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leroyleroux - Posted - 03/16/2009: 18:04:14
I have been a SD fiddler for quite a few years now. When I was a kid (and some as an adult), a recording outfit would be at the contest, and everyone was encouraged to record a few songs. These were then filted, and made into records (later tapes). We were never paid, but they did sell the recordings. Do you think there would be any legal problem posting them somewhere here...or maybe a link on my homepage? There are some real gems on these.
bj - Posted - 03/16/2009: 18:31:33
Are they copyrighted tunes? or are they out of copyright? Or did you sign the copyright away when they recorded you? I think those are the questions you have to get answered before you post 'em.
^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^
So many tunes. So little time!
Me on the Web --
http://doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh14633812588807237
leroyleroux - Posted - 03/16/2009: 18:35:44
I'd say the vast majority are un copyrighted. Mostly your traditional fiddle tunes. And we signed nothing, it was just 'Hey, you gonna record some songs this year?' I guess the best way to describe, is that I'm working on one by Pete MacMahan. It is called 'Johnny Don't Come Home Drunk'. I have a cd of him, and songs from that I wouldn't post. However, that isn't one of his songs. Maybe there is a better way to go about this, but I hope that this music can be shared, because I know of the interest level here.
BanjoBrad - Posted - 03/16/2009: 18:39:43
Copyright Notice:
The Fiddle Hangout myHangout MP3 archives were created to allow musicians to post recordings which 1) they own the copyrights to, or 2) recordings which are non-copyrighted. Please respect other musicians and do not post their copyrighted music. MP3s posted in violation of this notice may be removed by the webmaster without prior notice, and may result in a locking of your myHangout account.
As long as you hold the copyright, or have permission from the copyright holder, or the recordings are non-copyrighted, you may post them to your music files on your homepage.
If you're unsure of the copyright status, I'd suggest that you can put them up somewhere (not on the hangout) and link to them from your homepage or the "Sound Off" forum.
And remember, it may not be just the recording that is copyrighted. If the song/tune was written after 1923, it is still under copyright by the author. If you are posting either a published tune, or a recording of that tune as written, that could be considered a violation of copyright.
So much to think about, the whole can of worms has extended over thousands of posts on the Hangouts, List-serves and other Forums!
Forum Rules and Guidelines
FHO FAQ
Brad
"D n A, the keys of life.", Big Jim Griffith
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ezFolk Page
Tucson Old Time Music Circle Home Page
Edited by - BanjoBrad on 03/16/2009 18:43:59
leroyleroux - Posted - 03/16/2009: 18:44:00
It would appear that they are non copyrighted, as other albums I'm looking at make reference to copyright date, while these do not.
arfive - Posted - 03/16/2009: 21:37:59
This is a interesting question. If the recordings were made before 1923 and you have the original, not a copy that was made after 1923. Then I think you can post them. Sounds like you should put them on your own webpage and not upload the the hangout. Even if all the songs are "traditional" or non copyright material the artist interpretation is copyrighted if made after 1923. This is for the USA only.
If they wanted to be really strict the only songs we would be able to post would be original recordings made before 1923. Or our own interpretation of any material written before 1923. So most of the people who have uploaded music to any of these hangouts would have their music removed and accounts locked. Just think what would happen to YouTube! 
Of course, then there's the "scholarly study" thing. Which alows some recording of copyrighted material for the purposes of learning or studying music. I think the majority of our music posts fall into this catagory.
This is how I understand the copyright law but I'm not an attorney. Maybe someone on here is and can give a better or more accurate answer.
Just Fiddlin'' Around
musekatcher - Posted - 03/16/2009: 22:50:39
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoBrad
Copyright Notice:
The Fiddle Hangout myHangout MP3 archives were created to allow musicians to post recordings which 1) they own the copyrights to, or 2) recordings which are non-copyrighted. Please respect other musicians and do not post their copyrighted music. MP3s posted in violation of this notice may be removed by the webmaster without prior notice, and may result in a locking of your myHangout account.
As long as you hold the copyright, or have permission from the copyright holder, or the recordings are non-copyrighted, you may post them to your music files on your homepage.
If you're unsure of the copyright status, I'd suggest that you can put them up somewhere (not on the hangout) and link to them from your homepage or the "Sound Off" forum.
And remember, it may not be just the recording that is copyrighted. If the song/tune was written after 1923, it is still under copyright by the author. If you are posting either a published tune, or a recording of that tune as written, that could be considered a violation of copyright.
So much to think about, the whole can of worms has extended over thousands of posts on the Hangouts, List-serves and other Forums!
Forum Rules and Guidelines
FHO FAQ
Brad
"D n A, the keys of life.", Big Jim Griffith
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
ezFolk Page
Tucson Old Time Music Circle Home Page
Its my understanding that Public Domain includes any and all material not copyrighted. Modern contests include a waiver in the rules to record and use the performances, and many contests require public domain material only. In practice, the last issue is not enforced, largely due to the limited knowledge of instrumental music by BMI/ASCAP representatives.
Isn't there a clause in our US legalese that provides for usage of even copyrighted material for educational purposes? Performing Shanandoah Breakdown at a pub for drinks and tips would not qualify. Posting of clips on an educational website, as part of lessons or demonstration, or to support analysis and the study of folk art and tradition would qualify.
And finally, if these recordings are 25+ years old, I'd wager most all the tunes are not copyrighted. If you were to post, I imagine the membership could help identify them for you, and help make a determination.
Jim Holland
Athens, AL
leather Britches - Posted - 03/17/2009: 06:35:31
You are not trying to sell these recordings, so posting these would fall under Performance Rights. These are monitored
by BMI or ASCAP. Public venues normally pay fees to these companies and then they pay the artist who own the Copyright.
The fact that these will be heard on the WEB first brings up the question of whether the Fiddle Hangout pays performance
rights ( I don't think the Fiddle Hangout does which is why they have strict rules about posting copyrighted material ) but the Laws
for performance rights or copyrights on the Internet and the WEB will have to be researched.
The best way to answer your question,is to do some research on the U.S. Copyright Office web site
http://www.copyright.gov/ . There is even a search area that has collection and tunes. For example if you search
"Red Haired Boy" Howdy Forrester comes up as the owner of the Copyright.
Good luck, I hope you find that you can post them.
My cat stopped yelling that must be a good sign right ?
musekatcher - Posted - 03/17/2009: 14:47:21
quote:
Originally posted by bj
quote:
And finally, if these recordings are 25+ years old, I'd wager most all the tunes are not copyrighted.
You'd lose that wager. Blame it on the Mouse.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...C0A9659C8B63
^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^
So many tunes. So little time!
Me on the Web --
http://doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh14633812588807237
I mean, 25+ years ago, contestants were still using primarily public domain tunes at contests. But, samplings since then would be much more likely to include composed and copyrighted pieces.
Jim Holland
Athens, AL
musekatcher - Posted - 03/17/2009: 15:04:17
quote:
Originally posted by leather Britches
You are not trying to sell these recordings, so posting these would fall under Performance Rights. These are monitored
by BMI or ASCAP.
Can a BMI or ASCAP agent identify a single fiddle tune, without help? Heck, our guitar players can't even do that, after years of playing the same tunes.....
Jim Holland
Athens, AL
leroyleroux - Posted - 03/17/2009: 18:41:39
Awesome musekatcher. 
leather Britches - Posted - 03/18/2009: 06:47:35
quote:
Originally posted by musekatcher
quote:
Originally posted by leather Britches
You are not trying to sell these recordings, so posting these would fall under Performance Rights. These are monitored
by BMI or ASCAP.
Can a BMI or ASCAP agent identify a single fiddle tune, without help? Heck, our guitar players can't even do that, after years of playing the same tunes.....
Jim Holland
Athens, AL
Jim, that would be an amazing feat
The fees paid to Performance Rights Organizations by Public Venues are based on a formula they used.
How they determine this is beyond me, but if a song is Copyrighted it only protects the author from others using that song to sell.
Performance Rights Organizations track songs being played in public. I would imagine they focus most of their attention on POP songs. This is the reason why some companies pipe through Muzak it is cheeper and less red tape then paying performance rights. Radio Station already pay this, so we can listen.
So unless the recordings that Leroyleroux has are Copyrighted as a collection or as individual tunes, and registered with a performance rights organization. I would say they are okay to post, however I would do the research first to make sure.
My cat stopped yelling that must be a good sign right ?
RobBob - Posted - 03/18/2009: 07:38:40
If you look, BMI has fiddle tune arrangements copyrighted. All it takes is a note or two difference to make it another arrangement. Heck I can't play the tunes the same once!
RobBob
Music; the best way to count time.
www.blueridgerounders.com
Eric Sprado - Posted - 03/18/2009: 12:16:25
Post them!!!! "Shoot first then go to town to get the law on your side"
What is an "SD Fiddler"?
leroyleroux - Posted - 03/20/2009: 06:17:27
South Dakota. It's a state.
