zai - Posted - 01/17/2009:  11:56:13

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SMDTMTL's avatar and some mail correspondence back and forth inspired me to trying out this new way of holding the fiddle. I really like how it works. Stretchy strap (one leg off a pair of nylon stockings) attached to tailgut one one end and at the heel of the neck, going under the fingerboard. There's no doubt loads more people who do something like this, but anyway, it's what's on my mind as for the mechanics of playing right now. Nice new perspective.

Thanks for the inspiration Steve!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ8qdYfwZ7g

No more violence, more violins!!!

peerke112 - Posted - 01/17/2009:  12:01:39

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Looks funny.....but don't you miss the vibrations in your chin and collarbone?

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zai - Posted - 01/17/2009:  13:22:35

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Not really, the vibrations I pick up with my chest more then make up for that. Oh and really, fiddle sounds so different a little bit further from the ear. Sounds pretty much the same when recorded, down there or under the chin, but when playing it's a big difference.

Might look funny, feels comfy and is a fun experience. Nice to be able to switch back and forth :D

Give it a go, just don't strangle yourselves with your fiddles ;)

No more violence, more violins!!!

SMDTMTL - Posted - 01/17/2009:  14:21:09

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Well gee, I play a lot of different instruments and have never felt even the slightest need for, or inclination to feel their vibrations through my chin and collarbone. I realize that that is something fiddle/violin players sometimes mention as being helpful, but at least
a substantial percentage of old time fiddlers never get their instruments even close to their chins, and they seem to play ok.

People who've been around this forum a while have seen these You-tube videos of mine, but for anyone new who'd like to see my strap in use, by me here's a link to one of the vids. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_r8PgtTt6M

It's been fun comparing notes with Zai, (Inge) about this, and it's possible my method of attaching the strap may be changing due to something she tried with it.
We should all hold the fiddle in the manner in which we can play it the most enjoyably. For me that's away from my ear, and away from my chin.



"Find a million dollars, pick it up
all day long you''ll have good luck." my nephew Chris

zai - Posted - 01/18/2009:  02:46:04

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Over on the other fiddleforum I hang out at this site was linked to a while back, and someone pointed me to it in response to the thread I started over there about this fiddle on a strap hold I'm experimenting with. http://www.happynex.com/

Tried something like that, just having the strap under the tailgut tied in a loop; over the head and under the arm as shown on that site. Didn't find that as comfy as what I came up with, that is on first try. I'll be messing about some more though, I think, maybe just attaching to the tailgut and just hanging it off my neck might work as well. If I come up with something I feel is an improvement I'll let you know.

As for the vibrations, like I said, I feel them anyway, the edge of the backplate and the rests against the sternum so I feel the sound there. As well as in my fingertips when not playing open strings that is, and of course I feel vibrations in the bowhand. Some people are just more aware of these vibrations. Not sure if they're really needed though, also, wouldn't vibrations that are absorbed by the human body subtract from the actual sound output of the fiddle?
I'm imagining (or actually experiencing) the fiddle to be slightly more resonant when I have it on the strap and not up against my neck (when I have it under the chin my chin is not resting on the fiddle really, and only the bit where the endpin is sits against my neck ).

No more violence, more violins!!!

BanjoBrad - Posted - 01/18/2009:  11:01:55

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I fool around with a neck strap from time to time, myself. I've been trying to use it under the lower bout tips, with no connection to the tailpiece or end button. I don't know, the thought of putting stress on the button (maybe causing it to pull out unexpectedly) just doesn't sit well with me.

What I have to figure out is how to get the balance right, so I need more than one point of contact with the fiddle body.



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oldtimer - Posted - 01/18/2009:  11:12:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by zai

SMDTMTL's avatar and some mail correspondence back and forth inspired me to trying out this new way of holding the fiddle. I really like how it works. Stretchy strap (one leg off a pair of nylon stockings) attached to tailgut one one end and at the heel of the neck, going under the fingerboard....

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Nice fiddling and very interesting device! The video is a little dark for me to see details of the "strap" and I don't understand about the route of the strap to the heel of the neck. Can you explain?

BTW, Eck Robertson, the legendary fiddler, tied the fiddle around his neck with a string in his extreme old age.

stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey

"Time passes unhindered"

oldtimer - Posted - 01/18/2009:  11:17:58

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BTW, check out Mark Woods' Viper, " the violin of the future". his strap goes over the left shoulder and under the right armpit. The violin is designed to "cantilever" for a completely effortless and very solid hold:

http://www.woodviolins.com/video/WVpromo1.mov

stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey

"Time passes unhindered"

SMDTMTL - Posted - 01/18/2009:  12:16:21

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Here's some explanation of how my strap is connected, but the photos on my homepage show it pretty clearly. (Inge is doing it a little differently.) My strap is a piece of ribbon something like 14" long, (it used to be an adjustable piece of a camera bag strap,) with a copper wire hook at each end. The little copper hook is about 1/4" in diameter and hooks around the tailgut, just above the endpin, (not on the endpin.) The other end of the strap has a larger copper hook, (about 1" diameter) attached, and this hooks around the upper stem of my shoulder rest. I actually made a custom shoulder rest, (I'm a furniture builder), out of wood and I incorporated a hole at the top for the hook to grab on to. I made this custom shoulder rest because I wanted more angle than I could get out of my KUN rest, and also, I wanted to move that hanging point closer to the neck. (wider apart suspension points make it hang more consistently- It stays at whatever angle you put it at.) The copper hooks are made out of 12 guage electric wire available from any hardware store. Since I've been asked a lot of times about how I made the strap, I took some closeup photos of the whole deal and posted them on my homepage, maybe a year and a half ago. Here's the link to those photos.
http://www.fiddlehangout.com/myhang...s.asp?id=711

Joe LaRose and I have several fiddle-banjo videos on you tube... the video of Melvin Wine's, Walk Chalk Chicken probably affords the best view of the fiddle strap, and in this one you can see that I'm using my homemade shoulder rest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyWCRFvbjgI

Finally, due to some emails back and forth with Inge, I may very well dispense with the top hook and instead make the ribbon a little longer, running it across the top of the fiddle to tie around the heel of the neck, (where the fingerboard is up off the body.) As I said above, the wider apart these suspension points are, the more stable the instrument sits, and running the ribbon across the top keeps it angled back toward the sky, instead of wanting to flop forward into a more vertical angle. I like the angle to stay, as close as possible, to the angle it would sit at if I were holding it under my chin in the conventional way.

Inge, in the last video you made, you were twisting the fiddle around the strap once, to effectively make the fiddle hang from one central hanging point. I tried that very early in my experiments three years ago, and hated it, because I then had to rely on my left hand to not only finger the notes, but also to hold the fiddle in position. As much as possible I want the fiddle to sit where I put it without anything from my left hand aside from the playing. Again, I think this is sort of in keeping with the classical approach where your neck holds the violin in place regardless of what your left hand is doing. To my way of thinking, this frees up the left hand. It's preferable to me.

I now use the regular old KUN shoulder rest on some fiddles and am happy enough with the angle it affords. You'll see in those photos that I don't attach the shoulder rest in the conventional manner.

Hope the photos and videos are helpful to those interested. For me it's an extremely comfortable way to hold the darned thing.
Steve



"Find a million dollars, pick it up
all day long you''ll have good luck." my nephew Chris

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Edited by - SMDTMTL on 01/18/2009 12:22:44