Renaissance_Woman - Posted - 07/18/2007:  11:25:54

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Last year when I started learning new instruments, I decided I'd better brush up on music theory. I ordered a used copy of Alfred's "Essentials of Music Theory" from www.alibris.com or some other used online book company. It's been a useful addition!

The book is comprised of lessons to enhance your understanding of note values, time signatures...even ear training.

There are actually three books in the series (I only bought Book 1) and brand new, the book alone costs $12.50. The book and 2 CDs, $31.50. I have the book and CDs which probably cost about the same as the book alone as it was 'gently' used.

Just thought I'd pass this on...

Suze
Making music for the JOY of it!

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Edited by - OTJunky on 05/30/2008 17:39:23

kyfiddler1 - Posted - 07/18/2007:  14:56:02

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I bought fiddle theory books 1 & 2 from Rayna Babette Allen http://www.raynababette.com/. She is a fiddle teacher.
These are real good to learn theroy for fiddle. Both were $25.00. I have no interest in this just trying to help someone.

Practice only on days that you eat!!

Kyfiddler1

hardykefes - Posted - 07/19/2007:  16:19:50

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I can recommend the ChordWizard, a software which leads you thru the music theory step by step with acoustic examples.
I like it a lot. Available from same comp[any is SongTrix and Chord program where you can listen to the chors or create your own and than listen to it. You can preset the instrument. With SongTrix you can create your bass and rhytm for your song and play to it.
Look under www.chordwizard.com

Violin/Fiddle Instructor and Repair Service

ginny_elrod - Posted - 07/25/2007:  11:21:27

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I am a beginner in "fiddling". I was wondering if anyone knows how to explain playing in D major?

OTJunky - Posted - 07/25/2007:  12:37:42

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quote:

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ginny_elrod wrote:
I am a beginner in "fiddling". I was wondering if anyone knows how to explain playing in D major?

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Here's what I said in a comment to your blog entry on this...

quote:

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OTJunky wrote:
It means that whatever tune you're playing only uses the notes that are in the D Major scale.

Or - D, E, F-Sharp, G, A, B, C-Sharp, and D (again).

There are lots of other scales with their own sets of notes - some major, some minor and some modal.

You might just want to start a thread with this question in the "Music Theory" of the Forum.

It's an interesting subject that a lot of fiddler's don't explore fully - and there are people on the Forum that can teach you more Music Theory like this than you'll ever want to know.

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I'm glad to see you took the advice and added on to this thread. But I guess this didn't answer your question?

So, I'm wondering if you can say a bit more about the question. Is it that you're not yet familiar with the names of the notes on the fiddle?

Or maybe someone else can provide a better answer.

-OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

hardykefes - Posted - 07/27/2007:  12:15:49

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Playing in a certain key, example DMajor.
For a basic melody construction you have a basic key (here Dmajor) which is also called the 'tonica'.
two other scales are now related to this key in the basic version.
The first is called 'dominant' and starts 5 tones (5 steps) higher than the tonica, For the Key of D it would be the A-Scale or A-chord.
The second is called the 'subdominant' which starts one tone below the 5th = four tones higher than the tonica. This is Equal to 5 tones below the tonica. For the key of D it is the G chord.
Now we fiddlers are lucky that our fiddles are tuned in 5th. If somebody says we play in the K of D we automatically know that we use the basic D-chord plus the chords of the two adjacent strings G and A.
Somebody plays in F#? use your 2nd finger on D-string and look to the next strings and you know you'll need a C# and a B
Difference between major and minor chor in the simpliest way is just the 3rd note flattened. ForD scale the third note is a F# in the major scale, a F in the minor scale.

Violin/Fiddle Instructor and Repair Service

hardykefes - Posted - 07/27/2007:  12:17:59

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... forgot to add:
in the Nashville numbering system you would name the tonica 'I' (one), the dominant 'V' (five) and the subdominant 'IV' (four),
In some jams you can watch somebody anouncing silently the chords by holging up the # of fingers according to Nashville numbering system.

Violin/Fiddle Instructor and Repair Service

OTJunky - Posted - 07/27/2007:  13:06:03

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Ahhh - but you forgot to mention that when playing against the A-chord in the key of D, you'd want to use the A Mixolydian mode scale rather than the A Major scale (Ionian Mode).

And that when playing against the G-chord in the key of D, it's best to avoid the 4th note of the G major scale since that note, a C natural, doesn't fit in the D Major scale - unless, of course, you want to start giving things a "bluesy" twist. Then you can play the C natural since that's the flat 7th of the D scale.

Or to be safe, you can just use the notes in the pentatonic scales and not worry about bumping into anything atonal.

Sigh - this stuff is really complicated. Much easier to do than to talk about. And I haven't really run across any music theory book that explains this stuff the way it's really used in fiddling.

Hardy, might be time to write one - could be your path to fame and fortune...


-OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

FiddleJammer - Posted - 07/27/2007:  14:12:34

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Some resources on scales-

Steps (W = whole; H = Half)
Major: WWHWWWH
Minor: WHWWHWW
Mixolydian: WWHWWHW
Dorian:WHWWWHW

Circle of fifths in plain English-
http://www.voyagerrecords.com/arcirc.htm

And, most handy, the fretboard printer-
http://www.studybass.com/tools/chor...ote-printer/
At this website, you can pick a note, a scale, a chord and create a diagram of a fiddle 'fretboard' to visualize where the notes are. So, if you want to learn more about the key of D major, you can create a diagram for the D major scale and D major chords. It will even make diagrams for left handed views.

The short scoop on playing in D, is to begin to recognize the finger patterns for the D scale. Each key signature has typical patterns, based on sharps / flats, whole steps / half steps. Once you recognize how D is different from A is different from G... you're on your way to playing by ear in a jam.

I've found these items very helpful for trying to figure out music theory for fiddlers. Good luck with your learning.

Terri

tunelist, musings, and podcasts at
http://fiddlejammer.blogspot.com

ginny_elrod - Posted - 07/27/2007:  16:14:59

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Basically what everyone is trying to tell me is that .........
to play a song in D major is to play the notes all regular.


My history in music is with woodwind instruments. In that part of music if a song is played in the key of D evey D note is a D. If the song is played in the key of F# then all the F are played F# no matter if it is written F or F#.

So, that's where the question is stemmed from.

But now I have the notes down for the D major thanks to everyone's help.

ladymuse - Posted - 08/03/2007:  01:47:47

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I'm glad you got it down! - I was going to say,

Start on the open d string, and sing along with the doe a deer song form the trapp family - (Laugh!) and play it - you'll get familiar with the D Major scale (western civilization), and where your fingers are going to go on all the strings - (and run them down on the g string too).

Aside form the different modal things, (that will come) knowing your simple Majors -D,G,A, C- (and minors) etc - and where your fingers will "hear/play em" on any string (fingering of) will set you free -

There is a great reason to play your scales - not just tone quality - but you want to get over the thinking about where to put your fingers - the goal being that if someone says D Major (or just D) you will already have automatic chops on where the f# and c#s are.

Although certain woodwinds are transposable, the music theory holds true across the boards - the main thing is learn your fingering for the major and minor scales on the fiddle to start -

the notes you read are the concert pitch sounds. (note d sounds d - etc. Scales are the same sounding major and minor that we know - modes will come and you will pick them up easily -

Jen! (who knows her minors - all 3 different ones etc - and can't remember which one's is the nat, melodic etc) But I can hear and play 'em without thinking -

All fid up and loving it!

Monkey - Posted - 08/06/2007:  10:57:28

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ginny:

>In that part of music if a song is played in the key of D evey D note is a D. If the song is played in the key of F# then all the F are played F# no matter if it is written F or F#.

Sounds like you are referring to the key signature here (http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory9.htm). The sharps or flats (in some cases a mix) that appear at the left of every staff. Yes, this is the rule - when the key signature is for D Major (2 sharps) every f and c note appearing on the staff is supposed to be an f# and c#. This is a shorthand. If you do see an f or c redundantly labeled with a sharp, it is just a reminder. If the note really is supposed to be an f natural or c natural, there will be a natural sign in front of it to override the key signature. Look up "accidentals" in your theory book for more info.

ladymuse - Posted - 08/08/2007:  04:18:59

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Just thought I would pass this on -
I got to the first Jam of the NNBA tonight - and was talking to the only other fiddler that came - (brand new and beginner - but we are still going to get together)

She mentioned that this was incredibly helpful - since it is music theory oriented to fiddlers who shy away from it - ("I Can't....

(2 books for those who suffer from hieroglypheseia)

HOKUM:Theory and Scales for Fiddle Tunes and Fiddle improvisation $18.95
Leon Grizzard
This book was written for three purposes:(1) to teach music theory and scales as applied to fiddle tunes in the American/Celtic traditions;(2) to teach fiddle improvisation;(3) to present additional material for the fiddler who wants to play in other popular styles. Clearly laid out and explained, this book will be extremely helpful in expanding a fiddlers' musical understanding of their craft. Examples are illustrated with familiar repetoire exerpts. Highly recommended
(this she got from maple leaf music)

Of Course You Can Learn to Read music for the Fiddle $18
Gordon Stobbe
A well laid out instruction manual on how to read fiddle music! For those of you who say "I Can't"!

I think this was also maple leaf music

Jen - who might just have another blog entry! (soon!)


All fid up and loving it!

fiddlenbanjo - Posted - 08/15/2007:  11:07:21

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I'll add Matt Glaser's Ear Training Course from Homespun Tapes as another GREAT way to get started learning music theory and developing the ear at the same time.

Matt is a great teacher and even plays many of the exercices on the fiddle as well. I believe he has been head of the string department at Berkley School of Music in Boston for many years and really knows how to impart information that can become confusing in a very clear and easy to understand manner. The dude knows his stuff. His exercises on the blues alone are some of the best time I've ever spent on the fiddle. These CDs are immediately applicable to every song you'll ever play on the fiddle.

I have no financial interest in this at all but if you have any interest in ever doing any kind of improvisation on the fiddle, I guarantee this course will help you.

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Edited by - fiddlenbanjo on 08/15/2007 11:14:28

ronjo843 - Posted - 08/24/2007:  00:23:04

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Am I missing something here? I am well versed at music theory, and can read music. Why use all the talk about the 3 basic chords in any key? All it is, is the dominant chord is the key your playing in, and the other 2 are nothing more than the 4 and 5 chord of the dominant scale. there are only 7 notes in any major scale. So all you have to do is count to 4 or 5 of that scale. Very simple. and if a fourth chord is in the song, most likely it will be the 2 chord.

BanjoBrad - Posted - 08/24/2007:  17:32:56

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ronjo843-

But, you're looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who has music knowledge. The 3 basic chords are the fastest way to get a new player with no knowledge started playing and/or singing along. Unless they are a rare breed who must know the why before the how, learning the C, F and G7 or the A, D and E7 chords will start them hearing how they work in a tune/song and they will be having fun and "making music" long before they would if they started with theory alone. I remember (believe it or not) how long I had piano lessons, doing scales and note-finding exercises before I got to start playing a song. It was only because I wanted to make music (and my parents <g>) that I continued through those first 6 weeks.



Banjo Brad
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
ezFolk Page

Sky - Posted - 09/04/2007:  22:55:49

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Once again, a day late and a dollar short.
But I wanted to add that Chord Wizard is an excellent program.
Cheap for what's in it.

Sky

ladymuse - Posted - 09/05/2007:  03:01:04

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The three basic chords - yes, it is easy music theory-wise, if one is versed in it -
however, note this, all ye who want to play a song with learnin' your notes!

The 3 basic chords, (1, 4, 5) - or G-C-D, etc (major,minor)
are the chords that can harmonize almost for any regular melody - and gives a starter a beginning hold on being able to play along .

You can get fancy later -

If you are familiar with the scale, and have a keyboard or someone who plays, sing/ play your scale while they play these chords underneath you - on every note.

If you were do play a major scale (or minor. with `m` after the chord name) up and down, every one of those notes in a basic melody can be harmonized by the 1, 4,5, basic chords.

It also gives you a Bass/tonic note for every chord. I have seen too many who gave up music because they couldn't "play to a win" - get something under their belt that gave them a reason to learn more from natural interest)

and although it is the3 basics that will just about get you anywhere, most of the time, it always helps to know your 5(7th) chords!
(and the notes for that).
5 chords always work, but 5(7th) chords will drive the melody along when used at the right points -

Jen

C Major Scale:........C.....D....E....F....G.... A.... B........ C
and your chords:....1.....5....1.....4.....1.....4.....5(7).....1
Or reg chords.........C....G....C.....F....C.....F....G(7)....C

Same with the G scale:

G Major scale:....G......A......B......C.....D.....E.....F#.......G
& the 3 basics.....1.......5......1.......4.....1......4.....5(7).....G
Or reg chords:.....G......D.....G.......C....G......C....D(7)....G

I may never be the smoothest, but I play with a lot of gusto!

ladymuse - Posted - 09/06/2007:  22:12:06

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Also, though this isn't chords,

here is the best way to see and here the modes -

all you have to do is compare a major (doe ray mee) scale, be able to count your degrees - (ie:1-2-3-4-5-6-7-)

and follow the chart - (real simple layout for every mode - (you can see how they relate, easily) you are only playing one scale at a time)

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Music:Modes

ladymuse - Posted - 06/01/2008:  01:44:31

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Hey - I see OT Junky listed as last poster, yet I don't have him appearing! Wah! I wanted to read!

jen