I think a lot of people could, and AI is just digging through what other people have already written and regurgitating it. The problem is that while it can quickly spit out lengthy answers, it does not necessarily provide correct answers. For instance, I think Irish players might not all be in agreement that beat 1 gets the greatest emphasis.

People have demonstrated that AI will present information as factual that it realizes is flawed because users respond better to definitive statements. Restating questions can sometimes generate different answers.

If you’re asking questions whose answers aren’t important, AI advice is probably sufficient, but for anything that matters, it isn’t at that level (at least thus far).

well obviously but it is relevant and coherent and you could interrogate it further without worrying about upsetting it. And every time it would spit out a relevant immediate answer, and apologize and thank you if it proved to be wrong. What is the point in asking biased fallible humans about any subject.

Here's another example i'll give credit to anyone who can come up with and post a better answer here in under 2 seconds. without using AI

Q: which modal Scales or Gamuts are used against a D drone in Irish traditional music (ITM)

A: In Irish Traditional Music (ITM), the D drone is the most fundamental reference point, primarily due to the physical nature of the Uilleann pipes, which have drones tuned to D by default.

When playing against a D drone, four primary modal scales (often called "gamuts" in older contexts) are used. Each one creates a distinct harmonic "flavor" based on how its notes interact with that constant D root.
1. D Ionian (The Major Scale)

This is the standard major scale. Against a D drone, it feels bright, stable, and "resolved."

Scale: D - E - F# - G - A - B - C# - D

Effect: This is the most common sound in ITM. The F# and C# create a clear major tonality.

Common Tunes: Speed the Plough, The Kesh Jig.

2. D Mixolydian

This is very similar to the major scale but features a flatted 7th (C natural instead of C#).

Scale: D - E - F# - G - A - B - C (natural) - D

Effect: This creates a "bluesy" or ancient tension against the drone. The C natural creates a subtle dissonance with the D that feels characteristically "Irish."

Common Tunes: The Red-Haired Boy, Rakish Paddy.

3. D Dorian

This is a minor-sounding mode, but it is "brighter" than a standard minor scale because of the natural 6th (B natural).

Scale: D - E - F (natural) - G - A - B (natural) - C - D

Effect: This is the most popular "minor" mode in ITM. The F natural creates a dark, melancholic mood, but the B natural prevents it from sounding too heavy or "classical."

Common Tunes: The Star of Munster, Drowsy Maggie.

4. D Aeolian (The Natural Minor Scale)

This is the "pure" minor scale. It is less common than Dorian but still appears frequently.

Scale: D - E - F (natural) - G - A - Bb - C - D

Effect: This has a very dark, somber, and sometimes "lament-like" quality. Because the Bb clashes significantly with the pipes' natural tuning (which favors B natural), it is often played on the flute or fiddle where the player can adjust the pitch more easily.

Common Tunes: The Musical Priest.

Comparison of D Modes
Mode 3rd Degree 6th Degree 7th Degree Mood
Ionian F# (Major) B (Natural) C# (Major) Bright / Happy
Mixolydian F# (Major) B (Natural) C (Flat) Driving / Traditional
Dorian F (Minor) B (Natural) C (Flat) Haunting / Rhythmic
Aeolian F (Minor) Bb (Flat) C (Flat) Dark / Sad
A Note on the "E Dorian" and "A Mixolydian"

In a session, you will often hear tunes in E Dorian or A Mixolydian played while the piper leaves their D drones running. This creates a "polytonal" effect where the D drone acts as a sub-tonic (a whole step below the home note of E) or a fourth (below the home note of A). While theoretically "clashing," this is a hallmark of the Uilleann pipe sound.

Would you like me to explain how to identify these modes by ear when listening to a recording?

EDiT: Times up!

Wow yes AI is smart.

I already lost my last work project to AI…It’s actually pretty scary! I am at a point where I’m kind of winding down on work anyway…but for the kids just launching their careers - it’s pretty scary.

It doesn't scare me i use it for loads of stuff nowadays. It will go as deep as you want, or need to. But one of the things it can't do (yet) is play scrapey old man fiddle.

Just answering questions isn’t unique to AI, though. You could have gotten the answers to these questions by Googling in the past. Before that you just had to look it up. The computer just sped up the process of getting to the source.

The concern with AI is that it is supposed to go beyond data retrieval and provide analysis and interpretation. It doesn’t always do this accurately, and where there’s nuance it tends to go into the absurd. If AI technology is relied upon too heavily, human expertise will no longer exist and we will become dependent. You always pay for convenience.

i can sort the absurd out as easily as the silly fiddle sounds it comes up with.

As a typical Gen X'er I got the digital and online world suddenly thrown into my face, but I have known the analogue world as well. I embrace the best of both worlds daily.
I just spotted an awesome looking vintage drawer (? not sure furniture names are difficult in english) right outside in the neighbourhood, it was for free. I am now the very proud owner of this drawer. In fact I just got back home and learned with chatgpt that it indeed was a remarkable find: it's a pre-war belgian art deco daily furniture piece in solid oak or oak veneer, with a darker redbrown finish, not painted and chromium door and drawer handles, and with a top thick structure made for functionality and meant to withstand the tooth of time.
It's beautiful when you see it It's only dusty and could use another layer of finish in exactly that shade but for the rest it's beautiful and perfect.

AI can describe a drawer like that, but it can never create the same let alone that it can breathe the spirit of that time era.

yes thesubject of whether AI is good at identifying cupboards is another question lol

lol Pete :-p Right now ChatGPT is giving me advice on how to bring this piece back to it's original state: it has a door that could hang more straight and in the back there is a tiny very tiny little crack in the veneer back plate. ChatGPT warns me on not to sand through the veneer when I prepare it for varnish and warns me about the finish; to choose something like satin not glossy. It gives the good advice I expect from all that data put together.

To me a find like this is priceless, and ChatGPT always follows my enthusiasm LOL. My end conclusion is always that AI behaves very woke. BUT when you get annoyed by that woke attitude and confront it with it, it plays innocent victim.

It seems to me that to take advantage of the capabilities of AI you might ask it to do things that a simple Google search can’t, like coming up with a plan to make another cupboard that’s of the style but with some customized features, or to come up with a picture of a matching set of furniture that you could superimpose on your living room to get a sense of the decor.

Just asking a reference question will lead to an answer, but since AI isn’t focused on accuracy of information, you’ll get mixed results.

When AI is asked a question and it provides a bad answer, it’s not necessarily a mistake in the operating system; the program forms answers to questions by surveying data available online. There are two problems: there is a lot of simply bad information available online, and the program can’t discern between good information and bad. It trawls through whatever it can find and cobbles together an answer, and that means it can be way off the mark. But it’s trained to adopt a confident “attitude” in order to garner respect and reduce doubt. In a sense it’s designed to sell you on its answers rather than just presenting data. It doesn’t actually have expertise, but by mimicking confident speech patterns, it can fool lazy thinkers into believing it’s authoritative.

"it can fool lazy thinkers into believing it’s authoritative."

That is the take away for me. I just slap it down if it starts "coming the old soldier"...lol.

It apologizes and rephrases the answer. And thanks me for the privilage, Obviously storing that information on my algorithm. same as this
site is probably doing. but it can still come up with answers to music theory questions lickety split

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

When AI is asked a question and it provides a bad answer, it’s not necessarily a mistake in the operating system; the program forms answers to questions by surveying data available online. There are two problems: there is a lot of simply bad information available online, and the program can’t discern between good information and bad. It trawls through whatever it can find and cobbles together an answer, and that means it can be way off the mark. But it’s trained to adopt a confident “attitude” in order to garner respect and reduce doubt. In a sense it’s designed to sell you on its answers rather than just presenting data. It doesn’t actually have expertise, but by mimicking confident speech patterns, it can fool lazy thinkers into believing it’s authoritative.

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I use ChatGPT regularly for all kinds of things. And while caution is in order it does seem to gather and collate information from a wide range and very frequently it provides a fairly in depth view about what you are asking. But it can get side-tracked when problem solving, for instance, and can send you down a wrong path because it doesn't understand that perhaps you yourself have overlooked something simple on your side. As you say, it does present itself confidently. But more seductive is the way it speaks to YOU. It tends to flatter and lean in on your biases. From time to time I will instruct it to not do that so much. You can tailor its response patterns to some extent by saying how you want to be treated. By that I mean asking it to treat you with more skepticism and less flattery. You can ask it to be more succinct or more elaborate. That's part of the fun, thinking of what to ask and how to ask it. You're not limited there.You can have long philosophical discussions if you like. Back and forth. It can be very interesting.

I'm not an advocate of the technology, just a user of what is available. It's pretty remarkable if you work with it and not just passively ask and get answers. One other thing I almost forget about is that probably lots of people speak to it and listen to its answers. I wouldn't dream of doing that. I prefer typing and reading, like we do here.

" just a user of what is available", Nice way of looking at it. i just use Gemini, and i find it a good/great creative tool. And it will go along with my flights of fancy, or tell me where i am "stretching it" a bit 

Q: can you write a short story aout a man living on an Irish bog on his own, using the musical dorian mode and the mixolydian mode as an atmospheric background

A: The peat smoke didn’t rise so much as it hovered, a gray ribbon lost in a gray sky. Colm lived where the earth was more water than soil, a stretch of brown-black heather and moss that shivered underfoot.

To live here was to live in a specific kind of music—one that didn't follow the bright, resolved path of the village folk songs, but wandered through the ancient scales of the landscape.
The Morning: Dorian Gray

As Colm stepped outside, the air tasted of salt and damp earth. The atmosphere was purely Dorian. It carried a minor weight, a soulful melancholy, but with a surprising spark of light—that sharp, raised sixth note that felt like a sudden gust of wind over a dark lake.

The Sound: The wind whistled through the dried reeds in a D?E?F?G?A?B??C pattern. It wasn't depressing; it was stoic.

The Feeling: The Dorian mode provided a sense of "noble loneliness." Colm wasn’t hiding from the world; he was simply in a conversation with a version of it that existed before cities. Every step on the spongy turf felt like a steady, rhythmic drone beneath a wandering, modal melody.

The Afternoon: Mixolydian Light

By midday, the heavy mist thinned. The sun didn't exactly break through, but it saturated the clouds, turning the bog into a canvas of glowing copper and rusted orange. The mood shifted into the Mixolydian.

The "flat seventh" of the scale took over—that bluesy, earthy note that feels grounded but expansive. If the morning was about the soul, the afternoon was about the soil.

The Sound: The trickle of the black stream over stones moved in a G?A?B?C?D?E?F? sequence. It lacked the tension of a leading tone; it didn't need to "arrive" anywhere.

The Feeling: There was a rugged warmth now. The Mixolydian atmosphere felt ancient and communal, even in his solitude. It was the sound of the Great Bog breathing. Colm sat on a limestone outcrop, watching a hawk circle. The world felt open, circular, and eternal.

The Evening Hearth

As night fell, the two modes blurred. Colm retreated to his stone cottage, the fire crackling with the sweet, heavy scent of burning turf.

Inside, the shadows played Dorian tricks—long, elegant, and slightly mournful—while the glow of the embers stayed Mixolydian, humming with a low, flat-seven resonance that promised rest without the need for resolution. He was a man out of time, kept company by the intervals of the earth.

Would you like me to describe a specific piece of music or a playlist that captures these two Irish modal atmospheres?
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Took it about half a second to reply

I never use it to produce stuff for me. That just doesn't interest me. I interact conversationally.

quote:

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Q: can you write a short story aout a man living on an Irish bog on his own, using the musical dorian mode and the mixolydian mode as an atmospheric background

A: The peat smoke didn’t rise so much as it hovered, a gray ribbon lost in a gray sky. Colm lived where the earth was more water than soil, a stretch of brown-black heather and moss that shivered underfoot.

To live here was to live in a specific kind of music—one that didn't follow the bright, resolved path of the village folk songs, but wandered through the ancient scales of the landscape.
The Morning: Dorian Gray

As Colm stepped outside, the air tasted of salt and damp earth. The atmosphere was purely Dorian. It carried a minor weight, a soulful melancholy, but with a surprising spark of light—that sharp, raised sixth note that felt like a sudden gust of wind over a dark lake.

The Sound: The wind whistled through the dried reeds in a D?E?F?G?A?B??C pattern. It wasn't depressing; it was stoic.

The Feeling: The Dorian mode provided a sense of "noble loneliness." Colm wasn’t hiding from the world; he was simply in a conversation with a version of it that existed before cities. Every step on the spongy turf felt like a steady, rhythmic drone beneath a wandering, modal melody.

The Afternoon: Mixolydian Light

By midday, the heavy mist thinned. The sun didn't exactly break through, but it saturated the clouds, turning the bog into a canvas of glowing copper and rusted orange. The mood shifted into the Mixolydian.

The "flat seventh" of the scale took over—that bluesy, earthy note that feels grounded but expansive. If the morning was about the soul, the afternoon was about the soil.

The Sound: The trickle of the black stream over stones moved in a G?A?B?C?D?E?F? sequence. It lacked the tension of a leading tone; it didn't need to "arrive" anywhere.

The Feeling: There was a rugged warmth now. The Mixolydian atmosphere felt ancient and communal, even in his solitude. It was the sound of the Great Bog breathing. Colm sat on a limestone outcrop, watching a hawk circle. The world felt open, circular, and eternal.

The Evening Hearth

As night fell, the two modes blurred. Colm retreated to his stone cottage, the fire crackling with the sweet, heavy scent of burning turf.

Inside, the shadows played Dorian tricks—long, elegant, and slightly mournful—while the glow of the embers stayed Mixolydian, humming with a low, flat-seven resonance that promised rest without the need for resolution. He was a man out of time, kept company by the intervals of the earth.

Would you like me to describe a specific piece of music or a playlist that captures these two Irish modal atmospheres?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Took it about half a second to reply

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That it was fast at making slop is important?

BTW- if this interests you, can play with AI for music; such as Suno or Udio

No its what i make of the "slop" is important

quote:

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Originally posted by alaskafiddler

quote:

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Q: can you write a short story aout a man living on an Irish bog on his own, using the musical dorian mode and the mixolydian mode as an atmospheric background

A: The peat smoke didn’t rise so much as it hovered, a gray ribbon lost in a gray sky. Colm lived where the earth was more water than soil, a stretch of brown-black heather and moss that shivered underfoot.

To live here was to live in a specific kind of music—one that didn't follow the bright, resolved path of the village folk songs, but wandered through the ancient scales of the landscape.
The Morning: Dorian Gray

As Colm stepped outside, the air tasted of salt and damp earth. The atmosphere was purely Dorian. It carried a minor weight, a soulful melancholy, but with a surprising spark of light—that sharp, raised sixth note that felt like a sudden gust of wind over a dark lake.

The Sound: The wind whistled through the dried reeds in a D?E?F?G?A?B??C pattern. It wasn't depressing; it was stoic.

The Feeling: The Dorian mode provided a sense of "noble loneliness." Colm wasn’t hiding from the world; he was simply in a conversation with a version of it that existed before cities. Every step on the spongy turf felt like a steady, rhythmic drone beneath a wandering, modal melody.

The Afternoon: Mixolydian Light

By midday, the heavy mist thinned. The sun didn't exactly break through, but it saturated the clouds, turning the bog into a canvas of glowing copper and rusted orange. The mood shifted into the Mixolydian.

The "flat seventh" of the scale took over—that bluesy, earthy note that feels grounded but expansive. If the morning was about the soul, the afternoon was about the soil.

The Sound: The trickle of the black stream over stones moved in a G?A?B?C?D?E?F? sequence. It lacked the tension of a leading tone; it didn't need to "arrive" anywhere.

The Feeling: There was a rugged warmth now. The Mixolydian atmosphere felt ancient and communal, even in his solitude. It was the sound of the Great Bog breathing. Colm sat on a limestone outcrop, watching a hawk circle. The world felt open, circular, and eternal.

The Evening Hearth

As night fell, the two modes blurred. Colm retreated to his stone cottage, the fire crackling with the sweet, heavy scent of burning turf.

Inside, the shadows played Dorian tricks—long, elegant, and slightly mournful—while the glow of the embers stayed Mixolydian, humming with a low, flat-seven resonance that promised rest without the need for resolution. He was a man out of time, kept company by the intervals of the earth.

Would you like me to describe a specific piece of music or a playlist that captures these two Irish modal atmospheres?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Took it about half a second to reply

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That it was fast at making slop is important?

BTW- if this interests you, can play with AI for music; such as Suno or Udio

 

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I was thinking along the same lines. If you ask it to compose some poetry, can it come up with something that's worse than the poetry of the Vogons, the Azgoths of Kria, and even the worst in the universe, that of Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings of Sussex, to borrow from Douglas Adams? And can it even do it in two seconds?

Are you expecting AI to "Create" a tune that will be acceptable to You? I think that is where it would fail. But it can spit out a load of random stuff that you or i could use for inspiration.

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

I think a lot of people could, and AI is just digging through what other people have already written and regurgitating it. The problem is that while it can quickly spit out lengthy answers, it does not necessarily provide correct answers. For instance, I think Irish players might not all be in agreement that beat 1 gets the greatest emphasis.

People have demonstrated that AI will present information as factual that it realizes is flawed because users respond better to definitive statements. Restating questions can sometimes generate different answers.

If you’re asking questions whose answers aren’t important, AI advice is probably sufficient, but for anything that matters, it isn’t at that level (at least thus far).

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You are correct about all this. But what gets overlooked is your ability to interact with it. So if you want to pursue whether Irish players are broadly in agreement with the points it just made, ask it. And continue asking about anything it says, just as you might in a discussion with a human. Ongoing interactions with AI give you more. Somehow the culture seems stuck on the idea that AI says things or produces things and that's the end of it. 

quote:

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

No its what i make of the "slop" is important

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Okay, I'm just not sure what you could make of that.

Or why it was important that it was fast at that part of it.

Even in the OP, seems to equate good with fast. Why is that important? For someone who wants to learn, it should take them much longer to digest the info anyway.

Because inspiration doesn't last long with me, i have to grab it when it arises. It could have 100 random takes on a subject, while i am still thinking about 1 bad idea

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

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 Somehow the culture seems stuck on the idea that AI says things or produces things and that's the end of it. 

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 Wish i could Like this more than once, AI is a tool not a solution.

quote:

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Are you expecting AI to "Create" a tune that will be acceptable to You? I think that is where it would fail. But it can spit out a load of random stuff that you or i could use for inspiration.

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I have played with it, as it's training on us it's getting better. On surface it doesn't fail, can indeed quickly "create" music that is acceptable for many and being used for commercial purposes. 

It is especially good at following "rules" and algorithm based creation (that is, following similar to your OP questions you asked)

These I did almost 2 years ago... without spending much time and it's improved a lot since, and with slightly better prompts, could even be more impressive. If that's what you are after.

Udio's Emerald Jig

Udio Cajun song

If find those sufficient then AI works for you. Similar, my comment on "slop" - if you find that story sufficient then you do. I didn't find it much of a good story,or what would ever use that for.