mumken - Posted - 05/15/2013:  11:56:55

Hey everyone--

I just signed up to share this (hi!). I requested a copy of the Hamblen collection from the Library of Congress, and I just received it. It cost me $38 and took a few days-- not really a huge deal, but I figured I'd share the love and save you guys from having to do the same.

Before anyone complains-- I DID look up the copyright info and as far as I can tell, it's not copyrighted (it wasn't in the US copyright database). Not surprising since it was published in the mid 19th century. I didn't have to pay anyone any royalties to get a copy, which generally means that nobody owns the rights. If anyone happens to know that it IS copyrighted, please let me know and I will take it down. I'm not trying to get anyone in trouble!

Enjoy!

https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJnZUNvQTY1UjVYd3NUQw

carlb - Posted - 05/16/2013:  05:47:37

Was there any wording in your agreement from the Library of Congress, when you paid your money, to the effect that you may not make copies?

mumken - Posted - 05/16/2013:  10:11:11

Nope. It just said that I have to abide by copyright law if the material is copyrighted, and that they would appreciate a "courtesy of the Library of Congress" if I publish the material.

mumken - Posted - 05/16/2013:  10:18:26

The way I look at it-- a. I can only imagine how delighted Hamblen would have been to know that his work is being shared and appreciated among fiddle enthusiasts all over the world hundreds of years later; I think that was what he hoped when he wrote down his family's music, and b. I don't imagine that the librarians at the LOC love having to copy the same fragile manuscript 100 times.

rastewart - Posted - 05/16/2013:  11:22:08

If it was published in the mid-19th century it should be in the public domain.  The Library of Congress may have copied it once and stored a PDF or similar file for reprints--that's what I would do anyway, I think, if I were in charge of that process.  Thanks for posting this!

~Rich

Edited by - rastewart on 05/16/2013 11:22:44

DougD - Posted - 05/16/2013:  14:37:34

Thanks for posting that.

devilsbox - Posted - 05/17/2013:  07:22:28

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

 

Thanks for posting that.

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Ditto!

Diane in Chicago - Posted - 05/17/2013:  17:14:35

That is really great!  Thanks for all that effort and cash expended for us all!

musekatcher - Posted - 05/18/2013:  05:01:00

Thanks. Yes, its almost certainly public domain. The LOC's mission is to preserve material for all of us to use. They are funded for this purpose already with tax dollars. They do need to charge for some services. I once had them send me copies of some material donated on reel-to-reel tapes. I had to pay handsomely to have them transferred to cassette tape, because I was the first person to request copies. I assume subsequent copies were sold at nominal prices to the next folks.

Dave S - Posted - 05/18/2013:  07:36:06

Thanks!

#30 is "Forked Ear"

Is this humor? It looks like a different D tune than the one we know and love, although the B part is reminiscent of the A part of FD.

carlb - Posted - 05/19/2013:  05:15:29

For those of us who've heard John Summers play "Jay Bird" (#34), it seems he must have learned it from this collection or from Hamblen's son after the family moved to Indiana.

Edited by - carlb on 05/19/2013 05:18:40

mumken - Posted - 05/19/2013:  14:05:11

"Thanks!

#30 is "Forked Ear"

Is this humor? It looks like a different D tune than the one we know and love, although the B part is reminiscent of the A part of FD."

Funny you ask! I've put a lot of thought into that song, actually, and it's what got me interested in the Hamblen collection to begin with.

I will admit that I am pretty new to this whole fiddle thing. I am a classically trained violinist, but I always thought 19th century Appalachian style fiddle music was really cool. So I did some internet research one day and started looking up the most famous tunes from that era/ region that I could learn and heard about "Forked Deer." So, I looked up "Forked Deer" on Youtube and came across this video:

youtube.com/watch?v=DpnMiNPYN8Q

...and that's when I saw the reference to the Hamblen collection in the description.

So, obviously it seems like someone just made a mistake and misheard the name, but you see in the actual sheet music it IS titled "Forked Ear." And there are certain little similarities here and there but they are not the same song at all. Both start out in D but Forked Deer has a key change to A in the middle, etc.

Coming from someone who is completely new to this whole world of music-- so I admit I'm nowhere near an authority on the subject-- my theory (which I also posted in the video) is as follows-- so, many of the musicians from this region did not have the opportunity or ability to write out their music, this collection being an exception. It's likely that many of the songs that we think of as traditional and originating from that era actually sounded quite different back then, just, you know, minus a couple hundred years of evolution from countless fiddle players adding in their variations and improvisations. So perhaps Forked Deer did not have that key change back then and sounded closer to what Hamblen wrote down. Or maybe that family just had a particularly unusual version. One of them, either A. Porter Hamblen or his family member, misheard the name and called it "Forked Ear."

BanjoBrad - Posted - 05/19/2013:  14:34:38

"Forky Deer" has a key change? I've never played it in anything but D all the way through. And, every copy (dots and tab) I've seen is D with no transposition. I'd be interested in hearing one of the versions in D/A - can you put up a link to one?

mumken - Posted - 05/19/2013:  14:44:37

Well, by my own admission, as a classical violinist I have never put much thought into what key something is in and I'm only now trying to train myself to think that way. But my understanding is that it changes key, and I've read/ seen some other fiddlers say the same:

youtube.com/watch?v=A5wehiormMg

Pretty much every version I've ever heard sounds almost exactly like that, with the change in the middle. Maybe it's not formally a key change but it sounds like one to me? Either way, Forked Ear doesn't have anything that sounds at all that... change-y...

BanjoBrad - Posted - 05/19/2013:  19:24:37

All of my (admittedly banjo tab) books indicate "Forky Deer" is in D. It's possible it changes keys, but all the chord charts I've ever run across also never change to an E chord (D = D G A; A = A D E) I've never considered it to change keys.

Without sounding like I'm trolling, I'd just like to ask how you could never consider keys if you play classical music and read music. I've read music since 3rd grade piano lessons over 60 years ago and one of the first concepts I learned was the key of the score. I've played classical and folk guitar for over 50 years, and OT music (guitar, clawhammer banjo and fiddle) for more than 10 years. Maybe because of my background, I've always been conscious of the key, although I've really never been able to easily tell the key from listening without a guitar to try chords on.

I just double-checked the notation in the Hamblen collection you posted, and "Forked Ear" is in the key of D all the way through. I'll have to play around with that tune and see what it sounds like.

MikeyBoy - Posted - 05/19/2013:  19:48:24

I've always thought of it changing keys.  Even though there isn't an E chord, the B part centers around the A (A Dorian?, my theory is rusty), and it feels like a key change, and it feels like it has to modulate back to the D. 

mumken - Posted - 05/19/2013:  21:29:55

"Without sounding like I'm trolling, I'd just like to ask how you could never consider keys if you play classical music and read music. "

Not offended at all. I've read about other classical violinists having the same problem transitioning to styles that require improvisation and such. I suppose it was just the way my teacher taught me to play. There wasn't really any reason for her to quiz me on what key something was in when there was sheet music right in front of me. I would see one flat and I would think "all of the B's are flat." -- not "this is in D minor." It doesn't really provide any new useful information if you're just playing sheet music verbatim...

And yeah-- that's what I was saying. Forked Deer-- key change, Forked Ear-- no key change.

Edited by - mumken on 05/19/2013 21:31:36

DougD - Posted - 05/20/2013:  04:15:18

"Forky Deer" doesn't change keys. Its all in D, but the B part begins with a V chord (A) which it holds for quite awhile, but then resolves to D in the normal way. The key signature doesn't change, nor does the chord structure. D is still the tonic (root) chord, A is still V, not I, and there's no E chord, as there probably would be if it actually changed key.

The tune labeled "Forked Ear" in the Hamblen collection only hints at this chord structure, and the parts are reversed, so its the beginning of the tune. You could play that over an A chord, like the modern versions. Another early version of "Forky Deer," published in Knauff's Virginia Reels in 1839, also reverses the parts like this, but the melody is kind of midway between "Forked Ear" and the more familiar ones of today. You might be interested in this collection, mumken, and you can find all four volumes at the University of North Carolina:  lib.unc.edu/dc/sheetmusic/  This tune is in Volume 1.

Sounds like ear training and music theory were somewhat neglected in your classical studies, mumken, and you'll want to work on ear training at least if you want to play the fiddle.

MikeyBoy - When you say "I feels like it has to modulate back to the D"- that's what it does, except it doesn't modulate. It just resolves - the last chord of that part is still D, which is a classic way to determine what key a piece is in. If you want to think of it as going to another key, it would be A mixolydian I guess, not Dorian, but since it resolves to D I don't think that's a good way to think of it. Its just a long use of the dominant chord. It builds tension, which is released when it resolves. If it actually changed key the tension to resolve wouldn't be there - it would just feel contented in the new key, like a tune like "Flying Cloud," which does really change keys.

Edited by - DougD on 05/20/2013 04:29:12

BanjoBrad - Posted - 05/20/2013:  13:10:44

Ok, I can see your point. I guess because I learned to play the piano first, the theory part had to include keys to help explain the left hand chords.

Thanks, Doug, you explained the tune well - I do need to work on my ear, but it is coming as I play the fiddle more. In fact, I've found that I can more easily pick up tunes by ear if I use the fiddle.

uncledelphi - Posted - 05/22/2013:  05:55:18

Would there be any interest in me converting these to more legible, machine-generated PDFs, such as the transcriptions I post to my site?  It would be fairly easy for me to do that.

ajisai - Posted - 05/22/2013:  07:34:31

quote:

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Originally posted by uncledelphi

Would there be any interest in me converting these to more legible, machine-generated PDFs, such as the transcriptions I post to my site?  It would be fairly easy for me to do that.

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For me, it's a delight to read from pages that someone very carefully wrote out many years ago. It's hard to describe, but sometimes when I play through a tune like that, it feels like time expands so that the moment includes the history of the tune right there in the room with me. I think I'd have less of a chance to experience that reading from a modern transcription.

DougD - Posted - 05/22/2013:  07:54:51

The transcriptions in this collection are quite neatly done, and fairly easy to read. I think there's an error in #9, "The White Cockade," though. Its written in the key of E (four sharps) and although the melody can be played that way, if you play the same notes in the key of G (one sharp) it makes more sense as the melody of that tune that I know (which is usually in G).

patrickdirickx - Posted - 05/23/2013:  23:39:51

hi there, any chance of a repost ? Thanks in advance ...

hova1 - Posted - 05/24/2013:  09:22:02

The download has expired. I'd love to get a copy of this if possible.

carlb - Posted - 05/25/2013:  06:32:59

For those who didn't get a copy: A number of years ago, a friend sent me a pdf copy of the Hamblen Collection. Send me a "private message," from my FHO homepage (so I have your email address), if you'd like me to send you a copy.

mumken - Posted - 06/06/2013:  13:40:57

I've been getting some messages from people asking for another link, so here you go:

yousendit.com/download/WFJXWmd...2RqQTlVag

(If a moderator could please update the original post to include this link instead, that would be great. Thanks!)

carlb - Posted - 06/07/2013:  05:54:27

quote:

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Originally posted by mumken

 (If a moderator could please update the original post to include this link instead, that would be great. Thanks!)

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If you go up to your original post, you'll see that, as the person who started this topic, you can still edit the original post yourself.