The mention of modal tunes reminds me of Tommy Jarrell's talking intro to his famous rendition of Cluck Old Hen, "in the old timey tuning of A....around where I's raised over there at the foot of Fisher's Peak [location of Round Peak] they call it the Sawmill key.....them fellers out there in Texas, they call it cross-keying."
I love his fiddle on that tune! I've got the Sail Away Ladies cd and enjoy listening to all his intro stories. He was also once quoted as saying he had heard Cluck old Hen in sawmill tuning on the banjo but " thought it was a little prettier when you run that second string down." He was such a character, somebody you would have loved to hang around. I can only imagine what an all night get together at his house must have been like. Hey Greasy Creek is a great forum name. Do you mind if I use it for the name of my old time string band someday?
Jarrell and Cockerham never played in G or C that I know of. And I wonder if that's also common or universal in Round Peak.
I wonder.... if the fact that a fretless banjo is preferred doesn't have something to do with that.... you can't just capo up from C to D or from G to A, or uncapo for going down in pitch.
I've seen people put capos on fretless banjos, and it works just fine. But more importantly, I have heard that in the old days they would just move the bridge on the banjo, sliding it towards the neck to raise the pitch in lieu of a capo (which I would assume also meant adjusting the 5th string tuning).
You could just about guess from my banjo remarks... full disclosure:
While I'm pretty experienced with clawhammer banjo, I have never actually owned a fretless banjo... because by the time the issue came up, I'd already started on fiddle, and wasn't that motivated... partly since I already had a nice sounding (throbby) fretted English open back from about 1910. I actually got to see one of the local RP formica fingerboard banjos in Mt. Airy... but I don't think I even tried to play it with Tommy and Fred there!
So I was doing some guessin' on the fretless.... and guessed wrong! And there weren't any fretless players in Los Angeles when I was learning, at least that ran in the same circles as I did.
Several Southern gentlemen have been making great contributions, and are setting the tone. And one of them is a teacher, and so is well practiced in imparting information in a matter-of-fact way that goes down EASY.
AND Lee didn't know it, but he came up with a great idea for a topic that hadn't come up lately. So it hasn't been beaten to death several times a year.
From what someone said in another thread, the "Not again!" or "Here we go again!" reaction does not tend to inspire positive contributions.
And the posting of the link to Ruchala's thesis... well, that puts me in learner mode... just reading a bit more than a chapter, I realized I've got a LOT to learn about Round Peak, even though I had a small amount of first hand experience.... just barely enough to kick off the thread, really.
Hey Greasy Creek is a great forum name. Do you mind if I use it for the name of my old time string band someday?
TBird,
knock yourself out on the band name. Unless I beat you to it. My only request is that you try to work up the tune "Greasy Creek," noted on my profile page but I'll mention it here for the laz-ee clickers like me.
Erynn Marshall wrote this in 2014, the tune reflecting the deep twisting gorge of Greasy Creek itself, a 2d order trib of the New River that's between Galax, Blacksburg and FLoyd, Va, truly in the deep rolling hills of old Virginia.
youtube.com/watch?v=QFU8MZlq65s <--great performance by Erynn and Carl from the original score the day she finished it. They haven't recorded it (yet) but say it's a much-liked tune in their current performance rotation.
Greasy Creek was named such back in the 18th century for the water quality result of the many bear carcasses thrown in the stream (actually a small river) by hunters in the area, then as now remote from main roads. It makes Toast, NC look like midtown Manhattan in comparison. The bears have survived, to the chagrin of my dogs. But I like them as long as they stay on their side of the hill. There are plenty of small caves and shelvin' rocks in the area where they hang out all winter, good thing given the 18" - 24" of snow predicted there in the next three days.
Hey Greasy Creek is a great forum name. Do you mind if I use it for the name of my old time string band someday?
TBird,
knock yourself out on the band name. Unless I beat you to it. My only request is that you try to work up the tune "Greasy Creek," noted on my profile page but I'll mention it here for the laz-ee clickers like me.
Erynn Marshall wrote this in 2014, the tune reflecting the deep twisting gorge of Greasy Creek itself, a 2d order trib of the New River that's between Galax, Blacksburg and FLoyd, Va, truly in the deep rolling hills of old Virginia.
youtube.com/watch?v=QFU8MZlq65s <--great performance by Erynn and Carl from the original score the day she finished it. They haven't recorded it (yet) but say it's a much-liked tune in their current performance rotation.
Greasy Creek was named such back in the 18th century for the water quality result of the many bear carcasses thrown in the stream (actually a small river) by hunters in the area, then as now remote from main roads. It makes Toast, NC look like midtown Manhattan in comparison. The bears have survived, to the chagrin of my dogs. But I like them as long as they stay on their side of the hill. There are plenty of small caves and shelvin' rocks in the area where they hang out all winter, good thing given the 18" - 24" of snow predicted there in the next three days.
I know what tune I'm going to learn today!!!!! One part sounds a little like Rain Against The Barn Door... Thanks for bringing the tune to our awareness..
Thanks for the offer Richard but you obviously get first dibs on it. I figure my string band won't be ready for public consumption for a few years anyway so if you haven't used the name by then I'll give you a holler. Nice historical info on the creek too. I would have never guessed it was because of dead bear carcasses. There's also a Greasy Creek in Reliance, TN but I doubt it's related. Great tune!
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I saw something earlier on about Tommy's playing that I wanted to address. If someone's already hit it, I apologize.
Tommy did in fact use Georgia Shuffles in his playing, though with a pulsed accent on the middle note of the 3-note slur Up Stroke that starts the "pattern." It adds more rhythm. That is what separates it from the more bluegrassy, modern Georgia Shuffle, in which the bow goes up smoothly through the 3 note slur with no accents, and YANKS a lightning quick Down Stroke to finish it off. It almost looks like the bowing arm is trying to pull-start a lawnmower or something. I'm probably splitting hairs, but it just rubs me the wrong way.
You can watch him do a couple Georgias in the middle of the A section in Cotton-Eye Joe. Look at his bow hand and notice how he pulses in the middle of the 3-note slur Up.
Thanks for the comment Nick. A repeating three note slur on a downbow is just not coming natural to me; I will try it this way with the pulse for a few days. I think I will have better luck.
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I saw something earlier on about Tommy's playing that I wanted to address. If someone's already hit it, I apologize.
Tommy did in fact use Georgia Shuffles in his playing, though with a pulsed accent on the middle note of the 3-note slur Up Stroke that starts the "pattern." It adds more rhythm. That is what separates it from the more bluegrassy, modern Georgia Shuffle, in which the bow goes up smoothly through the 3 note slur with no accents, and YANKS a lightning quick Down Stroke to finish it off. It almost looks like the bowing arm is trying to pull-start a lawnmower or something. I'm probably splitting hairs, but it just rubs me the wrong way.
You can watch him do a couple Georgias in the middle of the A section in Cotton-Eye Joe. Look at his bow hand and notice how he pulses in the middle of the 3-note slur Up.
This doesn't mean Tommy wasn't a Downbowing fiddler though; the Georgia Shuffle and his Song Bowing pattern are the outliers in his Downbow style.
I don't SEE it... and I can usually see Georgia Shuffles... the pulse must disguise it somehow, both visually AND sound-wise.
And not having been able to see it, I couldn't say with confidence that he used it... although I didn't rule out the possibility either.
The idea that he used it with pulses makes total sense, though.
Georgia with the upbow slur CAN fit in a downbow style if it's more of an emphasis on downbow ACCENTS than just starting on a downbow.
Oh... and just to make things perfectly clear... while I have great admiration for Tommy Jarrell's ability to groove with the bow, and know SOME THINGS about his bowing.... I'm NOT an expert on it by any means (I hope I haven't given that impression!), and I'm not surprised if there are surprises in store for me.
Funny... today, or in the middle of the night anyway, I can hear the Georgia Shuffle in Greasy String, and I THINK I'm starting to see it in Cotton Eyed Joe.
I'm up to chap. 5 in the Ruchala dissertation on Round Peak, thanks to being shut-in while still having power in this big winter storm. Ruchala has pulled together an ocean of information, some familiar to me but much of it new, and he writes well. I also took a long detour through his early reference to Steve Wishnevsky's How the Hippies Ruin't Hillbilly Music: A Historical Memoir 1960-2000,
For a fan, like me, of Hunter S. Thompson's gonzo journalism, the Wishnevsky book is fun. Probably pissed a lot of people off, but as a relative newcomer to the oldtime world, and as someone who has so far mostly focused on the tunes themselves, I get a big kick out of accounts of the early revival days and the hijinks of people who still live and play music around here. I'd always heard that Union Grove got really crazy, but Wish's accounts put some flesh on those bones with his stories. I've also much enjoyed Walt Koken's serialized stories in the Old Time Herald. If anyone knows other written sources of recent history like those, I'd much appreciate hearing about them.
GreasyCreek - I skiimmed around in Ruchala's dissertation and found some interesting parts, including the photo of "Round Peak" on pg. 133 and Ray Alden's (who apparently was the first to use the term to describe the music in 1972) thoughts on pg. 179.I think he could have used a bit more editing - he tried to get in everything under the sun, and its hard to follow the organization sometimes. I've lived long enough to have encountered several of these examples of people exploring topics I participated in, or at least observed, and using them in their academic work. Since most of these people were not there, or often not even born then, it can be hard to get the context right. On the other hand, I've known Wish since high school, and at least he was around for some of this, although I've never read his book.
I'm glad you mentioned Walt's spine tingling serial in the Old Time Herald. People who think they can only imagine what a visit to Tommy Jarrell's was like should read the chapter about his first visit with Mac and Bob in 1971. It really describes Tommy and his music very well, and even includes some technical observations about his playing. Funny too. I wasn't along on that trip, but all five of us visited him in '72 or '73 and had an equally fine time, and had some fun playing with him at Galax and other festivals. I knew him for about ten years, although I wasn't one of those pilgrims who wanted lessons or moved there to interview him. My last visit was in '80 or '81, with Beverly Cotten, when we recorded this track for her "Clog In" LP: amazon.com/dp/B004NNKY10/ref=d..._tlw_trk1
Another pertinent chapter in Walt's serial is their visit to the Marion fiddler's convention, which contains good description of the playing and bands of Ernest East and Benton Flippen, and what conventions were like in those days. Actually there's a chapter about the Union Grove convention in 1972, which was the first time we played as a five piece band. He doesn't dwell too much on the overall weirdness, but it was certainly much different than the conventions at the school that I attended in 1966 and 1968. One person Walt mentions who gets little attention from Ruchala is guitarist Paul Sutphin. Paul was a great guitar player with a big grin who was one of the people who helped me learn to play. Neither of us used a capo, and I think it was Paul who showed me how to make the big A chord, and some of the possibilities it opens up on the bass strings. Others showed me specific runs to use in certain tunes, and that helpfulness was what we generally encountered from the older generation of players, who seemed glad to find younger people who admired their music and had a serious interest in learning it. From Ruchala's work it seems attitudes may be different among some of the current generation over there today, but I don't know - I've never been too interested in that scene.
Better get moving and shovel some snow. Fiddlepogo's definition of "Round Peak" is probably close to the generally accepted one, but that's really based on the fiddle and banjo playing of Tommy and Fred Cockerham, and in particular the great duets they recorded. It doesn't say much about the great bands, and doesn't really even include Kyle Creed.
I think you might also say that "Round Peak" is an imaginary style of American string music played by a mostly imaginary group of people living in an imaginary community nestled at the foot of an imaginary "mountain." I could elaborate but I don't have time, but if you read some of this stuff critically, check out at least the Wikipedia articles about Surry county and Mt. Airy, and look at a topo map of the area and a map of Piedmont NC you might see what I mean. Or not.
That was an interesting story about the origin of the name "Greasy Creek," BTW. I was wondering about that. Plenty of bears around here too.
His book really sounds interesting. I've always enjoyed Hunter S. Thompson too along with Tom Wolfe (The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test) so I think this will be right up my alley. I'm fixing to order the kindle version for 5 bucks and get started.
DougD - thanks for the additional stories and background. I love hearing multiple perspectives about the music of that area and the revival era. Mostly I play with and try to emulate people "up the mountain" nearer my cabin. They have their own combination of admiration for the traditional players who make up what's called "Round Peak" as well as occasional irritation at the widespread, often myopic focus on that style, to the exclusion of the many many other great styles, players and local traditions within OT.
I agree there are flaws in Ruchala's piece, like it's not carefully edited, but hell, 532 pages of manuscript and most any writer is gonna have those problems. I appreciate almost any academic writing that includes a lot of interesting stories, instead of bludgeoning the reader with gobs of regurgitated theory.
Cool that you have known Wishnevsky for that long--even though he's living and working in the town I grew up in, I've never met him, but I plan to do that now to thank him for the work he did on that book. I had no idea that whole scene was going in in Piney Creek, even as I spent my youth paddling the New River very near there whenever I could.
Mike - you're right, I should, but there is so much I've wanted to dig through in that Southern Folklife Collection, I'd have to put Wishnevsky's box down the list pretty far, behind say the 13 shelf feet they have of Mike Seeger's stuff and the tapes and field notes that Tom Carter and Blanton Owen did for the Old Originals project, which is actually more representative of the players right around Greasy Creek. Or Alice Gerrard's stuff or.....or....I throw up my hands, it's overwhelming. It's one of those treasure troves that I know is there, close to me. Reality is that I hardly find the time to even get the tunes I already have organized, let alone play them like I should, so I haven't made many trips up to the reading room to get access to all that material. I will say it's a big plus to music in the CHapel HIll area to have students and researchers who come here to work with those archives and to continue the folk studies tradition.
Greasy Creek - I don't know if these would interest you, but I know of two books that discuss some of this. One is Gone to the Country, about the New Lost City Ramblers: amazon.com/Gone-Country-Ramble...252077474 and another is The Never-Ending Revival about Rounder Records: amazon.com/The-Never-Ending-Re...252079299 I haven't read either of these - just some short excerpts, but there are some interesting comments about and quotes from Tommy Jarrell in the second one. Also, Joseph DeCosimo, a musician and PhD candidate in American Studies at UNC wrote an interesting (to me at least) paper last year about a six week State Department tour of Latin America we were part of in 1974. It was just a paper for a class though,not a dissertation, so I don't know how available it might be. I think he's thinking of expanding it though.
Theoretically there's a documentary film in the works about our band too, but it seems thoroughly stalled out at the moment. There is a little trailer on YouTube though: youtube.com/watch?v=PfVC4217wu4
You're not far from Ferrum, are you? Lots of interesting stuff at the Blue Ridge Institute too!
Sorry for the thread veer, folks. I'll be quiet now.
I see people lamenting the attention that Round Peak music gets quite often, its mentioned several times in this very thread. I disagree with that.
1. In my experience here in Georgia, I'd say Round Peak playing is one of the least common styles modern players adopt. Of actual old-time music, the old Georgia bands of the 20's get the most attention. Followed by Kentucky and West Virginia flavors.
2. At most major festivals across the South, Kentucky and West Virginia seem to get the most focus when it comes to regional representation.
3. More common both at festivals and here in Georgia than any regional or traditional style is the amorphous new-time jam/festival style that draws only loosely from actual old music. Such playing may include tunes originally from Round Peak, Eastern Kentucky, Mississippi, North Georgia, or anywhere else, but the tunes are not played with much if any thought to those actual traditions. Often the players don't even know where the tune came from originally, much less any elements of the original playing style. Usually the source was Youtube. These folks (I count many friends among them) have plenty of fun, probably more than me. But why anyone wants to lament folks that learn from any actual old style is beyond me!
I'm not sure where all these supposed people concentrating on Tommy Jarrell and Fred Cockerham are hanging out, other than around Western North Carolina. Out of the many old-time musicians I am acquainted with across the South I can only think of a few who make the playing of those men their primary focus. I am one of them, though I love genuine old-time music from all over the South, even when its not a style I have become immersed in yet. Personally, I am most drawn to the styles that feature lots of cross-pollination between european descended and african descended music, styles that mostly developed in the Piedmont areas of various States. Thats just my own taste though, why would I lament that other folks focus on the weird Big Mountain styles or the eighth notey Missouri sound?
If its good music, theres sure to be people focusing on it!
I was wondering about that too... and you hear it over on the Banjo Hangout sometimes too.
Possible reasons:
1. Sour Grapes. Round Peak sets a pretty high standard for bowing and groove. A fiddler with a simpler bowing style is going to be lots easier to emulate.
2. The repertoire is Old Time, but you mostly have to buckle down and learn the Round Peak repertoire, if you want to jam with Round Peak players, and if you trot out a Round Peak tune at a local Old Time jam, it would be very likely to be a jam buster.
3. With the absence of bump-dittys, the banjo player's groove is more subtle... the accent isn't always going to show up on the back beat.
4. The tune melodies are relatively simple compared to lots of other fiddling... some people just like more complex melodies, with a straighter rhythm, that has an effect like baroque violin pieces.... hornpipey!
5. The grand old man of Round Peak is Tommy Jarrell, and even by fiddling standards, his tone isn't that good. There are lesser fiddlers in the Round Peak genre that have much better tone. That seems kind of upside down to a lot of people.
6. There is much less likely to be a local jam that is Round Peak oriented. In many places, a generic Old Time jam is already plenty hard to find.
6. Genuine local North Carolinians are still some of the more respected people in the genre. Some people have a knack for Old Time music, but to actually jam with those kinds of fiddlers, you have to be comfortable around them.... and it's a different culture... if you're not from the same or similar culture, it requires some cultural sensitivity. Not everyone is capable of that.... and maybe they know they would be in over their head. Festival style is going to seem a lot more attractive.
It's a similar skill set and attitude to what the tune collectors must have had. You look at Mike Seeger or Alan Jabbour, they are nice as pie, very courteous, and Mike didn't and Alan doesn't come across as having a trace of arrogance. And diplomatic skills must have been useful to have... and patience.
When interacting with people of a different culture, humility is DEFINITELY a BIG PLUS.
Anyway, Round Peak IS Old Time, but it is definitely an island unto itself in some ways. That makes it somewhat out of reach... and that breeds the sour grapes attitude.
GreasyCreek - I thought of a couple more contemporary narratives from that era. You may already be familiar with the Fuzzies website, featuring some writing by Bill Hicks, including a description of Union Grove, 1970: earlyblurs.com/fmsb.htm
And Annie Campbell has recently published an ebook about her life, titled The Whore Next Door. amazon.com/The-Whore-Next-Door...00Y423ZNO I haven't read it yet, but I'm sure its interesting. Annie is the wife of Harley Campbell, formerly of the Hot Mud Family and composer of the great song "Three Men on a Mountain." In those days she was with Walt Koken and was a big part of our lives. She took the photos on our first album amazon.com/Fire-Mountain-Highw...tringband (Bob did the layout) and her drawing is on the cover of the second one amazon.com/Dance-All-Night-Hig...tringband
GreasyCreek - I thought of a couple more contemporary narratives from that era. ....
Doug - thanks! I really appreciate that...the people in the OT scene and their stories have become more and more meaningful to me as I've gotten more confident in my playing.
Blockader - I'm glad to hear that Round Peak isn't getting undue emphasis where you are. My mention of the irritation (mixed with admiration) of people near my cabin is probably a very localized thing, and a lot of it has to do with banjo style. In short, Round Peak style clawhammer players have a linear style, single notes only, no brushes--Charlie Lowe brought this to that area, Kyle Creed took it to a level that many people everywhere try to emulate today. Most other players in the region around Round Peak (and on up into West Virginia) used (still use) various amounts of brushing when they aren't playing melody notes.
Ruchala nails this difference in several places....at p. 279 where he talks about banjo style being "locally chauvinistic" between these styles. At p. 282 he talks about Kevin Fore (classic Round Peak style) compared to his wife, Trish (up the mountain style), and her complaint that she's NOT "frailing" (as say Stringbean did), but people used to RP style don't hear it that way. Here's a clip of Trish playing in a jam that will show you what she does (me, too, I love her playing)--putting in brushes of various types when there's space in a melody for fills etc.
at p. 362 Ruchala quotes Chester McMillian on how Tommy Jarrell couldn't stand playing with a banjo player who didn't play Round Peak style. And therein lies the rub, today--there are still good fiddlers around, and banjoists, who have come to expect Kyle Creed-style banjo and who, like TJ, don't like anything else. And as everyone knows in this world, when you try to play with someone who doesn't like what you are doing on your instrument purely on stylistic grounds, nothing to do with bad timing or notes, that's a bitter pill to swallow.
So that's the issue I was referring to in saying there are those who feel there's undue attention to RP style--it comes out of being expected to play banjo in a certain way, even though one may have chosen to emulate some other, equally great style.
GreasyCreek - I thought of a couple more contemporary narratives from that era. ....
Doug - thanks! I really appreciate that...the people in the OT scene and their stories have become more and more meaningful to me as I've gotten more confident in my playing.
Blockader - I'm glad to hear that Round Peak isn't getting undue emphasis where you are. My mention of the irritation (mixed with admiration) of people near my cabin is probably a very localized thing, and a lot of it has to do with banjo style. In short, Round Peak style clawhammer players have a linear style, single notes only, no brushes--Charlie Lowe brought this to that area, Kyle Creed took it to a level that many people everywhere try to emulate today. Most other players in the region around Round Peak (and on up into West Virginia) used (still use) various amounts of brushing when they aren't playing melody notes.
Ruchala nails this difference in several places....at p. 279 where he talks about banjo style being "locally chauvinistic" between these styles. At p. 282 he talks about Kevin Fore (classic Round Peak style) compared to his wife, Trish (up the mountain style), and her complaint that she's NOT "frailing" (as say Stringbean did), but people used to RP style don't hear it that way. Here's a clip of Trish playing in a jam that will show you what she does (me, too, I love her playing)--putting in brushes of various types when there's space in a melody for fills etc.
at p. 362 Ruchala quotes Chester McMillian on how Tommy Jarrell couldn't stand playing with a banjo player who didn't play Round Peak style. And therein lies the rub, today--there are still good fiddlers around, and banjoists, who have come to expect Kyle Creed-style banjo and who, like TJ, don't like anything else. And as everyone knows in this world, when you try to play with someone who doesn't like what you are doing on your instrument purely on stylistic grounds, nothing to do with bad timing or notes, that's a bitter pill to swallow.
So that's the issue I was referring to in saying there are those who feel there's undue attention to RP style--it comes out of being expected to play banjo in a certain way, even though one may have chosen to emulate some other, equally great style.
Go Panthers!
Interesting that you called RP style banjo linear... I like that.
It's really an accent-neutral style. It allows the fiddler to accent whatever notes he wants, then a good RP banjo player will listen and accent those same notes, making for great groove.
Those brushes, however.... it's kind of an alpha banjo player thing, I think! They are so loud, that they force the jam to accent the tune in a certain way... which may not be the fiddlers natural way of accenting.... he or she may not have worked out a bowing that even ALLOWS them to accent the tune in that way. I remember trying to jam with a banjo picker with a loud brushy style... he played well, but his brushes forced me into constant Nashville which was out of my comfort zone, since I'd tired of the bowing and hadn't used it in years! I did not get the sense that he was listening to or trying to adjust to my groove AT ALL.
My one chance to play with an RP style banjo player allows me to totally understand what you say about Tommy Jarrell not wanting to play with any other kind of banjo player... I had total rhythmic freedom! The banjo picker wasn't fighting me!!!
I think there is a rhythmic analogy in blues vs. rock 'n' roll and rock.
Blues CAN accent the backbeat... but there's freedom to accent just about anything for more complex grooves. Round Peak is like that.
Rock is mostly stuck on a pile-driver back-beat. Brushy banjo playing is like that.
So that's the issue I was referring to in saying there are those who feel there's undue attention to RP style--it comes out of being expected to play banjo in a certain way, even though one may have chosen to emulate some other, equally great style.
I see comments lamenting the focus on Round Peak old-time in many places, articles in the OTH, comments online, album notes and reviews, and in person, so I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. Sorry if it came across like that!
As far as banjo playing goes, I don't see why learning from the RP tradition would exclude one from also learning and playing in other traditions as well. My banjo playing is rusty now that I concentrate mainly on the fiddle, but when I played a lot of banjo I played both RP and a more general style. In the same way that I switch around between different traditions and styles on the fiddle. Banjo styles aren't mutually exclusive!
GreasyCreek - I thought of a couple more contemporary narratives from that era. ....
at p. 362 Ruchala quotes Chester McMillian on how Tommy Jarrell couldn't stand playing with a banjo player who didn't play Round Peak style. And therein lies the rub, today--there are still good fiddlers around, and banjoists, who have come to expect Kyle Creed-style banjo and who, like TJ, don't like anything else. And as everyone knows in this world, when you try to play with someone who doesn't like what you are doing on your instrument purely on stylistic grounds, nothing to do with bad timing or notes, that's a bitter pill to swallow.
I can hear what the Round Peakers are hearing. It's definitely closer to Stringbean than it is to Round Peak. Lots of bump-ditties, bright tone from the middle of the head, full brushes that make it a very "in-your-face" type sound. The banjo is the loudest instrument in that jam, in danger of overwhelming the vocalist. To me, it's very akin groovewise to Bluegrass chopping.
To me, Fred Cockerham had the definitive RP banjo sound:
But here he was using in a song, Roustabout. I hear an overall evenness that sometimes flexes one way and emphasizes the downbeat, sometimes flexes the other way and emphasizes the backbeat. When he uses the backbeat, often with a little cluck, it's accompaniment for his voice, and he's careful to drop the volume so he doesn't have to strain.... he does very much the same with a fiddler.... he doesn't play louder than the fiddler he's playing with, usually Tommy Jarrell.
And, when he uses the bump-ditty, it's more bump-ditty than the bump-DIT-ty that Trish is using. In other words, he could use a bump-ditty without overemphasizing the backbeat, maintaining that underlying even quality.
Riley Baugus definitely learned Roustabout from Fred Cockerham... he even says so at the beginning. I don't think he sings it as good as Fred did (but not bad either- but Fred's version gives me chills!) but the banjo is VERY close... I'm even tempted to say he "nails" it.
It's not a full band, but as a fiddle banjo duo, it's classic RP. Kirk is not using the dramatic amount of bow travel Tommy did, but is getting very much the same groove, and is using, to my ear, many of the same bowing patterns.
Here is a recording of the Camp Creek Boys, a Round Peak band from the 60's. Even though it's a full band sound, I hear the evenness in the banjo and the tight interaction between the fiddle and the banjo that to me are characteristic of Round Peak. Fiddler is Fred Cockerham... quite different from Tommy's fiddling. Banjo player is Kyle Creed.
Groove is what allows a group of musicians to play together, and not just in the same place! It's the thing that allows musicians to "interface" with one another. You have to agree on a groove. Bluegrass makes this easy.... you have a standardized groove. Old Time doesn't have a standardized groove. Round Peak has a somewhat standardized, but rather flexible groove.
And there weren't any fretless players in Los Angeles when I was learning, at least that ran in the same circles as I did.
It almost looks like the bowing arm is trying to pull-start a lawnmower or something. I'm probably splitting hairs, but it just rubs me the wrong way. 
