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Tobias - Posted - 03/22/2009: 23:54:00
I have noticed that my playing tends to be better when I play with a mute (or some clothes pins) on my fiddle. Almost everything tends to be better. Tone, smothness etc. I am guessing there could be at least 2 reasons. Either my playing is exactly the same and the mute just removes all scratchy sounds and effects of shaky bowing or (the one I'm hoping ,-) the reduced volume makes me less intimidated by having a loud fiddle right next to my ear and "play like I mean it".
I live in a small apartment and is a bit timid when I play.
Has anyone experienced this?
It's very tempting to play with a mute (clothepins) all the time, but I'm afraid that I'll get used to it, and won't be able to get a feel for playing the fiddle un-muted.
/Tobias
Beginnig fiddler
Banjoplayer in Oldtime band "Big Hungry Joe" bighungryjoe.com
Twelvefret - Posted - 03/23/2009: 05:31:51
I only use a mute for recording or small groups where the other muscians play so softly that I do not want to drown them out. I use a one of two string Torte mute that sells for $1. Mutes help me blend the other instruments for recording.
chuck
Chuck Naill
chucksmusicpage.blogspot.com/
dlight - Posted - 03/23/2009: 05:44:25
Interesting thread. When I finally started formal lessons in January, after "teaching myself" for three and a half years, during which time I always used a mute when playing at home, the very first thing my teacher did was remove the mute. He said it was essential (not simply "important") that I hear the fullness of the sound I was creating ( or not!) so as to enable me to make necessary adjustments. Frankly, I haven't looked back: the mute is now gathering dust!
dlight (el gustito)
So who''s smarter?? You or the stupid fiddle??
Jonny A - Posted - 03/23/2009: 05:57:41
Tobias,
I am pretty certain, after a similar experience, that both your theories are correct, except that you are producing less volume, not the same. The fiddle does produce some undesirable sounds (squeaks, hair/string noise and other things) that are audible to you, but generally they disappear only a few feet away.
I'd say stay away from using the mute all the time (though it is certainly necessary sometimes). When the time comes to play out, you will be surprised at how little sound your seemingly loud fiddle generates, particularly compared to a banjo or accordion, and then the trouble will be getting more volume.
Which leads to my last point, which is that the solution to the problem lies in the signal/noise ratio. The more volume you can produce, the larger that ratio, the more pleasing fiddle tone you produce in proportion to those uncomfortable sounds.
Also, as your technique improves, and I think the road to this solution lies primarily in being loose, you will learn to produce fewer unpleasant noises naturally. Playing with a mute artificially reduces them, so you are in fact losing some time in making progress on that front. It's the fiddle equivalent of putting electrical tape over a warning light on your car's dashboard. It may relieve your mind, but the problem is still there.
Just my $0.02.
Jonny
quote:
Originally posted by Tobias
I have noticed that my playing tends to be better when I play with a mute (or some clothes pins) on my fiddle. Almost everything tends to be better. Tone, smothness etc. I am guessing there could be at least 2 reasons. Either my playing is exactly the same and the mute just removes all scratchy sounds and effects of shaky bowing or (the one I'm hoping ,-) the reduced volume makes me less intimidated by having a loud fiddle right next to my ear and "play like I mean it".
I live in a small apartment and is a bit timid when I play.
Has anyone experienced this?
It's very tempting to play with a mute (clothepins) all the time, but I'm afraid that I'll get used to it, and won't be able to get a feel for playing the fiddle un-muted.
/Tobias
Beginnig fiddler
Banjoplayer in Oldtime band "Big Hungry Joe" bighungryjoe.com
Tobias - Posted - 03/23/2009: 06:28:35
quote:
Originally posted by Jonny A
Tobias,
I am pretty certain, after a similar experience, that both your theories are correct, except that you are producing less volume, not the same. The fiddle does produce some undesirable sounds (squeaks, hair/string noise and other things) that are audible to you, but generally they disappear only a few feet away.
I'd say stay away from using the mute all the time (though it is certainly necessary sometimes). When the time comes to play out, you will be surprised at how little sound your seemingly loud fiddle generates, particularly compared to a banjo or accordion, and then the trouble will be getting more volume.
Which leads to my last point, which is that the solution to the problem lies in the signal/noise ratio. The more volume you can produce, the larger that ratio, the more pleasing fiddle tone you produce in proportion to those uncomfortable sounds.
Also, as your technique improves, and I think the road to this solution lies primarily in being loose, you will learn to produce fewer unpleasant noises naturally. Playing with a mute artificially reduces them, so you are in fact losing some time in making progress on that front. It's the fiddle equivalent of putting electrical tape over a warning light on your car's dashboard. It may relieve your mind, but the problem is still there.
Just my $0.02.
Jonny
I have thought about this as well. Sometimes I have recorded my playing so I can hear what it sounds like when my ear isn't right by the fiddle. And the the small sounds like the sound of hair on strings isn't really audible.
I am thinking there might be some psychological aspect to the problem?
That I sometimes get nervous when playing at home without a mute. That the seemed loudness of the fiddle makes me hold myself back and then play with less confidence and maybe stiffen up a bit.
When I am playing with others I notice my playing is kind of like when I play with a mute. Probably because I am not the only one making a racket
I think I'll give the Torte mute a try as a compromise when I feel a mute is necessary.
/tobias
Beginnig fiddler
Banjoplayer in Oldtime band "Big Hungry Joe"
bighungryjoe.com
tiquose - Posted - 03/23/2009: 06:59:09
Tobias, I completely understand the nervousness over playing without a mute. I went through that phase, too. The trouble is, you're already a musician and know very well that you're not getting the quality that you want. You'll get over this as your bow control, tone and intonation improve.
Janet
"Curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought it back." -my grandmother, Bertha Morgan Nelson
Dick Hauser - Posted - 03/23/2009: 09:23:52
When I started playing fiddle again, my instructor had me play without a mute, so I haven't had to deal with that problem. From what I have read, the mute reduces the higher pitched sounds. I understand that a large buildup of rosin will accomplish the same thing. NOTE - I am not recommending that you have a rosin buildup on your fiddle !
Using a mute might improve your confidence, so your playing might sound better. If I were you though, I would practice without the mute - whenever feasible. Muting the fiddle reduces your instruments ability to produce superior tone. Nothing wrong with using the mute to reduce volume but I don't think you should use it as a "crutch". If you are sounding bad, find out what is wrong and correct it. The longer you wait to do this the more difficult the problem is to correct.
gulfguy
bj - Posted - 03/23/2009: 10:06:33
Tobias, I also live in a city dwelling with very close neighbors. And I didn't want to become dependent on playing with a mute, since, as you've already noticed, it'll hold you back from achieving some things you want to achieve.
I took a different route to neighborly bliss. I asked my neighbors their work schedules, and, as much as is possible, I schedule my bigger blocks of practice time for when they're not around. They were grateful I asked, as you can well understand! The practice time I have when they're not around is when I let loose without a mute. I also took some pains in my dwelling to lessen the sound through acoustic muffling. I did this by hanging decorative rugs and tapestries on the walls of the room I practice in, and putting a thick decorative area rug over the wall to wall carpeting, and adding thick drapes to all the windows, which all look great AND muffle the noise somewhat by dampening any reverb.
You can also teach yourself to play at low volume, which has more to do with bow speed and bow control than it does with anything else. And this is an incredibly valuable lesson.
Good luck!
^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^
So many tunes. So little time!
Me on the Web --
doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
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Peghead - Posted - 03/23/2009: 10:55:44
Tobias,
Trying to hold back and play softly (without the mute) is not a good practice in the beginning. Just the opposite - you should be trying to extract as much sound as possible to get the necessary feedback to make corrections, (whenever possible). Unfortunitely, like with a saxaphone you need to learn to produce the full sound to get better and it can be noisy. However, if you are self concious about the volume or if others are around, the mute is probably freeing you up to play with a little more abandon which is good, but only up to a point. Keep in mind, the mute also blocks many of the overtones and harmonics you will eventually need to hear for good tone and intonation. If you take the mute on and off you'll notice the need to adjust your intonation slightly, maybe because of the missing overtones or just the added mass on the bridge, but there is a difference. I used the mute alot in the beginning, and still do occassionally. Now when I need to dig into something new or difficult, like some nasty double stops, I wait untill the house is empty then I can have my own acoustic blueberry pie eating contest and my family isn't bothered. The dog continues to love me no matter what . Good luck Greg
Edited by - Peghead on 03/23/2009 10:59:42
fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/23/2009: 13:26:56
Well, I seldom use a mute, but I found out a couple of years ago that I play better with <an earplug" and it may be for a similar reason.
The left ear is SO CLOSE to the top, and most fiddles produce enough treble that it is overwhelming, and the tendency is to play too softly and gently to compensate.
Wearing an earplug in the left ear, a mute, or using a softer fiddle could all have the same effect of allowing you to play with more confidence and a little more aggressively.
This is all the more true of Old Time I think, since the bowing needs to be a little aggressive to get the driving rhythm.
So I recommend you continue with the mute at home, but try an earplug in the left ear at jams. You have to get used to keeping the right ear facing the people in the jam you want or need to hear. If the earplug seals tightly, be sure to remove it slowly with a twisting motion.
Michael- Old Time 90% of the time! 
"It''s hard to take yourself seriously when you''re singing about chickens!"
ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088
for mp3s, blog, and "Michael''s Old Time Fiddle & Banjo Hour" (hifi & lofi audio streams)
Fiddlepiper - Posted - 03/23/2009: 14:07:44
Tobias, if you like playing with a mute....the symphony is for you! You need to hear the full sound of your fiddle. Mute ok for practicing softly, otherwise open up and hear yourself...hear your fiddle....let others hear you!
bosco - Posted - 03/23/2009: 17:28:14
Tobias,
Don't be afraid to mute. Many clawhammer banjo players stuff old socks or plastic bag (new fashion) their banjos inside the pot to get the sound they want. Some even duct tapes on their bridges. Why not fiddlers.
Someone gave you real good advice. Let the rosin build up on!
Bosco
Konnichiwa, arigato, sayonara
Gabriel - Posted - 03/23/2009: 17:28:42
Its funny, I went through the same experience about a year or so ago , I'd keep my fiddle muted at all times and couldn't stand the sound of it unmuted because it seemed to magnify my mistakes and shakiness, then at a jam another fiddler advised me to take the thing off because he couldn't hear me properly and anyway I should just let it all hang out , it took me about a week to get used to the unmuted sound but I haven't looked back and I think my sense of touch on the bow has steadily improved since then. The problem of practicing in an apartment is a consideration, I now live in a place where i can a make as much noise as I want to but the first year I took up the fiddle I was living in an apartment and even with the mute I think the neighbors got more than enough of it.... I remember once becoming obsessed by the B part of Old Bunch of Keys and playing it over and over again for maybe a couple of hours (maybe not I lost track of time) until I heard the thump of a broom coming up through the floor ... ran into the neighbor the next day and he said that it sounded like I needed to get that part right but he didn't want to hear it again for a while....
Dick Hauser - Posted - 03/23/2009: 19:44:28
This is in regard to Fiddlepogo's remark about using an earplug. I have seen comments by fiddlers/violinist recommending that players do this for medical reasons. Young and middle aged players should use the earplug to reduce the musical frequencies. Over time, these frequencies can reduce your ability to hear sounds accurately. I know that if I were younger, I would ALWAYS use an earplug when I practiced.
gulfguy
JCB - Posted - 03/23/2009: 19:49:02
Tobias
One thing I have found helpful to get fiddle out your ear was play it while holding against the chest. It was a bit awkward at first I found, for me, I could hear the fiddle better.
JCB
oldtimer - Posted - 03/23/2009: 20:39:38
quote:
Originally posted by bosco
Tobias,
Don't be afraid to mute. Many clawhammer banjo players stuff old socks or plastic bag (new fashion) their banjos inside the pot to get the sound they want. Some even duct tapes on their bridges. Why not fiddlers.
Someone gave you real good advice. Let the rosin build up on!
Good advice, as usual, from Bosco. 50 years ago, almost every fiddler I knew used a mute, usually a Sihon wire mute, set 1/4" to 1/8' behind the bridge. Some used other devices such as paper clips, and later, alligator clips. My favorite of the old mute methods was gluing a penny to the fiddle top. They used to use rubber cement...later, a better way came along..."blu-tak" poster stickum. This method allows a lot of experimentation and a wide array of tonal qualities, but it has died out because of fiddlers using expensive fiddles. If you use the penny method,
be very, very careful pressing it to the fiddle top...it is easy to crack it close to a soundhole.
I remember being backstage at a big money fiddle contest in the 70's with a lot of famous names and I noticed that almost all of them played the contest with a Sihon mute close to the bridge. "Ace" Sewell swore by a Sihon viola mute and I agree that it is better. The Sihon can be slid back or removed when you need more volume (outdoor jams).
A mute doesn't just make a fiddle less harsh; it also INCREASES the response. I noticed that Hilary Hahn, one of the greatest living violin soloists, used a Sihon wire mute for the Korngold Concerto.
And, like Bosco said, let the rosin accumulate! There was a reason why all of the old fiddlers did that, and it wasn't for re-use of the rosin.
stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey
"Time passes unhindered"
oldtimer - Posted - 03/23/2009: 20:45:33
Oops, I forgot to mention the "rolled dollar bill mute". Roll up a bill and weave it between the strings just behind and touching the bridge. This is an old trick of recording artists, both fiddlers and violinists. My fiddles are too loud for most recording situations without a little muting.
stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey
"Time passes unhindered"
JCB - Posted - 03/24/2009: 04:34:23
Just tried the dollar bill mute. I like the idea of being able to slide away it from the bridge to be louder like the other mute you show. I've tried to use one of those but for some reason can't figure out how to put the dang thing on. Thanks Oldtimer for the tip.
JCB
Percy - Posted - 03/24/2009: 05:06:45
I think I experience the same thing -- when I'm playing my electric fiddle with headphones. It's like I'm totally free to just play like crazy. I relax and play as if nobody but me can hear it! It's crazy. A lot of times, I'm playing in the house by myself, and nobody CAN hear it... but I'm aware that it's "out loud," and that makes me want to play everything perfectly... which of course is impossible as I've only been playing about 18 months... But put those headphones on, and I can pretend I'm playing at Carnegie Hall -- and that I'm a great fiddler... all the inhibitions disappear!
That might be what's happening with your mute!
Tobias - Posted - 03/24/2009: 05:41:20
quote:
Originally posted by Percy
I think I experience the same thing -- when I'm playing my electric fiddle with headphones. It's like I'm totally free to just play like crazy. I relax and play as if nobody but me can hear it! It's crazy. A lot of times, I'm playing in the house by myself, and nobody CAN hear it... but I'm aware that it's "out loud," and that makes me want to play everything perfectly... which of course is impossible as I've only been playing about 18 months... But put those headphones on, and I can pretend I'm playing at Carnegie Hall -- and that I'm a great fiddler... all the inhibitions disappear!
That might be what's happening with your mute!
It think thats alot of what I mean. I have considered an electric fiddle as well, so I can just fell free.
Thanks everyone for the insight.
Bosco:
I thought about that too. I have a sock stuffed in my banjo, because I prefer it a little less "ringy". So why shouldn't small adjustments like that be done on the fiddle. I think i'll try to avoid the regular mute though ( it mutes to much )
and try some of the other suggestions. I really like my fiddle. It's clear and loud and with a fast response. But it can be a bit too loud (and harsh) at home. I have tried some other peoples fiddles that have a more mellow tone, and I like that alot. So maybe some of the small contraptions mentioned here can "calm it down" a bit. Maybe I should try the dollar-bill trick, although it would have to be a Danish 50 Kroner bill.
/Tobias
Beginnig fiddler
Banjoplayer in Oldtime band "Big Hungry Joe"
bighungryjoe.com
SMDTMTL - Posted - 03/24/2009: 06:28:26
People carve their bridges, or move their soundposts all the time to alter, for the better, the tone of the instrument.This is not a moral decision. If it sounds good to you, it will be easier to play and feel relaxed while doing so. Playing with a group will be different. Good to spend some time without it as well... How about using your mute sometimes, and not using it sometimes....
I have a fiddle that I love but that just a little too bright for my taste. Those cheap expanding earplugs that Fiddlepogo is talking about can be used in another way... On my very bright fiddle these very minimally take the edge off...
Steve
Tobias - Posted - 03/24/2009: 06:45:01
I just noticed, that it tends to be when I'm playing in AEAE tuning that I like to use the mute. Those tight bass-strings (mainly the D (tuned to E) string) start sounding more harsh....and it might just be me, but the whole fiddle sounds "tighter" in a way.!?
In standard or ADAE tuning I rarely feel a need to put on the mute....and I absolutely love the sound of my fiddle (unmuted) in DDAD tuning, but it's a pain to retune for that one, when I hardly know any tunes in that tuning ;-)
/Tobias
Beginnig fiddler
Banjoplayer in Oldtime band "Big Hungry Joe" bighungryjoe.com
vajrabum - Posted - 03/24/2009: 15:22:34
I'm pretty much a beginner myself (2 years) and I have an apartment with paper thin walls so I got into the habit of using a metal practice mute. It's great for reducing sound but over time I've found that playing with it too often screws up my intonation.
Good intonation on the fiddle is at least partly about hearing the greater resonance when you match pitches to an open string at least in the fiddle keys. With a mute on you can't hear that extra resonance well at all.
Some muting is probably fine but be careful about making your fiddle too completely dead or your ear is likely to get that way too. :)
Cheers, John
fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/25/2009: 00:55:07
quote:
Originally posted by Tobias
I just noticed, that it tends to be when I'm playing in AEAE tuning that I like to use the mute. Those tight bass-strings (mainly the D (tuned to E) string) start sounding more harsh....and it might just be me, but the whole fiddle sounds "tighter" in a way.!?
In standard or ADAE tuning I rarely feel a need to put on the mute....and I absolutely love the sound of my fiddle (unmuted) in DDAD tuning, but it's a pain to retune for that one, when I hardly know any tunes in that tuning ;-)
/Tobias
Beginnig fiddler
Banjoplayer in Oldtime band "Big Hungry Joe" bighungryjoe.com
I recognize the description of that sound!
I use Thomastik Precision (Präzision) strings, and have for most of my fiddling experience. I used to use mediums (mittel), and when I would tune AEAE, the low strings would sound like that. Now that I've switched to light gauge (weich)
the low strings don't sound harsh when I tune them up.
So you might try a lighter gauge string, especially for the G and D.
Michael- Old Time 90% of the time!
"It''s hard to take yourself seriously when you''re singing about chickens!"
ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088for mp3s, blog, and "Michael''s Old Time Fiddle & Banjo Hour" (hifi & lofi audio streams)
bazzer - Posted - 02/19/2010: 16:13:56
micheal.. I like the sound of your playing on the ezfolk it's brill. my wife thinks the earplugs is a good idea ..She's buying two of them!!!!
bazzer - Posted - 02/20/2010: 02:22:20
(i should have said for my playing)
AndyPollow - Posted - 02/20/2010: 13:13:17
Me too - I think its mostly playing in an apartment especially learning something new your technique is too timid and weak because your not free to do it loud. I cant sing as good either if I try to be quiet. And the mute makes me more aggressive and natural with the bow. I got a little mute that attaches to the A and D and you can slide it back to the tailpiece for full volume.
fiddlemailman - Posted - 02/20/2010: 14:53:47
quote:
Originally posted by fiddlepogo
Well, I seldom use a mute, but I found out a couple of years ago that I play better with <an earplug" and it may be for a similar reason.
The left ear is SO CLOSE to the top, and most fiddles produce enough treble that it is overwhelming, and the tendency is to play too softly and gently to compensate.
Wearing an earplug in the left ear, a mute, or using a softer fiddle could all have the same effect of allowing you to play with more confidence and a little more aggressively.
This is all the more true of Old Time I think, since the bowing needs to be a little aggressive to get the driving rhythm.
So I recommend you continue with the mute at home, but try an earplug in the left ear at jams. You have to get used to keeping the right ear facing the people in the jam you want or need to hear. If the earplug seals tightly, be sure to remove it slowly with a twisting motion.
Michael- Old Time 90% of the time!
"It''s hard to take yourself seriously when you''re singing about chickens!"
ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088
for mp3s, blog, and "Michael''s Old Time Fiddle & Banjo Hour" (hifi & lofi audio streams)
fiddlemailman - Posted - 02/20/2010: 15:07:47
I've felt the same about my fiddle. It's loud against my ear. I've used a mute but feel I play better without. I'm going to try an earplug. It only makes sense.
Greg
quote:
Originally posted by fiddlepogo
Well, I seldom use a mute, but I found out a couple of years ago that I play better with <an earplug" and it may be for a similar reason.
The left ear is SO CLOSE to the top, and most fiddles produce enough treble that it is overwhelming, and the tendency is to play too softly and gently to compensate.
Wearing an earplug in the left ear, a mute, or using a softer fiddle could all have the same effect of allowing you to play with more confidence and a little more aggressively.
This is all the more true of Old Time I think, since the bowing needs to be a little aggressive to get the driving rhythm.
So I recommend you continue with the mute at home, but try an earplug in the left ear at jams. You have to get used to keeping the right ear facing the people in the jam you want or need to hear. If the earplug seals tightly, be sure to remove it slowly with a twisting motion.
Michael- Old Time 90% of the time!
"It''s hard to take yourself seriously when you''re singing about chickens!"
ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088
for mp3s, blog, and "Michael''s Old Time Fiddle & Banjo Hour" (hifi & lofi audio streams)
Penel - Posted - 02/20/2010: 16:21:29
I've found that in large large jams with lots of fiddles I can hear my own fiddle easier if I'm using a mute. I guess that's because the quality of its tone is different than all the fiddles without a mute?
noonie - Posted - 03/02/2010: 15:03:27
Not really addressing the poster's problem, but I made an interesting observation.
I bought a cheap Palatino fiddle years ago, like in 2001-2. I have never changed the strings on it. Lately I've pulled it out to dabble for the first time since our move a couple of years ago, and I am *certain* those strings are dead. Harsh and shrill, is the best way to describe it. Absolutely no ring or resonance to them once the bow leaves the string. However, I dug out and tried my mute I had purchased several years ago, and it actually made the sound of my fiddle tolerable! The A string has harmonic noises with it, but the other strings actually sound warmer and have more sustain when the bow leaves the string. I would have expected dead strings to sound worse with the mute, but that is not the case. My bridge is also tilted ever so slightly forward on this thing, so I am thinking my Palatino has more going against it than a dire need for a string change.
I will have to break down and buy some new strings, and see what happens.
cabinetfiddle - Posted - 03/02/2010: 17:58:07
I can't really add much.. but a relative side note: I recently changed pickups from a clamp-on style (clamps on to the side of the bridge) to a "Realist" (which the bridge feet sit on), and realized that my pickup had been acting like a mute all along... I knew that it had a certain amount of muting affect, but I've since been going through a similar re-acclimation as those taking off the mute. ...only I've been playing through an amp.
fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/02/2010: 20:27:31
I'm using oldtimers dollar bill mute on my fiddles almost continually- well, I just tried it on the new fiddle today and even liked it on that- whether steel or sythetic strings, it takes down the volume and the treble bite JUST ENOUGH so it's practically perfect!
I think I roll the bill a bit wider than oldtimer, I fold it actually.
Tobias - Posted - 03/08/2010: 14:22:07
Not having a one dollar bill around (being in Denmark and all) I have used a piece of paper the same size, ever since Oldtimer brought it up. Been just what I was looking for. Playing on my chest and away from my ear once in a while is nice too.
Here I do both: youtube.com/watch?v=v_M1lsHZf9A
/tobias
mswlogo - Posted - 03/08/2010: 14:56:29
I had posted in another thread my experience with "waking up" a dormant fiddle.
I was playing it pretty hard for a few days to try and wake it up..
Well I decided to try pushing anything I had hit a wall on (Fast shuffling, Fast Rocking, Leading Wrist etc.)
So I tried a much more relaxed grip in order to lead with my wrist. On my prior fiddle, the bow would wander so much it was ugly and aweful sounding.
Then on the new still "muted" dormant fiddle I tried it. BINGO nice leading wrist and bow stayed right on the highway (same strings and bow on both fiddles).
Went back to the old fiddle and it wandered and sounded aweful again.
I believe the reason was that the old fiddle is not dormant and pretty bold sounding that everything resonates so much the bow skated over the strings (it took more control I didn't have with a lose grip).
The more mellow (and still dormant one) didn't resonate so much and the bow stayed put.
So I now wonder if a mute would have accomplished the same thing and I highly suspect it would have.
Now that the new fiddle has opened up I can still keep the bow on track but it is a bit harder. But I got lots of practice in of getting the feel of it while it was dormant.
So if your trying any new technique that causes the bow to wander I would try a mute to see that helps keep the bow tame until you get the technique down.
Edited by - mswlogo on 03/08/2010 14:57:31
oldtimer - Posted - 03/08/2010: 17:18:58
Tobius, I have been watching your video of Jenny Ran Away in the Mud in the Night. Your fiddle sounds wonderful...the tone and quality is exactly what I like. I noticed you are using the "dollar bill mute". It works great on your fiddle.
You and I both like to play with as many double stops and drones as possible. Usually fiddlers with our preference like mellow fiddles so that the double stops blend to our ear. Brighter loud fiddles don't get that blend. Bright fiddles are OK for single line fiddlers, but I have never been one of those.
That's the reason the fiddlers I knew decades ago nearly all used some sort of mute...it was to get that blend.
Great fiddling, by the way!
stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey
mswlogo - Posted - 03/08/2010: 18:20:08
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
You and I both like to play with as many double stops and drones as possible. Usually fiddlers with our preference like mellow fiddles so that the double stops blend to our ear. Brighter loud fiddles don't get that blend. Bright fiddles are OK for single line fiddlers, but I have never been one of those.
I was wondering this very thing. I had been put off doing drone work on my old bright loud fiddle because it just never sounded right (didn't blend). My new fiddle is more mellow and the little drone work I've tried is sounding promising. I have lot of catching up to do on drones and double stops because I had put it on the back burner thinking I just wasn't ready for it. Thanks for confiirming what I had suspected.
Tobias - Posted - 03/10/2010: 02:25:16
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Tobius, I have been watching your video of Jenny Ran Away in the Mud in the Night. Your fiddle sounds wonderful...the tone and quality is exactly what I like. I noticed you are using the "dollar bill mute". It works great on your fiddle.
You and I both like to play with as many double stops and drones as possible. Usually fiddlers with our preference like mellow fiddles so that the double stops blend to our ear. Brighter loud fiddles don't get that blend. Bright fiddles are OK for single line fiddlers, but I have never been one of those.
That's the reason the fiddlers I knew decades ago nearly all used some sort of mute...it was to get that blend.
Great fiddling, by the way!
stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey
Thanks Glenn :-)
I have been tuning my fiddle low for a while. GDGD istead of AEAE. My fiddle just sounds better that way. I have played someone elses fiddle that sounded so nice and soft and mellow tuned to AEAE. I don't know where to find such an instrument :-)
It's funny you mention double stops. Since I started playing fiddle I have been playing 2 strings at once. I knew that oldtime fidde was what I really wanted to learn, and the person who introduced me to it started me out in cross tuning and playing two strings at once. I have only recently been playing tunes in standard tuning.
Tobias
fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/10/2010: 13:39:08
Tobias-
The difference you are hearing and/or feeling may be PARTLY due to string tension.
Gauges are not consistent between manufacturers, and some so called medium strings feel
like light gauge to me (D'Addario Preludes) and others feel like very heavy gauge (Thomastik Precision Mediums aka Präzision Mittel)
I would NOT try AEAE with Thomastik Precision Mediums EVER AGAIN!!!
I would consider doing it with Prim Mediums, which don't feel that heavy... they actually do feel "medium"!!!
Anyway, consider a lighter gauge string for tuning AEAE.
Another possibility- if you can get your bandmates to cooperate-
AbEbAbEb!!!!
Since the oldtimers tuned as much by feel as anything else, and A flat is halfway between GDGD which feels too rubber bandy on the high strings, and AEAE sometimes feels like bicycle spokes on the low strings,
AbEbAbEb is the perfect compromise, and I think it's about where people often ended up when tuning by feel.
Banjos and guitars, capo 1st fret and play in G.
Harmonica might be a sticky wicket-
are there Ab harmonicas???
And mandolin players would HATE you!!!!
fresiatap - Posted - 03/11/2010: 07:19:49
People carve their bridges, or move their soundposts all the time to alter, for the better, the tone of the instrument.
What should one know about carving bridges? Carving what makes what kind of tone change? I am thinking of having this done. Does it effect the action of the strings? Anything else? Thanks!
fresiatap - Posted - 03/11/2010: 07:29:43
Very enjoyable tune on Youtube tobias! Recorded at just the right level and the banjo player and instrument also sounded fantastic!
fiddlepogo - Posted - 03/17/2010: 00:26:58
quote:
Originally posted by Dick Hauser
This is in regard to Fiddlepogo's remark about using an earplug. I have seen comments by fiddlers/violinist recommending that players do this for medical reasons. Young and middle aged players should use the earplug to reduce the musical frequencies. Over time, these frequencies can reduce your ability to hear sounds accurately. I know that if I were younger, I would ALWAYS use an earplug when I practiced.
gulfguy
Dick,
I actually started using the earplug for medical reasons (tinnitus)
but was delighted when it improved my fiddling as well!!
I'm sure it's the same phenomenon Tobias is experiencing with a mute.
If a fiddle sounds loud and harsh, the temptation is to bow more gingerly.
Bowing more gingerly is the opposite of bowing with confidence, which gives you the best tone.... at least when the confidence is mixed with a little gentleness!!!
If the fiddle sounds harsh under the ear, this can lead to a vicious circle-
you bow too delicately, the tone gets worse, so you bow more delicately, and the tone gets worse, etc.
The mute in Tobias case, and the earplug in my case break that vicious circle,
and allow you to bow more naturally.
Caveat:
I find that mutes that either clamp low on the bridge or that push gently up to the bridge cause the fiddle to respond in a normal, natural way.
Mutes that clamp to the top of the bridge seem to restrict the movement of the bridge so much that they even change the way the strings respond to the bow.
And that could lead to bad habits.
Rodney Mc75 - Posted - 03/19/2010: 09:18:25
I've had similar experianced with the majority of you. I've played for years using only a mute on it, not the one that fits over the bridge but the on that is a wire with A little rubber on it, like the pic in an earlier post. I never could get used to the loudness and sound of it. Then I recorded with some people one day and my fiddle really sounded muffled. I took it off and it sounded so much better. The bad thing is, I had to take a step back on learning because without the mute, my small mistakes became big ones. You could hear the littlest of tonal problems. It's something that I still have to work on.
So I do not recommend use the mute at all starting out. It will effect your playing in the long run. And when you get good enough, then start using it only when it's a must. The fiddle should be sounded out. Your actually holding the true sound of your fiddle back.
jbquicky - Posted - 03/20/2010: 07:33:06
To mute or not to mute, that is the question. For my own personal enjoyment, at times I will use a heavy practice mute, or a combination of up to three Tourte style mutes. If I'm playing inside where I have the reverberations of four wall bearing down on me, I will use the heavy practice mute. Out on the porch or balcony, maybe two or three Tourtes, However out in the wide open spaces (which I often do, weather permitting) it's either one tourte or if I really want to let it loose, it's none. I also notice a mute does lighten up on the scratchies a tad.
clawhammerer - Posted - 03/20/2010: 09:31:49
"Bowing more gingerly is the opposite of bowing with confidence, which gives you the best tone.... at least when the confidence is mixed with a little gentleness!!!
If the fiddle sounds harsh under the ear, this can lead to a vicious circle-
you bow too delicately, the tone gets worse, so you bow more delicately, and the tone gets worse, etc.
The mute in Tobias case, and the earplug in my case break that vicious circle,
and allow you to bow more naturally."
*****************
I experienced the same thing when I started using a mute. My bowing was smoother and more confident. Rather than fight it I tried to use the mute to increase my ability without it.
After playing several practice sessions with a mute my playing without a mute would sound pretty good, but then would decline. I would return to the mute for a boost of confidence and to hear how it sounded and how it felt when I bowed, then I'd remove the mute and play until my bowing fell apart again. The time between using the mute gradually increased until I was comfortable with not ever using the mute.
imforhim - Posted - 03/20/2010: 09:42:35
Nice idea for using a dollar bill as a mute. Very inexpensive also; nowadays it only costs 63 cents to use a
dollar for a mute...............
