Nut accuracy and most likely fingerboard flatness, curvature are coming into play. Also tuning - fiddles are tuned in perfect fifths. If your using a guitar type tuner that also can affect things.

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Originally posted by Lemon Banjos

I have several fiddles that all have wonky intonation. I printed off a "fingerboard guide" for testing purposes only (I know those things aren't that accurate, I just wanted it as a reference for a straight line across the fingerboard), and tested intonation. You would think that the intonation on one string would be the same as the string beside it right? Like the line on the diagram would be either perfect between two strings, equally flat, or equally sharp, right?

Well, no such luck. The one fiddle I tested was basically this: The G, D, and A strings were relatively close to each other, but the E string was considerably flat from the rest.

I only tested one fiddle, but I know several of mine have similar issues.

I am very limited in my knowledge of fiddle setup (only thing I've ever done is cut new bridges to match the old ones). I am a banjo builder though. Anyone have any advice on how to chase down the issue?

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Assuming the strings are in tune, if you play parallel fifths (double stops with one finger covering two strings) and they're out of tune, it's most likely a fingerboard issue. If the board isn't worn, it may be the curvature that's off, if it has lots of signs of wear (like tracks under the strings or pits where the fingers touch the board), the surface irregularities may be causing pitch to deflect during playing. If the scoop is not  correct, it might mean that there's a hump somewhere that's throwing things off.

The nut could contribute to it, but I'd start with the fingerboard and then check the nut after it's right.

A good violin luthier will have the tools to check all these things and the understanding of setup to be able to diagnose the issue quickly once it's on the bench. 

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

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Originally posted by Lemon Banjos

I have several fiddles that all have wonky intonation. I printed off a "fingerboard guide" for testing purposes only (I know those things aren't that accurate, I just wanted it as a reference for a straight line across the fingerboard), and tested intonation. You would think that the intonation on one string would be the same as the string beside it right? Like the line on the diagram would be either perfect between two strings, equally flat, or equally sharp, right?

Well, no such luck. The one fiddle I tested was basically this: The G, D, and A strings were relatively close to each other, but the E string was considerably flat from the rest.

I only tested one fiddle, but I know several of mine have similar issues.

I am very limited in my knowledge of fiddle setup (only thing I've ever done is cut new bridges to match the old ones). I am a banjo builder though. Anyone have any advice on how to chase down the issue?

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Assuming the strings are in tune, if you play parallel fifths (double stops with one finger covering two strings) and they're out of tune, it's most likely a fingerboard issue. If the board isn't worn, it may be the curvature that's off, if it has lots of signs of wear (like tracks under the strings or pits where the fingers touch the board), the surface irregularities may be causing pitch to deflect during playing. If the scoop is not  correct, it might mean that there's a hump somewhere that's throwing things off.

The nut could contribute to it, but I'd start with the fingerboard and then check the nut after it's right.

A good violin luthier will have the tools to check all these things and the understanding of setup to be able to diagnose the issue quickly once it's on the bench. 

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Do you have any suggestions of people within 1-2 hours of Glenville WV who'd be able to look at them? I have about 4-5 I'd like looked at, but I'd probably only take them in batches of 2 (since I have a double case).

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Originally posted by Lemon Banjos

Do you have any suggestions of people within 1-2 hours of Glenville WV who'd be able to look at them? I have about 4-5 I'd like looked at, but I'd probably only take them in batches of 2 (since I have a double case).

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Unfortunately, the places I'd recommend are all more than 2 hours away. Given the price of gas, shipping might actually be cheaper (it feels a bit odd to say that) and would give you greater access if you're not averse. 

Does anyone know of any well-respected setup guys in West Virginia at all?

Hunter, you asked almost this same question two years ago, and the recommendation was Bob Smakula in Elkins. I think his expertise is more with fretted instruments, but you could at least contact him for advice:
smakulafrettedinstruments.com/
BTW, it seems odd to me that you would have 4 or 5 instruments with the same problem, and I would suspect your testing methods. How are you stopping the strings to test with your chart? If you build banjos you can certainly inspect the fingerboards for irregularities, even if you don't get into details. I've had 5 or 6 old violins over the years and never had this problem. Shipping that many instruments and paying a luthier to look at them is going to be expensive for sure.
Good luck.

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Originally posted by DougD

Hunter, you asked almost this same question two years ago, and the recommendation was Bob Smakula in Elkins. I think his expertise is more with fretted instruments, but you could at least contact him for advice:
smakulafrettedinstruments.com/
BTW, it seems odd to me that you would have 4 or 5 instruments with the same problem, and I would suspect your testing methods. How are you stopping the strings to test with your chart? If you build banjos you can certainly inspect the fingerboards for irregularities, even if you don't get into details. I've had 5 or 6 old violins over the years and never had this problem. Shipping that many instruments and paying a luthier to look at them is going to be expensive for sure.
Good luck.

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I completely forgot asking it before, but since you mention it, I remember doing so now. 

I have dealt with Bob in many times in past and was always pleased, I'll send him an email.

When I established the lines parallel to the nut, I used my fingernail on the string right on the line, so I could rule out the issue being the placement of the end of my finger.

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Originally posted by Lemon Banjos

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Originally posted by DougD

Hunter, you asked almost this same question two years ago, and the recommendation was Bob Smakula in Elkins. I think his expertise is more with fretted instruments, but you could at least contact him for advice:
smakulafrettedinstruments.com/
BTW, it seems odd to me that you would have 4 or 5 instruments with the same problem, and I would suspect your testing methods. How are you stopping the strings to test with your chart? If you build banjos you can certainly inspect the fingerboards for irregularities, even if you don't get into details. I've had 5 or 6 old violins over the years and never had this problem. Shipping that many instruments and paying a luthier to look at them is going to be expensive for sure.
Good luck.

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I completely forgot asking it before, but since you mention it, I remember doing so now. 

I have dealt with Bob in many times in past and was always pleased, I'll send him an email.

When I established the lines parallel to the nut, I used my fingernail on the string right on the line, so I could rule out the issue being the placement of the end of my finger.

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Bob Smakula is in Elkins, but he's winding down his business. According to his website, he's only accepting local repairs and mostly referring work to other places. 

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Originally posted by Lemon Banjos

 You would think that the intonation on one string would be the same as the string beside it right? Like the line on the diagram would be either perfect between two strings, equally flat, or equally sharp, right?
 

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No, not really. Not sure how much we are talking about but it's not perfect.

There are a few things, folks often leave out, about physics, can maybe easier see or compare to instruments with straight frets, like banjo, guitar or mandolin. (and the frustration they have with getting perfect intonation)

Individual string differences in diameter/mass/tension/end stiffness... typically the string length needs to be compensated, slightly longer distance on lower stings; however wrapped strings vs solid create a difference different. This is why notice guitar/mando have angled bridges as well often compensated bridge.

Further the string is not flat on the fingerboard, simply calculation of division of nut to bridge length; but slightly elevated and the stopped string is pushed down, making angle determined by bridge height (and releif angle); which can vary a bit by string, changing the angle and actual sounding length relation. Pushing down the string is also stretching, a bit like bending a guitar string, and different string tension will have different effect.

FWIW, fretless instruments, players can somewhat learn to adjust finger, but string age can have affect (wear, stretch, rosin or dirt/oil on string).

I'd emphasize that violins are tuned in perfect fifths, which are wider than the equal tempered fifth. If you are using a tuner with 12T equal temperament the results will be misleading. If you don't have a tuner that can display perfect fifths, there are plenty of free apps out there that can.

If the violin is set up properly, a finger placed on both strings parallel to each other will make a perfect fifth that’s in tune via just intonation. If it’s not in tune (assuming the strings are tuned properly), then the fingerboard needs work.

As someone who specializes in setup, customers often bring instruments to me because of this problem. Just a couple weeks ago I worked on a cello for a shop that had this issue, and it was a condition of the sale that it needed to be corrected before the customer would make a purchase. I planed the fingerboard and it was good to go with perfect parallel fifths.

Sometimes there’s player error, but there really can be issues with the equipment. This is why a good setup is so critical. A luthier can check it. It’s impossible to diagnose the problem without seeing it.

Before making a trip or sending it out, you can double check that your strings are in tune and the fingers are completely parallel (not hitting at an oblique angle) on the strings. It is odd to have several violins with this issue, but if they were set up by the same person, that would make sense.

There is a discrepancy between an equal tempered fifth and a just one, but when you’re playing the difference shouldn’t be that huge between them. If it’s really obvious, something is off.