SlowPockets - Posted - 06/22/2007:  16:32:28

Seeing as how most of the people on here (maybe all at this point) are from the BHO, how much of that tinkering nature do y'all think is going to carry over to this site? I know on most other sites whenever a question regarding changing out a bridge or re-setting a sound post are asked the usual response is "Take it to a luthier". By nature are we just going to be more inclined to mess with set-up and things like that. I say this because I've seen several threads on fiddlefork posted by members of the BHO asking those kinds of questions.

While we're on the subject I've got a new tailpiece I want to put on, should I do it myself?

Twelvefret - Posted - 06/22/2007:  17:47:25

While we're on the subject I've got a new tailpiece I want to put on, should I do it myself?

I have a great set up man in Johnathan Goldstein from Oak Ridge, it is a no brainer just to let him do it. Besides he needs to work just like I do.

chuck

M-D - Posted - 06/22/2007:  18:18:26

Changing out a tail-piece is easy, but bear in mind that the nylon tail-cord will stretch out, just as new strings do, and the string after-length (between the bridge and tail-piece) is an important part of set-up. 55mm is a good place to start, with perhaps 60mm being the max. length. All instruments are different, so. . . .

SlowPockets - Posted - 06/22/2007:  18:28:44

Wonder if I should measure the pre-existing length first and go from there. That's what I do when I'm changing strings out. I take one off at a time and then hold the two strings up to each other. Then I trim the new string with wire cutters to the length of the old string. I noticed the first time I tried it that the new strings were a lot longer and I was worried about having that many wraps on the peg. So far that seems to be working pretty well for me.

M-D - Posted - 06/22/2007:  18:45:28

Not necessarily. The correct place to start is one-sixth the length of your total scale length, as measured from nut to face of bridge. That's probably somewhere near 328mm, which would yield 55mm. This length has to do with producing favourable overtones. Every instrument is different, so some require a slight adjustment of that, just as does a banjo bridge whilst trying to even out the intonation. We're not concerned with intonation, however, just the tone of the after-lenths. Volume can also be increased slightly by increasing the after-length, but you dont want to get too carried away and lose the harmony of overtones.

On most fiddle set-ups, this element is not considered, especially with the use of those heavy and lengthy fine-tuners. The only tail-piece with built-in adjusters that I've found would consistently yield a good tone, and most often improve the tone, is the Tomastik. They are pricey, however.

I use string lengths just as they come from the package. Some are, however, at times a bit long, necessitating more wraps on the peg.

BanjoBrad - Posted - 06/22/2007:  23:31:18

Slowpockets-
I was warned (on another fiddle site) that clipping fiddle strings can cause all sorts of breakage problems. That is, since the cores are not wound, or the windings on 4th string will unravel.
I can't give any advise because I'm still on the set that came with the fiddle 4 years ago.

Brad

Banjo Brad
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
ezFolk Page

SlowPockets - Posted - 06/23/2007:  08:53:18

Brad, good call because I had one unravel once (not one I was changing). I only cut them off at the top where they are wound with the thread so I was hoping doing that would maintain the integrity of the wrap. So far they've been good. I should say I've only done this once and I used a real cheap brand and put them on my beater fiddle just in case something went horribly wrong.

flatfoot - Posted - 06/23/2007:  10:23:36

.

Swapping parts can be a lot more complicated on fiddle. Once you have loosened all the strings, there is a chance that the post can fall down. The bridge will certainly need resetting. Setting the bridge is more complicated than on the banjo. Setting the post requires a special tool. Both tasks require sensitivity and skill to do right. I'm sure many tinkerers will learn to do these jobs, but they are not at all simple and will take time to master.

.

Edited by - flatfoot on 06/23/2007 10:31:44

beegee - Posted - 06/24/2007:  17:49:27

Having reached the pinnacle of banjo tinkering, I find a new fascination with fiddles. They are so "moody." Only problem is that tinkering with fiddles is not as easy a tinkering with banjos. The damage done to banjos is more easily undone, early in the learning curve.

How can scratching cat-gut with horse hair possibly make a pleasing sound?

gtaunton - Posted - 06/25/2007:  12:24:29

I've already been adding fine tuners, new tailpiece, new pegs, resetting bridges, etc. to my fiddles, BUT, you need the right tools for the job! For example, you need to buy a bridge resetting tool rather trying to reset the bridge by hand. I've also ordered a some new horse hair, rehairing DVD, and a bow rehairing jig so I can try my hand at that. Before everyone goes ballistic, I used to work in a machine shop, so I'm aware of issues that can come up. Besides, I’m going to have to feel pretty good about what I’m doing before I rehair my Codabow Conservatory model bow!

The LORD will save me, and we will sing with stringed instruments all the days of our lives in the temple of the LORD (Isaiah 38:20, NIV).

duke13 - Posted - 06/25/2007:  14:00:39

Ya gotta realize that this is a fiddle not a banjo. Banjos you can fix anything with a socket wrench and screwdriver. Fiddles require precise woodworking abilities!

quote:

---

Originally posted by SlowPockets

Seeing as how most of the people on here (maybe all at this point) are from the BHO, how much of that tinkering nature do y'all think is going to carry over to this site? I know on most other sites whenever a question regarding changing out a bridge or re-setting a sound post are asked the usual response is "Take it to a luthier". By nature are we just going to be more inclined to mess with set-up and things like that. I say this because I've seen several threads on fiddlefork posted by members of the BHO asking those kinds of questions.

While we're on the subject I've got a new tailpiece I want to put on, should I do it myself?

---

Ks_5-picker - Posted - 06/25/2007:  20:15:50

Are you saying that you can work on banjos with only a 6th grade education,while you must have attended high school to tinker on a fiddle?

Rod

duke13 - Posted - 06/26/2007:  09:48:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ks_5-picker

Are you saying that you can work on banjos with only a 6th grade education,while you must have attended high school to tinker on a fiddle?

Rod

---

fiddlepogo - Posted - 06/27/2007:  05:00:34

I think you can tweak a fiddle just fine-
you just have to know your limits.

I am very picky about seating the bridge feet-
if my fiddle is sounding a bit anemic, I check to
see that the bridge feet are seated,
and that helps a lot.
Even if it looks seated, it could be a little off,
and that will affect the tone.

I have found that making sure the E and G strings
don't touch the sides of the pegbox helps the tone.

Similarly, my fiddle starts to sound muted if the metal
posts of the chinrest touch the edge of the top.

I've also found removing a couple of millimeters
of the socking material near the ball end of the string
increases volume and sustain... but I use my
clawhammer fingernail and my thumbnail to
avoid damaging the windings.

I put a Wittner Ultra tailpiece on my main
(Knilling 4KF Bucharest)
fiddle and it helped a lot...
but when I tried it on my other 4KF first, loosening
the strings took the pressure off of the bridge and
caused the soundpost to drop-
which meant a trip to the luthier!
It worked out for the good, since he suggested
a good bow, and adjusted my main fiddle's soundpost
as well.

Fiddlers can also get tweaky about rosin, string brand,
bow choice, and bow tension!
I use Kaplan Dark on my light bow, Hill Dark on
my heavy bow.
My light bow is the K. Holtz fiberglass
the luthier suggested, and the heavy bow
is the Glasser fiberglass that came with my main fiddle.
I prefer Thomastik Precisions (chromesteel on steel core)
on my main fiddle, and D'Addario Preludes on my cross-tuning
fiddle. (light alloys on steel core)

All the above tweaky things are reversible.
For non-reversible things, or things that require
great precision (setting soundposts)
I want a luthier.
The luthier was so quick at adjusting the soundpost
that he could adjust it, demo it and asked me how
I liked it, then adjust it, and demo it again-
that way I got something like an A/B comparison.
So even though he set it, it was at the position
<I> picked!

All the above gives me <plenty> of options
for improving your fiddle's tone...


Michael

http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088

"We have met the enemy, and he is us!"-
Walt Kelly's Pogo

Dick Hauser - Posted - 06/29/2007:  14:25:20

When talking about banjo repair and fiddle/violin repair, you are talking about two different types of craftman. A banjo repairperson thinks like an auto mechanic, and a fiddle/violin repairperson thinks like a maker of fine furniture.

The best banjo work I have ever had done was performed years ago by a young woman at Elderly Instruments. Everybody kept asking me where I purchased the new banjo. The tone and volume were fantastic. Haven't been able to get the quality of work done since.

gulfguy

hardykefes - Posted - 06/29/2007:  14:33:45

gtaunton:
What is a bridge-setting tool?, Never heard about it and never needed so far.

rehair: please try on a cheap bow first. The ferrule does often not come off easily, a new wedge has to be made sometimes, watch out to press it in not too tight, the tip can break away sidewise and the bow is ruined.
Every body starts somewhere, so good luck and really be careful and slow the first time. Special care to shrink the hair over the open flame!!

Violin/Fiddle Instructor and Repair Service

Jerry Byers - Posted - 06/29/2007:  14:44:02

Not sure about the bridge resetting tool, but there are some nifty bridge tools at Stew-Mac.

Violin Bridge Marker
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/S..._Marker.html

Violin Bridge Fitting Jig
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/S...ing_Jig.html

_____________________________________
Jerry

'04 Altman M-F5 #5
'05 Mid-Mo M-2
*something new is in the works*

Buckstrips™ - Strings Without the Ring