Lee M - Posted - 11/06/2014:  13:34:00

I've owned that  book for 40  years and have learned a LOT of tunes from it...and a lot about music in general.. The local Irish jam people say that they don't usually play those versions of tunes...??????  What do they mean?  What other versions are there??  Also, they say that Michael Coleman's versions of tunes aren't representative of  blah, blah, blah,..... What do YOU say?

Edited by - Lee M on 11/06/2014 13:34:49

Addie - Posted - 11/06/2014:  13:44:07

Sessions are a world of their own... sort of like parallel universes, where their rules apply there and nowhere else.  

bandsmcnamar - Posted - 11/06/2014:  14:40:29

I have ONeill's as well.  I guess the tunes I've learned from there, if not exact are close enough, that they have matched well with what others around me are playing.  And I don't suppose I'm really talking about more than 5-6 tunes, so certainly not enough for any kind of real comparison.  I'm with you though, ONeill's seems like the go to source from my perspective.  

Dick Hauser - Posted - 11/06/2014:  14:42:34

A question.  Traditional Irish fiddlers pride themselves on being able to repeatedly play a tune, and never playing the tune the same way twice.  If that statement is true, how could there even be a "right" or "wrong" version ?  

I don't pay much attention to self appointed guardians of musical standards.  

chas5strings - Posted - 11/06/2014:  23:30:14

I could write a thousand words telling you how right or wrong you are in your understanding of the ethos of traditional music but that would give you only my opinion. If you didn't agree with me then my opinion would be worthless to you.

I think the way to explain versions and authentic et al is to consider the statement...."Folk music is an aural tradition"

Let that statement pop in and out of your head for a day or two together with all its implications et voila this thread becomes redundant.

Lee M - Posted - 11/07/2014:  04:28:41

I didn't mean to imply that other versions didn't exist ....my bad..... After I learn any tune from sheet music I go on and play it how I want...What I gathered from the people I was talking to was that because I had learned tunes from O'Neills, that I might not fit into the jam very well.. When I said that I learned several tunes from recordings of Michael Coleman, I  was told that he was not representative of the Irish music that was played at the jam..

I still plan on attending that session sometime but I'd better be pretty solid on what I play.  Michael Coleman rocks..!!!

carlb - Posted - 11/07/2014:  05:46:59

After I retired, I returned to playing Irish music (tin whistle). I would write the names of tunes and then look for transcriptions as they only played tunes three times and I couldn't grab them easily as those of us who play old time music where the tune is played 12-20 times. I found that "Cobb's Music of Ireland" had transcriptions that were closer to the ones played in the session than the ones in O'Neill's.

ece.wisc.edu/~cobb/irish/Tunebook.html

Now this site only has abc files. However, what I did was copy and paste each of an entire file (i.e. jigs, hornpipes, reels, etc) into the following site which converted each into nice, easily readable notation and then saved a pdf.

concertina.net/tunes_convert.html

 

Mojohand40 - Posted - 11/07/2014:  06:24:30

first: Why is everyone so angry?...lol.

It ain't rocket surgery.... You can take any tune, Old Time, Bluegrass or Irish and break it down to it's simplest form, to the bare bones of the melody and then change it from there as long as the basic melody doesn't change, it's still the tune.  When I learn a tune, (old time or Irish) I usually hunt around for a lot of different versions and LISTEN to a lot, as well as find some various  notations and peruse them.  

Many times I've learned a tune then went to an Old Time Session, only to hear that the person who kicked it off may do it slightly different here and there then what I learned OR what was even played the week before when someone else in the same group called it...I listen a bit and try to stick to the bare bones, and then I join in a bit.

If you KNOW the tune, most times you can adapt it to fit in with what a group is playing. (most times...)

Same with Irish sessions (admittedly,  haven't a lot of experience there..but I've been working on it) the First couple of Irish sessions I went to, I didn't even play...just listened, observed and tried to remember what tunes came up.

A while back I was at an Old Time Session, and afterwards, as we were packing it up, I was talking to a guy who knew a lot of Irish tunes, we both had our instruments in hand so he said lets have a few tunes, I suggested "Maid behind the Bar", as I've been playing it for a long time....He kicked it off, and ....well it was a little different then what I play, and a little different then some versions I've got recordings of...BUT...I listened and could hear the melody...I started of simply, listening while playing, then by the third time through, we were pretty much in sync with the melody....he was playing more ornaments then I was, but it still sounded like "Maid Behind the Bar".     Was either of us playing it "right"?  Yes we BOTH were even though we were playing it slightly different.

A transcribed musical notation is just one way the tune can be, is, or was played by whoever wrote it.  Adding a cut or a roll, or a slight difference in lead in notes doesn't make it right or wrong, as long as the basic melody is there. 

As for "self appointed guardians of musical standards", luckily I haven't seen such a creature in real life...I think those are just another Internet forum boogie-man.

Anyway; here's a good example:  has anyone tried playing along to these:comhaltas.ie/shop/detail/foinn...volume_1/ you can download it on Amazon....some tunes are ...eh?...okay.. my main complaint is it's a little to cluttered sounding, but it is nice practice after you learn a tune to put it on and try to play along.

Now another is: cdbaby.com/cd/hillgrove ...very different to play along with than the Comhaltas one...BUT..some tunes are on both..and if you know that tune..you can easily play along with either...even though they are both different.

Edited by - Mojohand40 on 11/07/2014 06:26:57

DougD - Posted - 11/07/2014:  10:11:33

"What other versions are there?"

O'Neill's (the basic book) is composed of tunes that were collected by Chief O'Neill from the Irish-American community in Chicago in the late 19th century, and I'm sure the notation doesn't capture the actual playing completely accurately either. And there of course were many other versions from other regions and by other players. Michael Coleman's renditions were more or less  particular to his area, and his own style. I don't play Irish music, but I think they have gone in and out of favor over the years.

Still, I think O'Neill's is probably a better guide to Irish music than Coles' or Ryan's is to American old time fiddle music. I've had a copy for many years. BTW, its available online in a handy format:  oldmusicproject.com/oneils1.html

Lee M - Posted - 11/07/2014:  10:20:29

My original comment about what other version are there could be paraphrased as "What is wrong with the versions in the O'Neill book?"   I'm going to attend the jam and see what it is all about.. Now, I'm wishing I had asked where they learn their tunes...Maybe they have heard me play my fiddle and are just trying to discourage me..from attending.

I have the Cole collection of 1000 fiddle tunes... Lots of good stuff there.

Edited by - Lee M on 11/07/2014 10:20:54

DeamhanFola - Posted - 11/07/2014:  10:31:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by leemysliwiec

 

I've owned that  book for 40  years and have learned a LOT of tunes from it...and a lot about music in general.. The local Irish jam people say that they don't usually play those versions of tunes...??????  What do they mean?  What other versions are there??  Also, they say that Michael Coleman's versions of tunes aren't representative of  blah, blah, blah,..... What do YOU say?

---

Each Irish seisiún will have its own flavour, in large part determined by those who make it up, the tone most often set by whoever's running it. You'll encounter a wide variety of personalities with a wide array of tunes and variants thereof. As you know, in the Irish tradition you will encounter multiple variants of the same tune--I know three versions of 'Toss the Feathers', for instance.

It may be that you have encountered a seisiún that values versions of tunes passed along aurally / locally / from other recordings. In some circles there remains a suspicion of players who learn completely 'from the dots', as it--rightly or wrongly--suggests newbie / non-serious status to them. It may be that they are reacting to a prejudice that 'dabblers' are the ones who turn first to O'Neill's, more than people who are more monogamous to Irish music--who more frequently get their tunes from other sources, especially other players or sources like TheSession.org, which has the benefit of transcriptions tied to particular album versions of tunes. (While the 'O'Neill's as newbie source' in many cases is true, certainly a fair few big name Irish players conversant in 'the dots' have turned to O'Neill's in the past, and highlight it in the liner notes of their CDs.)

Regarding Coleman, it's fair to say that while his playing is brilliant, his backers often left more than a little to be desired, especially in terms of imposing uncharacteristic accompaniment in terms of rhythm and note choice. (I admit to gritting my teeth at that bloody vamping piano, but I give Coleman himself full marks.)

In some respects those recordings evince as much about American musical tastes at the time as they do about Irish music. The people back in Ireland who were contemporaries of Coleman would have been able to 'listen through' that accompaniment in ways that those unfamiliar to the tradition perhaps aren't. Maybe that's what's being referenced in the seisiún.

It could also be that they're aren't necessarily fans of the Sligo style of which Coleman is the avatar, and gravitate to some other regional style--or perhaps no regional style at all, preferring  the 'modern' Celtic music monoculture.

MojoHand's approach is definitely a good one: if time permits, it's not a bad idea to do some observation of a seisiún before joining in. Some seisiúns are really closed or 'invitation-only', despite their open-jam appearance. If it truly is an open seisiún, someone will see you with your fiddle case and invite you over. Even if you're invited over, it's not a bad idea to wait to be asked for a tune. I've been at seisiúns where the likes of Liz Carroll have shown up, and they wait their turn & don't take over the show. At very least, observation will give you a notion of repertoire and style for the following outing.

While all of this might make seisiún regulars seem like pillocks, in their defense, they've probably had some nights ruined by an open-door policy. I've been at fast, Irish-only seisiúns ruined by a mandolinist who forcefully inserted himself into the circle just as a set was about to start, who then tore into 'She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain' with only 4 of the 8 strings tuned. It's enough to give one 'seisiún PTSD'. All seisiúns have their war stories along these lines, so the more you get to know the players, the more convivial the night will be for all involved.

Or maybe they just ARE pillocks who don't want new players, in which case, you need to find a new seisiún. 

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 11/07/2014:  11:47:03

I'm basically an old-time fiddler but I love my O'Neill's book. I think I've gotten about ten tunes from the thing into my head, and each tune is a gem. Since I don't go to Irish jams (maybe I should), I don't worry about how authentically I play them. I just play the tunes the way I like, and revel in their heart and beauty.

Lee M - Posted - 11/07/2014:  13:15:12

Good post, DeamhanFola..Lots of good points..Why, you could have been talking about an Old Time jam and the comments would be relative..

Lee M - Posted - 11/07/2014:  13:34:26

It wasn't intended , but the OP seems to have brought out the Irish musician's perspective ...That is a good thing.. There should be more of that.. Frankly, I get tired of OT being the focus of so many posts.. (NOT that there is anything wrong with OT, don't get me wrong!!!)

mad baloney - Posted - 11/07/2014:  14:49:32

Kind of worth noting, there are a couple of different editions of O'Neill's. The one I found to have the settings and proof-reading is the '1850' version, the 1001 and waifs and strays have egregious notation and key errors throughout. Miles Krassen's version notates every cut and roll and it taxing on the eyes, if you can get past that the settings are based on NY/Sligo settings and are fairly sound for that style.

Again what Deamon said about Coleman, some people are allergic to his hoopla, some are focusing on a different region and others have only heard Lunasa and Dervish and couldn't be bothered with anything recorded before 1995 (which I find personally repugnant but whatevs, there's no accounting for taste)

If they play music that you like and you want to be part of it, bring a recorder - it's protocol to ask them, but as long as you're just using it for your own personal learning and aren't going to post it - then I think it's fair game. Learn the ones you can, work on the ones you like. With tools like tunepal and slowdown software it's kind of a cakewalk compared to the old tape recorder days.

amwildman - Posted - 11/07/2014:  19:08:13

I'm not nearly as experienced at playing with others as mad and deamhan, but I have never seen any sort of "self appointed guardians". 

Lee, I think the problem here is that you are trying to learn an entirely new style of music by simply wetting your proverbial toe.  Reading from a book or learning tunes from Coleman isn't really getting involved.  You're speaking a whole new language with this different fiddle style.  Total immersion is the best way to learn a new language, donncha know?  If you want to truly understand, you're going to have to spend a lot of time playing and listening to the right stuff.  Reading Irish history is also extremely beneficial for understanding the musicians' viewpoint. Having your race almost wiped out from English oppression and the famine, as well as the attempted cultural exorcism is a big deal.  Those feelings are reflected in the Irish people and their music. Those of us who may not be Irish and are from a country with a history of almost unlimited freedom will take some extra time to appreciate how those things must feel, and how they must be reflected in the music scene as well. 

If you have Netflix, try watching The Wind that Shakes the Barley. I cannot vouch for accuracy, but that stuff and worse went on. Once you understand how bad it was, you'll understand a lot more about how music developed. 

I never purchased O'Neill's.  I've been tempted a few times, but there were two things that stopped me.  First, I learn tunes by ear.  A book might be a nice reference, but it really is a waste for me when it comes to learning tunes. Second, there are plenty of recorded tunes to learn before I would need to resort to a big collection.  It's still on my wishlist, but there are about 50 CD's in front of it right now.  :)

Lee M - Posted - 11/08/2014:  15:27:54

For ONE moment I was tempted to post an audio of me playing an Irish tune.. Then I came to my senses...

Addie - Posted - 11/08/2014:  15:59:58

O'Neil's in abc format

bandsmcnamar - Posted - 11/08/2014:  16:15:41

Here's a couple of more links:  

oldmusicproject.com/oneils1.html

freesheetmusic.net/dance1.html

Handy links for sure.  

Lee M - Posted - 11/10/2014:  16:14:26

Would I fit into one of your Sessions??  You may be brutally honest..

Edited by - Lee M on 11/10/2014 16:15:25

the plains of boyle

the Piper's Dispair

Mojohand40 - Posted - 11/11/2014:  06:20:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by leemysliwiec

 

Would I fit into one of your Sessions??  You may be brutally honest..

 

---

Well...I don't know those tunes...But, yeah, I'd play with you. Sounds good.  Needs work, but we all do. (especially me)..  I would say going to a session and listening and trying to play along outside the inner circle, possibly with a torte' mute if you want, would bring you along way pretty quickly at this point.  I wouldn't avoid sessions or worry much about what some folk here write. A lot that gets written here needs to be taken with a grain or two of salt. lol.

Edited by - Mojohand40 on 11/11/2014 06:22:48

amwildman - Posted - 11/11/2014:  08:03:41

I'd play with you. Your rhythm needs adjustment but that comes with time and playing with others. If you'd welcome a suggestion, I'd recommend playing the tunes straight instead of swung.

Lee M - Posted - 11/11/2014:  08:05:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by amwildman



I'd play with you. Your rhythm needs adjustment but that comes with time and playing with others. If you'd welcome a suggestion, I'd recommend playing the tunes straight instead of swung.

---

Thanks, I'll try that.

Addie - Posted - 11/11/2014:  10:20:53

Go understanding your place in the scheme of things, and go with an open mind and a generous heart, but go.

A session I used to go to (yes, Irish) usually had people dancing as well.  That gives you a good focus for playing: you need the right rhythm and pulse to make the dancers go.  Ornaments and bowing are subservient to that.

Lee M - Posted - 11/11/2014:  14:56:00

As you may know it is always difficult posting music without backup, or a metronome...  That is certainly how I sound, solo, alone, without guitar...or other fiddle.....Also... Celtic music is NOT what I normally play.. These are 'Reasons, not Excuses for how I play...  I have come to the realization that, as a fiddler, I am FUNCTIONAL (emphasis on FUN) and not amazing..  I only wish I could get in  a jam with Hangout members and play some Irish tunes... It is not likely to happen, but it is a noble goal..!!!

Edited by - Lee M on 11/11/2014 14:57:30

dogmageek - Posted - 11/11/2014:  20:00:16

Will fit. You've got it.Good job on Boyle, Lot of people wont do Boyle. Plains and all. I do. This turns off my guitar, But then so does last call.



Good fiddle. It was on my list to post music file.

mossyfiddle - Posted - 11/20/2014:  01:58:46

As others have pointed out, O'Neill's work represents the versions of tunes played by people he knew around the turn of the 20th century.  His collections were the first published by a trad musician for trad musicians and are definitely important both historically and as a reference and source for musicians today, but there are plenty of other versions out there from other streams of tradition and other musicians' personal creativity.  Don't abandon the O'Neill's versions of tunes, but do learn the versions played in your local session.  You will probably end up combining the two to a certain extent.



As far as Coleman is concerned, he had a lot more technical virtuosity than many of his contemporaries, and people are still trying to figure out exactly what he was doing on some tunes.  That said some of his versions and sets are more common than others.  For example, Tarbolton/The Longford Collector/The Sailor's Bonnet is pretty standard in my experience.

carlb - Posted - 11/20/2014:  07:08:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lee Mysliwiec

Would I fit into one of your Sessions??  You may be brutally honest..

---

I listened to the Star of Munster, which I am familiar with. Stylistically, it doesn't match well with the people I've heard at Irish sessions in the Philadelphia area. If you're really interested in playing Celtic music, then you need to attend sessions and try to play along with the more advanced players. This will allow you to lean on the playing of good players while you're learning to play that style. The only Bloomington session I could find is at the Runcible Spoon:

thesession.org/sessions/3138

&

tradconnect.com/page/north-ame...-sessions

fiddlepogo - Posted - 11/20/2014:  11:13:51

You should understand.... you play Old Time.... how many versions of Sally Ann/Sail Away Ladies are there?  Soldier's Joy?  Whaddya mean, your version isn't the same as the one in the Fiddler's Fakebook/Klassen's Appalachian Fiddle/The Milliner Koken Collection?  Learn the right version!!!

NOT!

For a living tradition, a notated version is like a snapshot of the tune in time.... it's going to change after that.

What's more, it's only a snapshot of one of the versions available at the time.

I know how you feel though..... I heard all these great Irish tunes in the 70's....and I find them in abc tune collections and ...WHAT????

They changed the tune on me!!!!

I'm sure the people I heard learned them from great recordings that were popular at the time, but hey, there are different players with different recordings that are doing the influencing now.

Just like with Old Time, if you want to play with a particular Old Time jam, learn their versions.   If you want to play with a particular Irish session, learn their versions.

There is this idea taken over from classical music that the written notation is somehow authoritative.... with traditional folk music, it's not.   In classical music, the composer is king, and their idea of the tune is (mostly) held to (exceptions tend to be made for difficult fingerings.... the composers didn't ALWAYS know the instrument they were writing for THAT well).   In a folk tradition, the writer of the tune just gets the ball rolling.... the tenth fiddler down the line could improve a good tune into a fantastic tune....  or you could end up with two great tunes.   I've known the Cole's version of Boys of Blue Hill for decades, but I also like Sally Johnson.  Same changes, but they aren't the same tune to me, even though they are clearly related.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 11/28/2014:  00:05:48

It's easy,just ask the best fiddler where they got their setting for a tune, odds are the answer would be ,a bit of this,a bit of that,and some of my own, or they'll tell you the exact version they play,.........then ask the best banjo player the same question.....then the box player,not necessarily in that order

i've only been to one session in Ireland and there is( i've been told) usually a session "leader"  well there was at this session, i sat down and tuned my fiddle as there was no one but my wife and me in the bar,then set it aside and waited for the other musicians to come in, they all came,and eventually sat round the table that was obviously "the musicians table" i not being so sure of the tunes they where about to play,tentatively sat at a different table within good hearing distance of them,with the mute on my  fiddle, then just as i thought the music was going to start ,the session leader called to me  "Hey you with all the hair " (I'm a bit lacking in that department) "come over here and give us a tune" i had to get passed the piper, which was no mean feat,as he was about 16 stone with plumbing sticking out all over, then the banjo player shuffled up a bit to make room at the centre of  "the table" and everyone else moved round a bit, i sat down and told them i didn't know if i knew their tunes, the leader then said "don't worry just play , if you're no good we'll tell you to ***** off !! " i took off the mute and struck off (best as i could)with lark in the morning then the banjo kicked in after two time's around,then the piper dropped his drones and played,and other fiddles, whistles and flutes etc joined in,one jig turned to another,drinks magically appeared on the table...and great craic  ensued 

Thank you O'Neill's and the good folk of  Vicarstown (I left my hat there,so I'll have to go back to get it some day.. or was that Ballyroan?)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarsto...eland.jpg

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 11/28/2014 00:14:46

Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 11/28/2014:  09:27:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by fiddlepogo

 

You should understand.... you play Old Time.... how many versions of Sally Ann/Sail Away Ladies are there?  Soldier's Joy?  Whaddya mean, your version isn't the same as the one in the Fiddler's Fakebook/Klassen's Appalachian Fiddle/The Milliner Koken Collection?  Learn the right version!!!

NOT!

For a living tradition, a notated version is like a snapshot of the tune in time.... it's going to change after that.

What's more, it's only a snapshot of one of the versions available at the time.

I know how you feel though..... I heard all these great Irish tunes in the 70's....and I find them in abc tune collections and ...WHAT????

They changed the tune on me!!!!

I'm sure the people I heard learned them from great recordings that were popular at the time, but hey, there are different players with different recordings that are doing the influencing now.

Just like with Old Time, if you want to play with a particular Old Time jam, learn their versions.   If you want to play with a particular Irish session, learn their versions.

There is this idea taken over from classical music that the written notation is somehow authoritative.... with traditional folk music, it's not.   In classical music, the composer is king, and their idea of the tune is (mostly) held to (exceptions tend to be made for difficult fingerings.... the composers didn't ALWAYS know the instrument they were writing for THAT well).   In a folk tradition, the writer of the tune just gets the ball rolling.... the tenth fiddler down the line could improve a good tune into a fantastic tune....  or you could end up with two great tunes.   I've known the Cole's version of Boys of Blue Hill for decades, but I also like Sally Johnson.  Same changes, but they aren't the same tune to me, even though they are clearly related.

---

Yeah.

Lee M - Posted - 11/28/2014:  13:13:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by fiddlepogo

 

You should understand.... you play Old Time.... how many versions of Sally Ann/Sail Away Ladies are there?  Soldier's Joy?  Whaddya mean, your version isn't the same as the one in the Fiddler's Fakebook/Klassen's Appalachian Fiddle/The Milliner Koken Collection?  Learn the right version!!!

NOT!

For a living tradition, a notated version is like a snapshot of the tune in time.... it's going to change after that.

What's more, it's only a snapshot of one of the versions available at the time.

I know how you feel though..... I heard all these great Irish tunes in the 70's....and I find them in abc tune collections and ...WHAT????

They changed the tune on me!!!!

I'm sure the people I heard learned them from great recordings that were popular at the time, but hey, there are different players with different recordings that are doing the influencing now.

Just like with Old Time, if you want to play with a particular Old Time jam, learn their versions.   If you want to play with a particular Irish session, learn their versions.

There is this idea taken over from classical music that the written notation is somehow authoritative.... with traditional folk music, it's not.   In classical music, the composer is king, and their idea of the tune is (mostly) held to (exceptions tend to be made for difficult fingerings.... the composers didn't ALWAYS know the instrument they were writing for THAT well).   In a folk tradition, the writer of the tune just gets the ball rolling.... the tenth fiddler down the line could improve a good tune into a fantastic tune....  or you could end up with two great tunes.   I've known the Cole's version of Boys of Blue Hill for decades, but I also like Sally Johnson.  Same changes, but they aren't the same tune to me, even though they are clearly related.

---

Yeah.

---

Hey, I know all of that stuff.. I've been playing for almost forty years an pretty much 'know it all".... (he says 'boldly' and confidently).  I'm just hoping that if I play a version that They are unfamiliar with that they will give me slack...  !!

Edited by - Lee M on 11/28/2014 13:13:41

gapbob - Posted - 02/13/2015:  04:39:02

I Came across this thread.

First, i would like to say, if you have a copy of O'Nell's by Krassen, ignore it unless you are well into the style of playing Irish music, as it is NOT a book to learn by—he notated all rolls as five note rolls! This set me back for years—I still suffer from that book!

When i was learning fiddle that book was what was available. There were few recordings available, no sessions, few books, but I did have the fabulous McGurk's to inspire me, but going there basically let me know that there was this awesome music, and i did not know how to play it.

As for sessions, they take on the personality of the dominant people there. When I go to a session, my goal is to use it as a place to have social interaction with other people, as well as to experience beauty. If the session has a different intent to the other players, it might not be the session for you.

If you play an Irish tune in an unusual way that nobody else knows, it shouldn't really matter, as long as you play it with some beauty, the other folks should be up to listening. But that isn't the case often.

I don't really go to a session to learn tunes, even though that does occur. The tunes that I learned in sessions tend to be watered down, generic versions.

A session is a place for you to share what you have, but just as in a conversation, unless you are brilliant, you cannot talk for an hour straight, because you will be considered a bore.

If you want to play in a session, take time to learn how the music sounds, it is not appropriate to be say, a klezmer, classical, or old time player and expect to be able to play the Irish tunes beautifully in that genre. At a session worth its salt, however, you will be asked to contribute, out of politeness. Do not abuse that offer!

There are many people who see the beauty, power, and grace in an Irish music session, and want to participate, sometimes these people dabble in the music and think that that is enough for them to participate. But that is not the case. In order to play Irish music well, one must understand how it should sound.

If Itzhak Perlman were to join in a session, his attempts at Irish would undoubtedly go over like a lead balloon, even though people would be very interested in meeting him, because of his fame and skill. They might ask him to play his classical music, but he would still be an outsider.

Lee M - Posted - 02/13/2015:  05:19:32

Great comments, Gapbob.. I especially like the one about having to play watered down, generic versions of tunes at some jams.    I find that at Old Time jams also.. (not that there is anything wrong with that).....As for Celtic tunes..I only know the watered down versions.

Edited by - Lee M on 02/13/2015 05:22:10

Dick Hauser - Posted - 02/13/2015:  07:54:55

The thing that helped me play Irish tunes was Mark Stone's bodhran rhythm CD that I purchased it on the CDBaby website. Peter Cooper's "The Complete Irish Fiddler" was also very helpful. Cooper explained how to bow and use ornamentation. Stone's CD helped use what I had learned. Cooper's book also had full notation. I enjoy playing along with that CD, Like most other players, I used "slow down/speed up" software a lot.