Wow. That story about “learning” to play has to be one of the most self-aggrandizing ones I’ve heard to date. I think the only one that comes close to it was meeting “the best fiddler in the world,” who couldn’t play anything at all when my father handed him his fiddle and asked for a display of his playing.

In your story, you were just starting out and a few older players tried to show you things they’d learned over their time playing that would help your technique. But you decided you already knew how to teach yourself better than more experienced players so you ignored their advice and “went your own way.” Years later you describe playing for other players and it being helpfully suggested that you play according to the same or principles shown to you by the old group of fiddlers. But again, you decided you were better than they were and knew more, and now you could add to your claim the fact that you’d been doing things your own way for some time (as though the length of time justified the ignorance). And you added to the pomposity of the story by describing helpful feedback from other players as though it was a badge of honor that you were told you didn’t sound like a fiddler and that you ignored it. That reminds me of a reckless driver, who, when asked why he swerved all over the road and caused drivers in the other lanes to panic or possibly get into accidents themselves, replied “What fun is it to drive inside the lines all the time?”

My account of people leaving isn’t a matter of belief. It’s what I was told directly. You keep claiming it’s just my interpretation, but that’s simply not true.

Being detached from everything is no freedom. Ignorance is a self-imposed incarceration. Freedom, especially in artistic endeavors, really comes AFTER a solid basis in structure and understanding.

I also went to school to read philosophy, and I went to a place where all classes were based on the Oxford tutorial method, where all classes were led by the students through discussion and the tutors were there mostly to facilitate the discussion or provide a starting point. It was a rather unique place in that it relied on original texts instead of predigested analyses. To be able to participate, one had to learn the conventions of discussion classes. Those students who were unwilling to follow the rules were kicked out by the end of Freshman year. Those who didn’t belong at the school but didn’t leave after the first year were disenabled at the end of Sophomore year and either given a description of what would need to be done to come back or simply told not to return. Seminars were often very passionate and could get quite heated as people poured their souls into some of the greatest questions in life. Once the class had been whittled down to a group of similarly passionate and considerate students, the cohesiveness and trust between everyone was truly moving, and the discussions stirred the soul. I can’t think of many environments of greater freedom than that one, but that republic was built on foundations of reason and tradition and it had rules that needed to be observed for it to exist. For those who liked to argue just for fun, there was an informal activity known as “Tuesday Night Fights,” where people would show up and debate a topic just for fun. It was considered one of the most comedic events and everyone who attended was friends with everyone else.

I don't think I'd actually disagree with much of your Reader's Digest summary. That's about the way it is for most of us, probably, in learning to play anything. Except for the armchair psychiatric diagnoses about my thinking I'm so much smarter or whatever you said. I wish I thought I was smart, or good at anything...lol...believe me, it would help if I could believe that for a minute or two.

I know you're having fun trying to torment me and diagnose me and trip me up with what you so cleverly twist into my musical sanctimoniousness or hypocrisy or whatever you're trying to do. But I am very busy and it's hard for me to write all this stuff with my hubby needing so much of my time and attention. I need to claim my time back...so...say what you want. Those anonymous folks you know that tell you secrets from the FHO so you know who to attack, how to navigate and all that, maybe they could continue on with whatever it is you are doing. I'm really busy and can't keep running around in ridiculous circles...I'm not running for office, am I? Why else would I have to repeatedly explain ad nauseum what I said, when, what I did, what some anonymous people said about me or whatever. Either I win or lose the election...lol. Gotta get back to where my real duties in life are at the moment.

Enjoy. Hope your day is good, V the Beautiful. Take care.

If I had a dollar for every time you claimed you didn’t have time to play or write posts on this forum, I could buy a great old Italian violin.

For real...we'd all be rich. Life is difficult for us these days. And I sincerely hope you never have to care for somebody you love as you both watch their heart and soul disappear and try to find how to deal with it in real time, every day, every hour, all the time.  I hope you never need to experience it.

I could be wrong but is it true that the critics usually don't post their own music??

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Originally posted by TuneWeaver

I could be wrong but is it true that the critics usually don't post their own music??

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Typically they don't. That's true in most areas of criticism. Part of it is that it would be a conflict of interest, part is that critics tend to evaluate their subject based on broad knowledge of the field and the history that surrounds it. The artist doesn't have to know all those things, only how to produce a culturally or historically valuable product. 
 

Can you imagine how it would go over if a critic panned the work of an artist and then in turn promoted his own work? While I believe that true objectivity is impossible, the professional critic should strive to come as close as possible. That's how my professional music critic father explained that part of his philosophy to me.

I'm not aware of any music critics who follow this forum, though. 

I'm feeling sick to my stomach

"I'm feeling sick to my stomach"

Its a matter of establishing Bona Fides. The art critic who couldn't fingerpaint a cat is not one whose opinion I value very much. Harsh? Maybe, but valid.

farmerjones, I’m sorry that so many people “Liked” that you were sick to your stomach :-D haha

I have lost the track of this thread, but anyway, I have enjoyed the latest additions to Sound Off!

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Originally posted by wrench13

"I'm feeling sick to my stomach"

Its a matter of establishing Bona Fides. The art critic who couldn't fingerpaint a cat is not one whose opinion I value very much. Harsh? Maybe, but valid.

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But therein lies the problem: if your judgment of an opinion is solely based on the ability of the one who holds that opinion to do something else, then it prioritizes talent over logic and reason. The best opinion is the one that is the most accurate. A very talented artist can have opinions that are utter nonsense and that's not an issue because the important thing there is producing art, not evaluating it. There are of course artists who are able to provide reasonable and balanced opinions on various topics, but still, the real validity of their opinions lies in the accuracy of their content, not in the raw talent.

Criticism is supposed to be based on knowledge as it is a form of expertise. And a good critic is one whose opinions hold up well under scrutiny and provide a realistic and nuanced articulation of the value of a work of art.

As hard as it may be to fathom, if an art critic were unable to finger paint a cat, his opinion would still be the most valid one if it could be shown to be the most accurate. Conversely, if an artist couldn't write a review of a piece of art with a crayon, that would be no strike against his own artistic ability. Art critics and artists have different roles that support each other. 
 

Thr rejection of criticism has been largely responsible for the decline in the quality of art. The "go it your own way" attitude has produced far too many artists who can't paint well, musicians who can't play well, and writers who can't write well. In all three of those fields the golden ages occurred in times when criticism was viewed as an important part of the culture. 

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Thr rejection of criticism has been largely responsible for the decline in the quality of art. The "go it your own way" attitude has produced far too many artists who can't paint well, musicians who can't play well, and writers who can't write well. In all three of those fields the golden ages occurred in times when criticism was viewed as an important part of the culture. 

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That's parody masquerading as a logical statement, right? Pompous airy BS as humor. And to think I once thought you had no sense of irony at all.

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Thr rejection of criticism has been largely responsible for the decline in the quality of art. The "go it your own way" attitude has produced far too many artists who can't paint well, musicians who can't play well, and writers who can't write well. In all three of those fields the golden ages occurred in times when criticism was viewed as an important part of the culture. 

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That's parody masquerading as a logical statement, right? Pompous airy BS as humor. And to think I once thought you had no sense of irony at all.

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Not parody at all. In all three fields, the deterioration in quality over time among many examples can be clearly seen. The general public realizes this and says "They just don't do it the way they used to," the critic can explain why. It's no coincidence that the desire to revitalize practices and sentiments of the past has exploded among younger generations.

It used to be the common thing for the wizened old man on the porch of the general store to be heard lamenting the loss of the old ways. Now it's more common to hear a teenager saying the same thing standing outside a boutique coffee shop. That's ironic, although it doesn't detract from the strength of the argument. 

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

Does anybody know why the Sound off Forum is no longer used like it once was used.

My previous comments and questions about this were met with responses that really confused me. Does anybody have any direct answer: Why are people not posting on there, not sharing their music, or just rarely using the Sound off forum? Anybody know why that is?

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Easy: because my level of fiddling is such that I wouldn't want others thinking 'why couldn't he just stick to mandolin and banjo, because that really sounded good'.....

I thought we put our crayons away on this one...sigh. Farmer Jones, you got any pepto bismal left?

Bruno, many new fiddlers, self-included, have shared stuff here over the years and got encouragement and a lot of questions answered too...not to mention just the learning curve and confidence you ace by putting something together enough and getting the guts to share it. You don't have to be a professional to share your stuff among others, of all levels, who love fiddling enough to partake in a fiddling forum. At least I hope not.

Peggy, I tend to be shy about sharing my progress in Sound Off, but I don't take unkindly to your posts urging members here to post more.

I also have the utmost sympathy for what you must be going through. Keep on posting, and recording when you can, it's good therapy!

TL;DR

The gist that I get from all this is that groundhogpeggy wants to share her music, and would like companionship in sharing.

For me, the sound-off is a place for folks to share what they are doing for a variety of reasons, it might be that they want to teach another a tune; share a tune that they find cool; want to show their skill level, how they have progressed over time, or just feel a part of the community. It is a community, though the level might not be up to some people's expectation for in-person interactions, but it might exceed them.

Many jam sessions i have been to have very little real human contact.

Most of this activity would seem to be in search of compliments, encouragement, or a general sharing of music.

Personally, I don't feel the need to share. though teaching a tune could be something I would record. I suppose I don't feel a need for compliments, etc., I am pretty much past that need, though I do like folks to appreciate my music, but usually when I perform it is for dancing, and seeing the dancers is its own reward.

I am good enough to have recorded a CD, but I do not play out regularly where people might be interested in buying one, especially since they seem to have become passe.

Yes, I got my presonus because of lack of any community with musicians or even people who like homespun music. No pot lucks. No gatherings. Right after I bought it I got too busy in early retirement, having to help out a lot of relatives and get involved in house renovations and stuff up and down the highway and didn't even get a chance to open the box. Then I ended up finding out that a little BG band needed a guitar player really bad. So I joined up with them. I really didn't get the style...not a flatpicker so it was awkward and I just tried my best to play it like they wanted it played. We went to a lot of BG jams and stuff...they were fast and loud and there was a lot of pressure to sound like people (most of whom I'd never heard of because I've always been more of a noodler than listener...I don't buy Cds or any of that)...so after all of that, I finally opened that box and had one heck of a stressful time trying to understand how to do the Presonus and studio one that came with it. Unfortunately, that became my "band," and community is anyone online who would be curious to hear what I'm doing or, even better, if they would like to join in and play along. Over the years, though, I've gone to playing stuff in a different key than where it's usually played, so I guess the playing along idea might not work with that. I can't help but try that kinda stuff though.

I do wish for the old jams I knew from long ago...they weren't really jams I guess, even though we called them that...they were actually potlucks in the community and those of us who brought instruments enjoyed playing something together.

I've never had the need for compliments and I don't mind anyone who dislikes my music...heck, I dislike a lot of music but I respect the person for playing it and realize how much of themselves they put into it. So, yeah, you can dislike my music and I'm ok with that, because I just love to do it so much that wouldn't stop me. It's just a need to belong somewhere with other folks. At least where I'm at, I'm not finding it.