amezcua - Posted - 09/12/2025:  08:29:16

There are very cheap guitar tuner machines that can be fitted on a violin and work reliably .People mention the weight (as a bad thing) near the scroll but do not specify how much weight . The tuners fixed on a tailpiece are heavy too and very close to the bridge but that gets ignored. Well not completely ignored but not criticized much .
One shop site tells us about the weight near the scroll as if it needs a weight lifter to play but he`s got a whacking great watch on the same wrist . Now if he does not mean the weightlifter strength needed he might be talking about Tone or Resonance .So we need to look at the Cremona maker Edgar Russ where he tries a good violin from China and then saws off the wooden scroll to see if less weight makes it sound better. Surprisingly the violin sounds much worse . So far I have not seen an experiment where different weights can be attached to a scroll to see if a perfect scroll weight exists for each violin.
We all know that 4 metal tuners on a tailpiece will spoil the tone.
The weight of 4 single guitar tuners on the my scroll does not seem to have any negative effect on tone. The other side of this topic mentions the difficulty of using wooden pegs . Half of that is the peg itself and the other is the pegbox holes. Plenty is said about Reamers but little is said about peg shavers. Reamers are easy to use if you are careful. They can mess up a violin if you are not careful .
Peg shavers need more skill but you are only going to mess up one peg at a time until you find out how to use them . Most peg shavers shown can be examined carefully by magnifying the blades . They all seem to have a square end where the blade meets the peg . That square corner needs to be rounded to prevent splinters breaking out all round the peg . You need to have very sharp blades too .
It`s safer to correct a peg than to ream out pegboxes .
If a violin is old with outsize peg holes the guitar tuners can be fitted without changing the peg holes. The screws need tiny holes drilled with one mm drill bits. Getting the pegs in position can be tricky . There is not much room either side .The peg angles need to be compared left and right . I fitted thicker Octave strings to get some great cello sounds. The Peghead and Wittner tuners have tiny roller holes and Octaves may not fit them .
Great background peg knowledge and creation is seen on a Lute Peg making site .It`s an education .

ChickenMan - Posted - 09/12/2025:  11:05:15

Weight at the scroll is different than weight at the end button. I can promise you that extra weight at the scroll can definitely be noticed, especially after a couple hours of playing. I have a fiddle with those old school metal tuners and it is quite neck heavy and not my favorite to play for more than 30 minutes.
Guitar tuners. They are heavier than wooden tuning pegs and I'd never drill into my peg box, but if it works, more power to you.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 09/13/2025:  07:03:57

Putting guitar tuners on is a bad idea. It’s been done before and it leaves permanent scars. At one time (in the early 20th century) some companies even made that style of tuner specifically for violins, but they never worked well enough and they did much damage to structure and value.



One of the biggest problems is that the tuners, whether individual or connected by plates, must be attached to the pegbox via screws. If the tuners are removed, then there are hideous scars left behind. If they’re not removed, the threads cut into the wood by the screws may crumble, making the screws loose and causing rattling. Then the holes either have to be filled in and recut (this doesn’t go well often) or different tuners must be installed, adding a new set of holes to the pegbox.



There’s also the ergonomic aspect of it—guitar tuners end up pointing down toward the floor rather than being on the sides of the pegbox where they fit into the hand conveniently. It’s more awkward tuning with guitar tuners, and many users end up putting the violin on a knee to tune.



The weight difference between most modern mechanical pegs and a traditional set of pegs is not great enough to make a substantial difference most of the time, but the old guitar-style tuners are often heavy enough to make the violin feel very scroll-heavy. A fine violin is balanced so that it doesn’t feel heavy in hand, so adding enough weight to one end will throw the balance off substantially.



Basses tend to have guitar style tuners because the strings are just so thick and many players don’t have the hand strength to be able to tune pegs of the necessary size. That being said, the machine tuners on basses are arguably the most annoying thing to deal with when working on basses. They have issues constantly and when parts have to be replaced it can be a nightmare. The weight added for basses is not an issue because they’re played upright, and the position of the tuners works well enough for a player standing or seated on a stool.

I disagree about the peg shaver blade  setup as well. Having a squared edge is important because the peg needs to be trimmed right up to its collar; a rounded edge would not allow a crisp cut at the collar. Pegs can splinter in shavers, but this can be minimized by setting the blades properly, making sure they're sharp, scoring the pegs near thr collars to prevent chipping, and investing in good quality shavers. The first shop where I worked had the full set of Alberti shavers, and they were a dream to use--you didn't even have to be careful with them because they cut so cleanly and accurately that splintering was practically impossible. That precision made all the difference in efficiency in a shop where the luthiers were expected to set violins up at blistering speed!

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 09/13/2025 07:12:28

DougD - Posted - 09/13/2025:  07:36:14

Four metal fine tuners on the tailpiece may add some weight (although the optimal weight of a tailpiece seems open to debate) but adverse effect on tone is more because they reduce the string afterlength from what is recommended. I've experimented with tailpiece placement, and you really can hear the difference,.

farmerjones - Posted - 09/13/2025:  16:20:13

They kinda had this stuff dialed in by about 1540 (AD).