mudbug - Posted - 04/27/2009:  04:27:08

Can someone please define the difference between a reel, a jig, a hornpipe and a schottishe, and any others I might have missed, possibly with examples.

I imagine they were dance types, originally.

brya31 - Posted - 04/27/2009:  04:29:35

Hey mudbug, I posted this question a few months ago..you might want to look back thru some of the posts and pull it up

Rob

Here it is...http://www.fiddlehangout.com/forum/...OPIC_ID=5293

Edited by - brya31 on 04/27/2009 04:31:12

GeeDubya - Posted - 04/27/2009:  05:30:27

Hi Mudbug,
Wikipedia has pretty good discussions of these tune rhythms, and there are plenty of other places to Google as well for information. In short: reels are in 2/4 time (although can also be expressed in 4/4 time when written out), jigs in 6/8 time. Both have two accented beats per measure. Hornpipes & strathspeys are in same time as reels but are accented quite differently. Find a competent fiddler to show you the differences, also listen to some recordings and you'll begin to hear them as well.

Best

DougD - Posted - 04/27/2009:  05:48:16

Yes mudbug, these terms also refer to dances, which creates some confusion.

In addition to what was said in the other thread, I would add that some jigs are also in 9/8 time - usually called "slip jigs" at least over here.
Hornpipes have more "bounce" than reels, which is sometimes notated with a dotted eighth/sixteenth figure, sometimes not. Traditionally they have been associated with dancing stage sailors, and were played quite a bit slower than today. Nowadays its sometimes hard to tell the difference between hornpipes and reels. Personally I usually can feel a reel in 4/4, while a hornpipe is more in 2.
Schottische is the German word for "Scottish" which brings to mind images of Germans munching on brats, but wearing kilts, which is about right. Its a round dance, similar to a polka but slower, in 2/4.
There is also the Varsovienne which is a French dance in 3/4, derived from the word "Warsaw." I've seen it described as combining elements of the waltz and mazurka, which is another dance in 3/4, but with a different rhythmic emphasis than a waltz. "Put Your Little Foot" is a varsovienne.

Over here the terms are confused because of the use of "jig" for any music to accompany a "fancy" often solo dance (which I suppose comes from Ireland in a way). In the minstrel era these tunes were not always in 6/8 time and banjo tutors are full of "jigs" in 4/4, usually syncopated. Old timers sometimes refer to "Turkey in the Straw" and "Arkansas Traveler" as "jig tunes."
On the other hand, because of the figure in the Virginia Reel where the head couple dances down the set, showing off their steps, jigs in 6/8 time were often used for this dance, even though its a "reel."

Let's not even get started on quadrilles and galops, etc.

jehanna - Posted - 04/27/2009:  06:16:14

I have played and loved Irish Traditional Music for most of my 60 something years. I will gladly answer any specific question by PM but I believe the only way to absorb the feel of the different type of tunes is to listen to them. The written explanation can show you the mechanics and how to recognize and play them by sheet music but you need ears to really get it. You Tube is such a great resource to find music of all kinds. Another place you can read and learn about Irish music is "thesession.org". If you choose to post there do so carefully and be prepared to take some razzing as the folks there tend to be a little sarcastic and not always so kind to the newbie.
There some common tunes on the BBC site below you might want to listen to for examples also.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music...olkmenu.html

Squeak on down the road
http://www.sebabluegrass.org

OTJunky - Posted - 04/27/2009:  06:30:48

I should mention that in some Southern and Mid-Western states, the rhythmic distinction between reels and hornpipes has been pretty much lost.

In these regions a "hornpipe" is just a fiddle tune with lots of notes - like Fisher's Hornpipe - and "Hornpipe fiddlers" are fiddler that prefer to convey the rhythm by using lots of notes and phrasing the tune with bowing. Both Cyril Stinnett and Pete MacMahon from Missouri are good examples of "hornpipe" fiddlers - and they also played reels using lots of notes.

In contrast, fiddlers that prefer to play a fiddle tune using lots of drone strings, fewer notes, and very rhythmic bowing are often - but not always - referred to as "breakdown" fiddlers. Bob Holt's playing in Southern Missouri is a good example of this kind of fiddling. These fiddlers would play Fisher's Hornpipe with fewer notes and more drones - if they play it at all.

"Jig Bowing" - in the Southern and some Mid-Western regions of the U.S. is just a synonym for for "Saw Stroking" - or bowing every note - probably because that's the way a lot of U.S. OT fiddlers play Jigs in 6/8 time, though "Jig Bowing" can be - and often is - used on "reels" as well.

"Hoe Down" fiddling in the west usually just means playing a tune fast enough for dancing and it can be done both both "Breakdown Fiddlers and by "Hornpipe Fiddlers" though "Hornpipe Fiddlers" generally prefer playing for slower dances like the "Two-Step" because they have lots of notes to play and their left-hand fingers get tired. Breakdown fiddlers love to kick up the tempo and drive a set of cloggers to their limit...:D]

I think both MacMahon and Stinnett commented on how their styles changed as they moved from playing for dancers to playing in contests.

Don't know how widely accepted these terms and definitions are - all this has just been my experience from roaming around those parts - and these definitions are very specific to U.S. OT fiddling.

--OTJ
"I can barely fiddle on four strings. Why would I want five?"

Edited by - OTJunky on 04/27/2009 07:24:33

M-D - Posted - 04/27/2009:  07:20:57

'Tis true, OTJ. My friend Sam plays Fisher's Hornpipe as a breakdown, as do I. It is nearly not recognisable as such, unless one is told. Pretty much anything and everything got turned into a breakdown, if possible, for dancing purposes. Marmaduke's Hornpipe, Durang's Hornpipe, and Will Packett's Hornpipe are other examples.

Interestingly enough, a schottische stayed a schottische.

_________________________________________________________________

M-D

Old-Time, All the Time

Music is found in the space between the notes -- in the silence between the chords. Get your spaces right, and you''ve got it. ~ Albert Greenfield

mudbug - Posted - 04/27/2009:  09:07:27

Thankyou all for your explanations.

Thankyou Jehanna for that feed. That is a wonderful learning site. My wife might even use that as a beginning ukulele player ( ukulelist ?).

Dick Hauser - Posted - 04/27/2009:  12:45:12

I think that the best source of information is Peter Cooper's book and CDs "The Complete Irish Fiddler". There are 3 or 4 chapters on each type of tune. In addition, the book has lots of entertaining historical information on Irish fiddling. Check the amazon.com website.

The notation is excellent and the book contains tunes that are commonly played. You can't say this about every book on Irish fiddling. The author clearly describes each type of tune and provides techniques which can be used to play that type of tune. The book also educates the reader on polkas, mazurkas, and airs.

The tunes and notation represent the music the way it is played in Ireland. In North America, many fiddlers do not distinguish between hornpipes and reels. Both hornpipes and reels are played in 2/4 time, but hornpipes are played at a slower tempo. In addition in a hornpipe pairs of notes are written as eighth notes, but are played as though the first note was a "dotted" eighth note, and the second note as though it was a 16th note. I would not want to dance to some fiddlers versions of these tunes.

Scottisches have a sound similiar to the original hornpipes.

Except for airs, all Irish music was created for danceing. And, the fiddle tried to duplicate the sound of the Irish bagpipe.



gulfguy

Edited by - Dick Hauser on 04/28/2009 19:39:24

davidblair - Posted - 06/11/2009:  03:46:46

Reel 4/4, Slurs played fast, slide, a drone, triplet, B section- bows across two strings, lower note constant, the higher moving, resolving then with a drone.
Hornpipe 4/4- Medium fast, bouncy, no slur. Octaves, HIGH G, low g.
Jig-or double jig- 6/8, fast, long down bow on the one. Often in a minor key.
Slip jig-9/8, slower, slides, bows long, short, longer.
Air-4/4 slow, ethereal, melodic.
Strathspey- 4/4, dotted notes, a stutter and a snap, triplets in a row.
Schottische- 4/4, Step dance, back and forth, double stops slide then trill.
Breakdown-4/4 American, fast, pull offs, slurs, drones, 1-5 resolve.
Rag-4/4, repeating licks, answered with similar licks, uses a sharped note before resolving to a double stop chord. Changes key.
There must be more?