The recording I learned from is played in F, by Christian Wig and Mark Ward (Come Back Boys & Feed the Horses)

but I play it in G (GDgd).  The best version - in my opinion. 

The version I learned from

https://www.slippery-hill.com/content/flying-indian

quote:Originally posted by tonyelderThe recording I learned from is played in F, by Christian Wig and Mark Ward (Come Back Boys & Feed the Horses)

but I play it in G (GDgd). The best version - in my opinion.

I much prefer GDGD. I wonder if I'll meet resistance in a jam... Is it commonly played in cross or is the D version more common now?

quote:

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Originally posted by CarolineinVan

quote:Originally posted by tonyelderThe recording I learned from is played in F, by Christian Wig and Mark Ward (Come Back Boys & Feed the Horses)

but I play it in G (GDgd). The best version - in my opinion.

I much prefer GDGD. I wonder if I'll meet resistance in a jam... Is it commonly played in cross or is the D version more common now?

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A few things - I would actually prefer to play it in F / crosstuned (maybe FCfc) - but I'm not going to retune my fiddle for one tune.  G is good enough (imo) to carry what I like about the tune - it has a lot of character. Especially on that recording.  Personal preference. 

But - I can't really speak about what might be considered "common". I don't know anyone else who plays it. I may spring it on our regular session and see what they think.

I really do like the tune - a lot.  Funny how that works though... stuff I really like never seems to find favor with others.  maybe this one will...

Caroline, I'm not familiar with this tune, but if you haven't seen it, you might be interested in this video by one of our members, despite the errors: youtu.be/r5So6g7I1u4?si=JCQXRXsCopzVL9Pr
Paul says the tune was first published in Knauff's "Virginia Reels" in A, which I can't confirm - I don't have Vol. 4 on this tablet, although I may have a .pdf here somewhere. If I find it I'll post it. Its important to remember that although those are fiddle tunes, in "Virginia Reels" they are arranged for piano, and the original key isn't always followed.
The recording by Christian Wig Tony posted is in Gb, not F, and certainly not in D. I'd imagine he's playing in G, tuned down a half step. He's no longer with us, so we can't ask him.
I don't generally cross tune, so I'd play it in G, tuned up or down, but cross tuning would work too.
Good luck. This tune is apparently from a time when Indians could fly. I have only a small Native American heritage, so I can't fly - just hop around a little bit.

I don't really know the tune, but I'd see if my jamming pals knew it first, before worrying about the key. If they play a lot of tunes in A, AEAE might be the key...otherwise, wait for the G tunes to come around and get it in GDGD. If you're the first one in your gang to play it, you can pick the key that you like it in best...lol...they'll just go along with what you do in that situation, most likely.

Thanks so much, that’s what I want to do whilst also respecting the tradition

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

Caroline, I'm not familiar with this tune, but if you haven't seen it, you might be interested in this video by one of our members, despite the errors: youtu.be/r5So6g7I1u4?si=JCQXRXsCopzVL9Pr
Paul says the tune was first published in Knauff's "Virginia Reels" in A, which I can't confirm - I don't have Vol. 4 on this tablet, although I may have a .pdf here somewhere. If I find it I'll post it. Its important to remember that although those are fiddle tunes, in "Virginia Reels" they are arranged for piano, and the original key isn't always followed.
The recording by Christian Wig Tony posted is in Gb, not F, and certainly not in D. I'd imagine he's playing in G, tuned down a half step. He's no longer with us, so we can't ask him.
I don't generally cross tune, so I'd play it in G, tuned up or down, but cross tuning would work too.
Good luck. This tune is apparently from a time when Indians could fly. I have only a small Native American heritage, so I can't fly - just hop around a little bit.

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I really like Paul's playing of this tune. A lot different tha, Christian's version - but that's ok. i know several tunes with very good versions that are not alike.  This version would problably be easier to get floks to play along and like....  maybe. 

Yes - you are right (of course) the recording is Gb.  Still the same problem - as good as that version "sounds" in that key - retuning for one tune is not really worth the effort. GDgd works. 

Thanks Doug. I'm going to work on Pasul's version.  Nice.

Yes! Paul's is the version I heard that made me want to learn this tune. It's really pretty. I'm going to play it in cross although getting people to tune to xG might be a problem - haha! Anyway, I like it better than any other version I've found so far. Thanks again to all of you.

Glad you found one you like. No need to require people to retune - Paul is playing in G. Just don't believe him when he says Chris Wig transposed it to D - at least on that record Chris is the one who played it on Gb.

Oh interesting, I heard Scott Prouty also transposed it to D and recorded it in D. Maybe he just recorded the D version...

seems we have two unrelated tunes in the conversation. (related by name only)

The Christian Wig recording is the Bill Shelor tune...
https://musicofourmountains.com/flying-indian/

Kirk's is the Knauff tune...

On playing style...Kirk has a cajuny shuffly feel more than an old time/Virginia style... to my ears at least... on the Knauff melody

both nice music


 

quote:

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

seems we have two unrelated tunes in the conversation. (related by name only)

The Christian Wig recording is the Bill Shelor tune...
https://musicofourmountains.com/flying-indian/

Kirk's is the Knauff tune...

On playing style...Kirk has a cajuny shuffly feel more than an old time/Virginia style... to my ears at least... on the Knauff melody

both nice music


 

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Interesting.  Yes. I wanted to hear them as the same.  Some of the phrases were able to convince me that the tunes were the same, but the version was a bigger variant.  There are several tunes that fit that category.

But you are right.   

https://www.slippery-hill.com/content/flying-indian   /   https://www.slippery-hill.com/content/flying-indian-0
 

And according to Gemini (yeap - gets me in trouble sometimes, but...) :

The Shelor Family Version (Carroll/Patrick County, VA)

This is the version most modern old-time musicians play today, popularized by players like Bruce Molsky and Dan Levenson.

• The Sound & Key: It's a driving, ancient-sounding melody usually played in the key of G. Banjo players frequently use an unusual "Last Chance" tuning ($gDGDE$) to capture its specific modal flavor.

• The Origin: It comes straight from the Blue Ridge mountain tradition of Meadows of Dan, Virginia, preserved by the Shelor-Blackard Family. They recorded it historically with a distinct fiddle-and-piano duet setup.

• The Variation Twist: Because the Shelor family's old piano couldn't hold standard pitch, they used to tune their fiddles down a whole step. So while they played G fingerings, it actually sounded in the key of F. Depending on who you jam with today, you might hear people play it at standard pitch (G) or dropped down low (F) to match that original family field-recording vibe.

The Knauff's "Virginia Reels" Version (1839)

This is a completely different, much older historical piece.

• The Origin: This melody was published by a German-immigrant music teacher named George P. Knauff in his 1839 collection, Virginia Reels.

• The History: It predates the Civil War and is tied to the 19th-century American circus and theatrical traditions. In the 1820s and 30s, "scenic riding" acts featured acrobatic equestrians dressed as Native American warriors performing tricks on horseback, often titled "The Flying Indian". This tune was essentially the stage music or theme song for those popular traveling circus acts.

Yes. And now I'm going to learn the Knauff version - in G - the way Paul plays it.   unashamed