Bradford - Posted - 01/31/2014:  23:29:34

I have a 5 string, but it doesn't have any strings on it right now (got stored in a case that was a little too small for years and broke all the strings at the bridge)

I was looking at stringing it up again - I've bought helicore 5 string sets in the past but my 5er is a beater and I don't really want to spend $60 for strings on it. Back in the day when pickings were slimmer (before online stores etc) I would buy a set of violin strings and then buy a viola C - the C would far outlast the other strings.

From the looks of it, my 5er started out life as a small viola and someone converted it to a 5 string violin. Maybe I'd be happier with a set of viola strings and a violin e?

From what I remember the fiddle is on the quiet side and kind of 'dead' tonewise. Lacking in overtones, but not overly trebly. I'm not really expecting string to 'fix' all of this, but maybe a cheaper set of strings (under $35-ish) that might compensate for it's tone. Given the two, I'd rather have richer tone than more volume though.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 02/01/2014:  03:59:06

Looks like Supersentative Red Label Viola Medium with a Prim E will be about as in inexpensively as you will "get out " ........ Check out Concord Musical Supplies @ 23.99$ and 1.95$ they come in as least expensive. With standard shipping in the U.S. at 1.50$ you can get strung for just under 30.00$........ R/

Bradford - Posted - 02/01/2014:  08:29:37

Thanks, that's the lowest price I saw too. I don't think they would do the fiddle much justice though, although it's not trebly it's not bassy either, just lacking in overtones and volume. 

After some thought I was thinking of either helicores or jargars

DeamhanFola - Posted - 02/01/2014:  09:38:11

On my Kogut 5 (which is a dark sounding fiddle & with a body slightly larger than the standard fiddle) I use Prims for G, D & A, a wound Tonica E, and (currently) a Spirocore viola C. After much experimentation, I don't imagine I will depart from the G-E combinations. 

The C is a different matter. While I basically liked the sound, I found the Helicore 5-string C to be a bit floppy. The Spirocore is better in terms of tension, and I initially liked the tone, but the power is definitely not there compared to the other strings-- noticeable difference in volume and response (quieter & more sluggish). Next string change, I'm going to a Prim viola C to see if this can be alleviated.

I know many of the big 5-string users out there have been lobbying sting companies to work on the C-string issue. If memory serves, Darol Anger and Casey Driessen were lobbying D'Addario & others for improvements.

FWIW, I've tried Jargars on my 4 string, but found them really dead/dull sounding--almost muffled. They are the only string I've ever taken off after only 2 days.

If you're not wedded to all-metal strings, you might give Tonicas a go. They're in the price range you mentioned and sound way better to my ear than Jargars--more responsive, too.

As always, YMMV--some fiddles like some strings better than others.

In addition, I find that my C string really requires a heavier bow/bow hand. On my 4 string I use my 59.5 gram Hill, but if I'm going to be doing a lot of work on the C string I tend to switch to my 63 gram old German bow. I reckon this might be even more the case if you end up going with viola strings C-A.

Edited by - DeamhanFola on 02/01/2014 09:41:50

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 02/01/2014:  09:56:48

Think about Prim Viola strings and a Prim E while you are pondering . I used Helicore strings for awhile then about two years ago I switched to Prim......... I like their bright singing tone .... the Helicore strings were somewhat darker ...... enjoy the search ... R/

DougD - Posted - 02/01/2014:  09:59:41

Yes, I've had the same experience with Jargar strings (on a regular fiddle). It always surprises me when people recommend them here. Do you like them, Brad? I've also found them to be dull and muffled sounding.

I have no experience with 5 strings, but Prim was what came to my mind too. Looks like they'd be in the $45 range, but probably worth it compared to Super Sensitives. I like Tonicas too, if you want synthetics.

Bradford - Posted - 02/01/2014:  10:16:59

No I've never tried Jargar's just going off of what I've read... thanks for the warning.

I guess it's worth noting that I really don't like the sound of solid steel strings, they make my skin crawl, what you gain in volume you pay for in spades with a tone that sounds like a dehydrated cat's last yowl for water. Although I've only tried red labels, black diamond violin, maybe jargar or prim would offer more overtones and a darker edge. 

I like hybrids and braided cores though - I have settled on superflexibles on my main fiddle which are braided steel core and I like helicores, both of which are kind of a bridge between synthetics and steel. FWIW my fiddle also sounds pretty decent with synthetics like dominants, vision and eva's, but they don't last as long and don't stay in tune as well for me.

I don't know why, but I seem to always be happier with thomastik products over d'addario - maybe it's just something I've built up in my head, but they just seem to sing a bit better.

Blue - Posted - 02/01/2014:  10:28:13

I like Zyex strings on my 5 string; I tried Helicores but I missed the overtones I get with synthetics. But what do I know, I'm still a novice fiddler who still sometimes sounds like a yowling thirsty cat. :-)

Bradford - Posted - 02/01/2014:  11:00:53

I tried zyex's once about 5 years ago, all I can recall is that they sounded kind of like loud helicores to me. I've heard people really dismiss them out of hand, but I didn't think they were all that bad, they lasted a dog's age too if I remember correctly

DougD - Posted - 02/01/2014:  12:03:21

Why not try Superflexible then? They are getting up there in price compared to Helicore or Prim though. I tried them on a regular fiddle and thought they were pretty good, but I got tired of fooling with that instrument and sold it shortly after, so I didn't really play them enough to know.

Edited by - DougD on 02/01/2014 12:05:42

SamY - Posted - 02/01/2014:  20:10:30

If I wanted economical as possible but still have decent strings, I would get Prelude violin set ($14.85 at johnsonstring) and a Prelude viola C ($6.75).  Going up in price, I would recommend Prim, especially since it sounds as though you have never tried them.  Sometime ago I too thought I had settled on Superflexibles.....until I tried Prim.

I tried Jargar.  I wouldn't describe them as dull or muffled as others have, but seemed to me to just be lower on volume.  Might be good on a very responsive instrument.  Randy Howard played them on his Jonathan Cooper violin.

Reilly-Byrne - Posted - 02/02/2014:  06:49:09

From the way you describe the tone of the 5-string, I would try some Prims to liven it up. Viola strings also seems to be something to consider.

DeamhanFola - Posted - 02/02/2014:  08:27:22

quote:

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Originally posted by mad baloney

 

I guess it's worth noting that I really don't like the sound of solid steel strings, they make my skin crawl, what you gain in volume you pay for in spades with a tone that sounds like a dehydrated cat's last yowl for water. Although I've only tried red labels, black diamond violin, maybe jargar or prim would offer more overtones and a darker edge. 

 

---

I long was of this opinion too (and often, not without reason)! I also had an irrational--and untested--prejudice specifically against Prims because 'they' said that Prims could be edgy and metallic. I likely never would have tried them, but they were what Bob put on my 5 when he completed the instrument (and are the default on all of his 5s, if memory serves). I fell in love with the sound: very responsive, relatively cheap, and they last forever. Prims may well be edgy on some instruments or to some ears, but on my 5 they aren't at all. However, this 5 does have a dark, deep chocolate sound to start with--I wouldn't put Prims on my 4 string, which has more of an edge under the ear.

FWIW, I'm not really an all-metal guy either. These days I string my 4 with Violino G-A, with a Tonica wound E. Next string change I'm going to give Obligatos a go, but I'm basically satisfied with the Violinos. My 4 is super-loud, and I was looking to tame a bit of the under-ear edge--the Violinos are definitely a bit sweeter and a tiny bit quieter. Violinos are slightly more expensive than the Tonicas (and so maybe out of the range you want to spend on your 5), but thus far have lasted well.

It sounds like if Prims don't work, Tonicas may well be an option for you, especially if you want some more volume--I've also found that they last a pretty long while, especially for synthetics.