Andah1andah2 - Posted - 09/22/2012:  06:47:25

So, I have started working on Brad Leftwich's second video from the series "Learn to Play Old Time Fiddle".  I had a question for any folks that have worked thru this video themselves.  I have been working on the first tune, Citico, and getting the notes and the bowing pattern down that he shows pretty well.  I have been practicing it as he demo's it at slow speed.  However, when he first plays it up to speed, it sound pretty different.  My question, Is he playing different notes at the faster pace to "fancy" it up or is it the same notes and pattern with the speed picked up and possibly changing the rhythm?  I can't see how speeding up the slow version will bring me to the fast version.  If the fast version is different then I wish there was some instruction to teach how to get from the slow to the fast version.

I hope this question makes sense.  I think it is important for me to start learning these bowing patterns to start moving me forward in old time fiddling.  I am feeling a bit stagnated.

Thanks

RobBob - Posted - 09/22/2012:  07:03:21

There is kind of a doppler affect when you speed up your bowing and noting.  It runs together when it is just right and makes for a different sound.  Having said that, he may also be slipping in some of those little tricks that become part of an accomplished fiddlers arsenal.  But Brad is darn good at the analytical I doubt there is very little if any of that going on.  Keep playing the tune until you don't have to think about it.  Play along until you can morph your playing to his.  That's what we did back in the day before all of this technology.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 09/22/2012:  09:50:27

I agree it sounded different, but I couldn't tell if he'd done different bwing r just fit the bowing he showed in better with the tune at regular speed. I liked seeing hw he was showing to apply Tommy's lck, etc. to the tune, but all the ups and dwns to play along drive me crazy. I'm hoping the final take away of these demonstrations is intended to be to just get how these licks can be thrown into tunes at will... If I can grasp that much I'll be happy. But I agree wen he played Citico it sounded all different, did you get to Boll Weevil?? It sounded the same to me...lol...I think Chicken Reel mostly did too, except he threw in chicken sounds in different spots on the fast one, just from what I gather so far...I plan to watch it more later. Can you get through Citico with the bowing he showed on the slw version? If so, I think speeding it up, I'd try just speeding it up phrase by phrase...so that the bowing gets firmly in your muscle memory and then maybe it comes mre relaxed and would take on a different sound....maybe?

SamY - Posted - 09/22/2012:  10:10:30

I'm betting that if and when you get up to speed and with accurate technique, it will sound as on the video.  Speed and good technique, not fast and sloppy, makes all the difference.

As on this OBS video, listening to the slow learning speed sounds very boring.  Just listening to it, I would never dream how it sounds when played fast.

youtube.com/watch?v=lygc31AHHiY

P.S.  I haven't seen the video of the original post, just guessing the effect might be similar.

Edited by - SamY on 09/22/2012 10:17:42

Sue B. - Posted - 09/22/2012:  10:34:40

I've had classes with Brad, and my experience is that his slowed-down bowings are the same as his fast ones in that context. I haven't used his video, but it would surprise me if he changed or added things in that context. The weight of the bow and actual applied accents feel different with fast bowing than when playing slowed down.

Mike_Fontenot - Posted - 09/22/2012:  12:03:35

The syncoshuffle (Tommy's lick) is | 1-2-1  2-1-1 |, and it automatically accents one or more of the three down-bowed notes (the first three 1's above).  Although the AVERAGE loudness of the downbowed notes is greater than the average loudness of the up-bowed notes (because of the imbalance in that pattern), the fiddler has the freedom to choose WHICH of the three down-bowed notes to accent.  It's probably somewhat uncommon to accent that second 1, because it's neither a beat note nor an off-beat note (I call it a "pre-beat" note, because it occurs right before a beat note).  There MAY be some cases where a pre-beat or a post-beat note gets accented to very good effect (interesting question), but I doubt that it's very common.  So it's probably more likely that Brad is accenting either the first 1 or the third 1, or maybe both of them to some extent.

It MAY well be that as Brad speeds things up, he may be unconsciously changing WHICH of those three down-bowed notes he's choosing to accent.  That could certainly change the feel of it.

Edited by - Mike_Fontenot on 09/22/2012 12:04:57

Andah1andah2 - Posted - 09/22/2012:  17:53:06

Thanks everyone.  It may be a bit of everything to some degree.  But guess what...I emailed Brad himself to ask the question and he most graciously responded already with a detailed explanation.  As with everyone else, without watching what I'm doing its hard to know for sure but...

The main point is that the first downbow starts a half beat before the first beat."and one and two" with the first downbow on the "and" and the first beat on the "one".  I am probably thinking the first downbow is at the same time as the first beat.  Without some other instrument providing backup, it is easy to confuse the beat with the backbeat, giving the tune a different sound.  So I'll try toe tapping and having a different frame of mind when listening to the tune.

Anyway, Brad is such a nice guy to provide his time like he has.  Thanks to all!

Edited by - Andah1andah2 on 09/22/2012 17:55:08

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 09/23/2012:  05:15:50

Wow...that WAS very nice of him!