Yes, I agree, Dick. If your mind starts wandering off into different directions while you're playing music, you can easily just go bonkers with it. I've played before while not focusing, and found myself ending up on a different tune that I'd started on...lol...that's a weird feeling...like..."How'd I get here?"

Same here. Mental focus is where it’s at.

My perspective on this might be a little different.

I think of there being two sides to learning to play:

One is creating muscle memory to go from imagined sound to making that sound on the fiddle.

The other is getting an aural memory of the sound and the rhythm of tunes into the mind and body.

These things are not completely separate or distinct because the brain and body is complex and everything is interconnected. But the point is that I don't try to keep a muscle memory for tunes - I actually find that counterproductive sometimes.

I learn the tunes and rhythms by singing/lilting in my head as I listen to them, and by tapping my fingers and feet etc to the rhythm. This doesn't require the fiddle at all. I described this in depth here.

I find this aural/rhythmic memory of the tune is easier to maintain longer term than muscle memory of playing the tune.  There are some tunes that I learned a few years ago mainly as muscle memory by playing them over and over again without having a solid aural memory of the tune from listening to it deeply and singing it, and these tunes I can't play without listening to them again.  On the other hand, there are tunes I have an aural memory of that I can find on the fiddle relatively quickly without even having to listen to them.  (Depending on how solid the aural memory is and how complex the tune is I might need to listen to them to find some of the details).

That said, to be able to start a tune in a session for example and know I can get through it without making a mistake, it's good to run through it beforehand, to make sure the body is ready to string together all the bits of muscle memory that make the sounds of that tune, and to find bits that are tricky and get the muscle memory down for the tricky bits.  But I find it can be helpful to let a tune go for a while and then figure it out again from the aural memory rather than trying to maintain muscle memory for every tune forever. 

Molly Gebrian has written Learn Faster, Perform Better.
Neuroscience can be applied to your fiddlin. The book goes step by step on how to learn music and remember it. I am learning to like the methods the book teaches. Worth the cost of the book and the time.
Amazon has it.

Why do you forget tunes you've spent so much time on? Well I have a different problem.. Why CAN I play today tunes that I worked on years ago, forgot, gave up on and decided I'll never be able to play that tune? Yep.. Suddenly, one day that tune will come into my head and I can play it!!! They say that life is complex because it has both real and imaginary parts. I suspect that the real part is that I CAN play the tune and the imaginary part is that I gave up on it thinking it was unplayable by me.. What say you guys?

My imaginary part makes me believe I played the whole tune while recording it .. always appears afterwards I left out the coolest phrases or parts :-p Good to know I play better when no recordings are being made! My car usb stick is so great for humming my favorite tunes now, but some tunes need to go while others still need to be put on it, like Flander's Dream for example. I'm also hoping the young man I'm following on YouTube soon brings out some sort of digital album I can buy, that would rock. More music I need and that's for sure belonging to the real part!!! I'm turning from just a trying and aspiring oldtime player into a collecting crazy oldtime fiddle fan. 

Got a new job so from time to time I can afford to invest in some albums , but I became pretty picky on what I want :-))) 

It's going to get busy from now on, but totally ready for it! 

quote:

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Originally posted by umbellularia

My perspective on this might be a little different.

I think of there being two sides to learning to play:

One is creating muscle memory to go from imagined sound to making that sound on the fiddle.

The other is getting an aural memory of the sound and the rhythm of tunes into the mind and body.

These things are not completely separate or distinct because the brain and body is complex and everything is interconnected. But the point is that I don't try to keep a muscle memory for tunes - I actually find that counterproductive sometimes.

I learn the tunes and rhythms by singing/lilting in my head as I listen to them, and by tapping my fingers and feet etc to the rhythm. This doesn't require the fiddle at all. I described this in depth here.

I find this aural/rhythmic memory of the tune is easier to maintain longer term than muscle memory of playing the tune.  There are some tunes that I learned a few years ago mainly as muscle memory by playing them over and over again without having a solid aural memory of the tune from listening to it deeply and singing it, and these tunes I can't play without listening to them again.  On the other hand, there are tunes I have an aural memory of that I can find on the fiddle relatively quickly without even having to listen to them.  (Depending on how solid the aural memory is and how complex the tune is I might need to listen to them to find some of the details).

That said, to be able to start a tune in a session for example and know I can get through it without making a mistake, it's good to run through it beforehand, to make sure the body is ready to string together all the bits of muscle memory that make the sounds of that tune, and to find bits that are tricky and get the muscle memory down for the tricky bits.  But I find it can be helpful to let a tune go for a while and then figure it out again from the aural memory rather than trying to maintain muscle memory for every tune forever. 

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yea, I think the "aural memory" is what makes us able to start playing a tune in any key...
But then the "muscle memory" kicks in and then I'm like,"Wait...that doesn't feel right...I must be in the wrong key!"  (Because the fingers don't feel familiar even if notes sound about right...)

It's not like I don’t bother. It's more like I've given up. I never know the next tune to come along at the jam or a gig. Seldom am I given the key.
I can kinda play this thing. That's my survival skill.
I practice 4 or 5 of the same tunes, just to connect the mechanics to something. Still love it. I think that helps.
FJ

If it’s in my head, I can play it. If it’s in my fingers it’s a little more clunky. If it’s on paper, it ain’t happening.

I gotta say that when I'm playing any of my musical instruments my focus is essentially 100%. I just can't play any of them casually. Playing music consumes me utterly.

You can see it in my face, unfortunately. A blank expression. I work at it from time to time. At least I don't do the 'John Hartford thing.'

I'm about to google him now.
I have a mouth that I should close while playing (seriously), it looks quite ridiculous when I'm practising complex parts :-p

quote:

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Originally posted by Quincy

I'm about to google him now.
I have a mouth that I should close while playing (seriously), it looks quite ridiculous when I'm practising complex parts :-p

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Shove that Hogs Foot

Save you some trouble. But, oh he's a gooood fiddler!

Hartford talks at length about moving his mouth while fiddling on his old video "Trying to Teach My Hands to Do What I Hear In My Head" (or something like that). If you've never seen it, its a great peek inside his eclectic musical mind.

Cant remember exactly whzt he says, but he fully recognizes and embraces it.

I posted an except from the video:

youtube.com/watch?v=82D435BXc58

Funny, I've watched other segments of that concert video, but never that one. John "cleaned up" that story compared to what I've heard, which goes back to slavery times. Oddly, Thomas Talley's 1922 book "Negro Folk Rhymes" contains an index entry for that title, but no page number, and I've never found it hiding anywhere in the book - mysterious. Also, the tune John plays doesn't sound to me like the Marcus Martin one you usually hear -sounds more like "Red Haired Boy."
John was an inventive banjo player too. Here's a live recording I made of him in 1979. It was a track from an LP that has never been issued on CD, so I'll post it here. Easier to concentrate on the music without the visual.