Brian Wood - Posted - 05/02/2025:  09:09:34

Where on the hair does most of your fiddling happen?

Excepting times I need to use lots of bow for a reason, all my playing seems to be in about the middle 3rd. I think I can get more power if I bow nearer the frog but I have to concentrate to stay there because of balance. Probably that's why some players choke hold, but I don't want to do that.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 05/02/2025:  13:50:09

I do most of my fiddling in the middle of the bow because that's where I find the tone I like the best. It also gives me the most flexibility when I decide to do a long note...as I have the opportunity to go either way.

NCnotes - Posted - 05/02/2025:  15:35:57

Me too…



I only wind up at frog/bow (using full

bows) for slow stuff.



In the workshop I took with an Irish fiddler, a lot was said about “balanced bowing” and arranging your slurring so you stay in the middle. I don’t know what the “physics” is, but it feels easier for string crossings … and playing just takes less effort in general?

When you don't "balance the bowing" you can get that feeling of "ran out of bow"...like, sometimes I find myself playing uncomfortably away at the tippy top because I did too many big downbows. It seems to happen less these days as I am slowly getting common slurring patterns into my arm...

Edited by - NCnotes on 05/02/2025 15:40:32

wrench13 - Posted - 05/02/2025:  15:58:19

Brian, depends what I'm playing. Fiddle tunes more in the middle. Swing stuff I use more of the whole bow length, slow waltzs and airy stuff I use more. I choke up my hold for old time but go back to the frog for bluegrass type playing. I do my 'chopping' more in the middle too, unlike most fiddlers, cuz I'll a tiny second note to 2/4 and 4/4 chopping that I find easier there.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 05/03/2025:  06:17:28

Hmmm ... I use probably too much of the length of my bow to play short tones. Think OT tunes. I chop at the frog and long bow behind vocals which I am thinking is usual. I continually have to remind myself to loosen my wrist and "shoot" for the middle third of the bow. I think sometimes spending my formative musical years with a pick in hand has impacted my use of a bow. C'est la Vie. R/

Strabo - Posted - 05/03/2025:  12:39:30

quote:

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Originally posted by wrench13

 I choke up my hold for old time but go back to the frog for bluegrass type playing. 

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I'm curious -- what's so different between OT and BG that it requires a different grip on the bow?

Brian Wood - Posted - 05/03/2025:  12:57:46

quote:

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Originally posted by Strabo

quote:

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Originally posted by wrench13

 I choke up my hold for old time but go back to the frog for bluegrass type playing. 

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I'm curious -- what's so different between OT and BG that it requires a different grip on the bow?

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I'm curious about that too. I am conservative in my playing in that I want my technique consistent. So my bow grip is essentially one thing no matter what.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 05/03/2025:  13:33:15

if you shift a little, you can keep things on adjacent strings, then you can slur, or use rhythmic bowing patterns etc, at will. So you could slur a whole phrase or break it up as you want. And use as much or as little bow as you want to. At what ever point on the bow that suits your intensions best.

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 05/03/2025 13:33:53

wrench13 - Posted - 05/03/2025:  14:52:58

quote:

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Originally posted by Strabo

quote:

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Originally posted by wrench13

 I choke up my hold for old time but go back to the frog for bluegrass type playing. 

---

I'm curious -- what's so different between OT and BG that it requires a different grip on the bow?

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For me, OT fiddle tunes are more rthymic and the choke hold is a bit handier for me to do that.  BG,  I incorporate longer passages, more slurred lines, some swing riffs, all again easier with the hold closer to the frog.  Hey I dont recommend it, its just what I have found after playing for 50 or so years. 

Strabo - Posted - 05/04/2025:  05:05:35

I guess 50 years is long enough to figure out more than one successful way to hold the bow. Me, I got my hands full just trying to hold onto the dern thing somewhat consistently.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 05/04/2025:  05:19:09

This is a topic that’s interested me for a while. While I’d say that it’s fairly common for a fiddler in any style to use a short amount of bow, where that portion is located can vary, especially with regional style.

A lot of Old Time players play in the middle, but it’s not completely universal. Bluegrass players often do use the frog more for chopping and might use longer bows for longer passages if they’re slurred. Celtic fiddlers seem to be more divided by region. I hear that in some counties the fiddlers play at the tip and in others it’s more are the middle or the frog.

In Jazz you find a wider variety, as jazz itself has spread out in several different directions over time. Joe Venuti was known for his fearless and powerful sound that came from his use of the whole bow, but Stephane Grappelli was the polar opposite, with his very delicate approach that came exclusively from playing at the tip. The more chopping you do, the more the bow is closer to the frog to allow for quick transitions from legato to chop. I’ve seen the same in Hip Hop playing.

Classical violinists are taught to make use of the whole bow. Playing in one section of the bow is used for shifts in tone color or mood. Using the whole bow is a key factor in drawing the kind of sound that can fill a concert hall.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 05/04/2025:  11:12:30

Bowing, fingering, and shifting strategies for a fiddle tune, are a personal preference, imo. And relate to your personal interpretation of the tune, and how it is phrased.



Unless you prefer to follow someone else's, (Usually a Composer, Arranger, or a Maestro's) instructions on how to do the same. Which will be notated in the score.



Or you would have to work them out for your self by transcribing the tune. The points on the bow where you play them, fingering, bowing and shifts would then become self evident.

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 05/04/2025 11:18:52

RinconMtnErnie - Posted - 05/04/2025:  13:57:11

I mostly play near the middle. I try to cheat a little towards the tip for two reasons. First, my forearm is perpendicular to my upper arm, which minimizes upper arm motion. Second, sometimes I get too much bounce in the middle.

Like others, for slower stuff I use more bow.

farmerjones - Posted - 05/04/2025:  14:50:10

I had to look at a video of m'self. A lot of camber in that bow. Typically, the closer to the tip, but passed the belly of the camber. If I reach for a G string note, like at the start of a phrase, it's more like halfway, or the least bow arm movement.
Cyril Stinnett had an iconic stance. He moved very little. It seemed like magic when all those notes came flowing out of seemingly nowhere.

buckhenry - Posted - 05/05/2025:  22:05:33

forearm is perpendicular to my upper arm

I concur with the above statement, and due to my quit long arms most of my bowing happens from about the centre of the bow to the middle of the upper third of bow. The lower third of bow is reserved for long bows and chopping at the frog.  

I think that it would be very fatiguing  to constantly play at the lower third where much of the arm weight needs to be delicately balanced to prevent excessive weight on the string. Similarly at the upper third of bow where more pronation is required to maintain arm weight on the string.

I think the middle 'part' ( the part which I favour ) of the bow also facilitates a natural transition from a full tone to almost a ghostly tone.