soppinthegravy - Posted - 11/30/2017:  20:45:33

I don't understand why contra dancing is now more popular than square dancing among young people. It's a good style of dance, but I'm afraid nobody will carry on the old squares. Any suggestions on how to make the Southern, two-couple squares appealing to this generation without changing anything about the calls or figures?

Edited by - soppinthegravy on 11/30/2017 20:50:28

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/01/2017:  05:08:27

Up here in Iowa I play for what we call ‘barn dances’ which includes big circle dances, 4 couple squares (I’m curious about 2 couple squares) three couple triplets as well as contras and other long line mixer dances. Most of the people want the mix and not just contras. One thing about contras that might be appealing is the fact that the caller often can just drop out as the dancers internalize the dance. As a player, I love it when the caller gets out of the way of the music  and the dancers seem to like too.

When I started playing, the guy I was learning from threw square dances on a monthly basis. Nowadays, he puts on old time workshops that include squares if there is enough interest among the attendees.

Fiddler - Posted - 12/01/2017:  07:55:01

Here's my perspective...

Contras are more popular because:

• Not confined to multiples of 8 (4 couples)


• Music is the main focus - not the caller
  
  
  
  • High energy - typically 115 -120 bpm.
  
  
  • Traditional music is common - Celtic roots, but OT also will also work - most of the music must have a 32 bar (AABB) structure
  
  
  • New and innovative music forms frequently used
  
  
  
  


• "Calling" or "Prompting" is not as complicated as for squares where patter and singing calls are common


• Figures are repetitious, so after a few cycles, dancers can enjoy moving with each other to the music


• LOTS of swinging, aka the DF "Dizzy Factor"
  
  
  
  • This is one reason why older folks are moving to English Country dancing.
  
  
  
  


• TechnoContra (Look it up. Black lights, strobes, electronic music, etc. Yes, it's a thing!!)


• No special clothes needed
  
  
  
  • Perception that special "outfits" are needed, especially for women
  
  
  
  


• No experience or classes are needed to do a contra dance


• Contra dances are "forgiving." If you mess up, it's ok.


• Many contra dances allow for some time briefly visit/flirt with your partner during the dance.


• Many partners!! Don't like a person. Don't worry. You'll be rid of them soon.


• Contra programs usually include circle mixers and running sets.

Southern squares are not going away!! Many contra dances incorporate Southern squares and New England squares in the dance program. They also include some innovative forms such as pentagons (Levi Jackson Rag). Dancers request these. They are different and add a little variety to the program.

You will also find that dancers will request special couple dances such as waltzes, schottiches, polkas, polskas and hambos.

Here's a story that was on NPR about this very topic!

npr.org/templates/story/story....128273050

Note: Edited for typos.  ugghh...

Edited by - Fiddler on 12/01/2017 08:07:09

soppinthegravy - Posted - 12/01/2017:  11:32:40

1. All dancers on the floor join hands in one big circle and circle to the left.


2. They change directions, circling to the right.


3. All dancers break their holds.


4. The gents swing their left-hand ladies (corners).


5. The gents swing their partners.


6.  The odd-numbered couples join hands with the nearest even-numbered couples (which should be to the right of the odd couple) in circles of four (four people, two couples each).


7. Each circle of four does the same figure, such as Right Hands Across or Cage the Bird.


8. Dancers break holds.


9. Swing corners.


10. Swing partners.


11. Odd couples move on to the next even couple on their right. Even couples stand still. This structure is always maintained. Odds "travel" and evens "stay at home".


12. Repeat steps 6-11 until ready to end the dance. Then,


13. All dancers go back in one big circle where they can do a closing figure such as Wind the Clock.


14. Break holds


15. Swing corners.


16. Swing partners.


17. Dancers promenade to their seats.


18. Give dancers the option to buckdance to the music until the band stops.   

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChickenMan

Up here in Iowa I play for what we call ‘barn dances’ which includes big circle dances, 4 couple squares (I’m curious about 2 couple squares) three couple triplets as well as contras and other long line mixer dances. Most of the people want the mix and not just contras. One thing about contras that might be appealing is the fact that the caller often can just drop out as the dancers internalize the dance. As a player, I love it when the caller gets out of the way of the music  and the dancers seem to like too.

When I started playing, the guy I was learning from threw square dances on a monthly basis. Nowadays, he puts on old time workshops that include squares if there is enough interest among the attendees.

---

alaskafiddler - Posted - 12/01/2017:  16:51:55

What you describe is what many would call a Circle dance (or Sicilian Circle), or big set. They progress more like Contas, just in a circle rather than lines.

Square formations are 4 couples making a square. With head couples and side couples. They progress in different ways. 

They all use many of the same 2 couple figures.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 12/01/2017:  22:07:57

I wouldn't look good in a frilly skirt.

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/02/2017:  06:20:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by TuneWeaver 

I wouldn't look good in a frilly skirt.

---

Everyone looks good in the skirts the caller provides when there’s not enough ladies. Also the ladies look good in the ties provided when the gents are few (more often the case). Not that gender roles matter so much when dancing, it’s to help avoid confusion. 

Yes that describes a circle dance as we do it, and the two couple square, as that defines it, is the basis for contra dances. You dance with another couple for a turn of the music, then move on to the next. I would guess the reason contras are popular does have to do with each dance being a set dance that only relies on the caller long enough to get the dance in your bones, rather than the constant patter type squares. You don’t have to focus on “what’s next?” so much. 

Edited by - ChickenMan on 12/02/2017 06:26:16

TuneWeaver - Posted - 12/02/2017:  06:41:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChickenMan

quote:

---

Originally posted by TuneWeaver 

I wouldn't look good in a frilly skirt.

---

Everyone looks good in the skirts the caller provides when there’s not enough ladies. Also the ladies look good in the ties provided when the gents are few (more often the case). Not that gender roles matter so much when dancing, it’s to help avoid confusion. 

Yes that describes a circle dance as we do it, and the two couple square, as that defines it, is the basis for contra dances. You dance with another couple for a turn of the music, then move on to the next. I would guess the reason contras are popular does have to do with each dance being a set dance that only relies on the caller long enough to get the dance in your bones, rather than the constant patter type squares. You don’t have to focus on “what’s next?” so much. 

---

Several years ago I had spent weeks trying to convince a man and his wife to attend the local contra dance.. FINALLY<  one night when I was in the band, he and his wife came in and sat down... When  the next contra  was over I looked in the direction of where they had been sitting and noticed that they were nowhere to be seen.. A few days later I was chatting with him and I asked why he had left  without having danced..His reply was.."Well, we were just getting up the nerve to get in line for the next contra and in walked a man wearing a SKIRT.. I looked at my wife and she looked at me and we decided then and there that these are not our kind of people."    Takes all kinds, I guess.

carlb - Posted - 12/02/2017:  06:49:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddler

Contras are more popular because:

• Figures are repetitious, so after a few cycles, dancers can enjoy moving with each other to the music

---

Personally, I much prefer moving to square dance music rather then New England contra dance music.

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/02/2017:  07:53:12

That's the beauty of the dances I play for, I just play my regular repertoire while being conscious of the 32 bar criteria. I'll occasionally get to play a 3 part tune like "Texas Gals" or "Ragtime Annie"

alaskafiddler - Posted - 12/02/2017:  08:46:33

Our local dance scene has also went to preferring contras... but that seems to be more of as our crowd got older... decades when those folks were younger; fast driving (yet simple) southern squares used to be as popular. I think there are lots of reasons; different expectations, of what makes good square dancing (sometimes hard to balance) ; but what many various complaints why they don't like squares (compared to contras):

A. Not enough active dancing, or just enjoying the feel of dancing.

1. Many dances have long inactive parts, watch and wait.


2. The Walk-thru can be overly long; much more "huh? what?, I'm lost"


3. Can require more mental attention to focus on, rather than focus on feeling a flowing groove.


4. Requires full 8 (4 couples). Can be hard to get that last square formed.

B. Squares can have figures that are downright twisty or complex. These are less dependent on phrased with the music, and figures can seem confusing perhaps chaotic; non-symmetric, unintuitive, seems lack of predictable structure; results in sometimes losing your partner, or position orientation for a while, only to miraculously end up up with swing your partner at home; if it all works right. They can also easily fall apart somewhere, not ending up where you should or not with your partner. (esp at fast tempo, or with less experienced) - There is also a bit of lack of control. Not easy to recover the set mid-dance. For some dancers they find that frustrating. Some folks it really bothers them if square messes up, doesn't get it right, fail.

C. That some callers (and dancers) have leaned to like intricate twisty complex squares; more about precision, execution and getting it to come out right; to achieve that, sometimes go a bit too slow tempo (as well as more walk thru). But for others those slower tempo squares lack a great sense of tempo, drive, flow, dance groove.

D. Some older dancers don't like the fast tempo (128bpm+) of some southern squares; feel like too much rushing, running, racing.  And some squares have a lot more long swings and turns...  at fast tempo, makes them more dizzy than contras.

E. The music (or musicians).

1. Figures not phrased with music. 


2. Some have a hard time with some  traditional southern music, can be a bit too smooth/subtle/syncopated or busy for some dancers, from lacking a strong beat, to ambiguous phrasing, parts, chord changes distinction.


3. On the other hand, some musicians are not a good match, lack good fast, driving rhythmic flow for squares. If lacking, can make the dancers experience less exciting. (surprising how many musicians don't dance).

-------

I think there are some other reasons (related to above) that made southern squares lose favor in our area, mostly a change in how folks think of and approach dance and music.