/2007:  13:03:43

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1.5 for me
I sightread fluently as long as it's not written with more than 4 b's or more than 5 #'s.
I prefer not using it while fiddling and try to memorize as much as possible, the rest is improvising.
I do use it for classical music. Although I believe it would sound better if I would have momorized it, I am just too lazy memorizing classical pieces with a very few exceptions.
Fiddle tunes are so much more fun.
I do use sightreading on new fiddle tunes where nobody can teach em to me. At least I have access to this music in this way.

Violin/Fiddle Instructor and Repair Service

BanjoBrad - Posted - 07/24/2007:  16:22:29

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Hardy said: "I do use sightreading on new fiddle tunes where nobody can teach em to me. At least I have access to this music in this way."

And, that, I believe, is the crux of the matter! Maybe not even being a competent sight-reader, but being able to put the notes on the fingerboard. Like the second sentence says, being able to read music gives you access to it when other methods may not be available.


Banjo Brad
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
ezFolk Page