Strabo - Posted - 08/25/2025:  08:28:34

Sometimes BG and old-time jams play reels at speeds that are very fast for me. Those youngsters are quite speedy. So I’m working on playing faster.

I recently tried adjusting my bow grip to see if that would help. I’ve always played with my thumb under the frog and now I’m testing whether it might help to play with my thumb on the stick -- what I understand to be the more traditional way.

I understand that it’s difficult to alter established habits, but I figure that the never-ending task of learning to play involved some experimentation from time to time.

I know that many of the folks here are more accomplished fiddlers than I, so maybe you can give me some suggestions.

farmerjones - Posted - 08/25/2025:  11:22:01

I wouldn't say that I'm accomplished but I have an opinion! 1st, don't change your grip. Because then you have a fish out of water issue. Just set a metronome as fast as you want to play. Just bow One Note that fast. The faster the tempo the less you have to move! Now Bow two or three notes keep in time with the metronome. Then bow a phrase in time.
What's the tune in question?

pete_fiddle - Posted - 08/25/2025:  14:18:56

Yes thumb under frog will give you a fatter bluegrass tone, but i find that thumb on stick gives you more "Dexterity" at speed. Albeit with a thinner tone which can be adjusted by altering bow speed , weight, sounding point etc, with practice.



But who am i to question the likes of Michael Cleveland and Alison Krauss et al. I think Alison can do both? Maybe Michael can too?

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 08/25/2025 14:24:32

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 08/25/2025:  18:18:21

Thumb under frog does limit dexterity and forces the arm to move more than it really should, but most of the time problems in reaching speed come from a disconnect between the left and right hands, not an inability to move the right hand fast enough. If you practice slowly and build up consistency, you’ll likely find that when you’re actually playing at speed, it will feel slower than it did when you tried before.

Working on posture and technique is never a bad idea.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 09/01/2025:  06:34:46

Posture and technique as TVB writes. Let me add loose wrist and loose fingers ie. not over gripping with either hand has assisted me with more fluid playing. Changing your bow hold, if you decide to, will take a bit of getting used to. Not impossible, but definitely some "back to basics"" study. Playing something that does not require a lot of left-hand consideration will help I expect. I did try out an under the thumb grip and even some Micharl Cleveland full hand on frog >>>>>> I went back to the more standard thumb tip on stick hold. Good luck.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 09/01/2025:  10:19:56

I don’t see any harm in working on a different bow hold. Yes, it can mean a lot of re-learning and a keen focus on basic elements of bowing is in order, but that kind of close examination is often a great catalyst for improvement.



I’ve heard the argument before that changing bow hold will cause one to become insecure and unable to return to the former technique if the new one doesn’t appear to yield results (much like golfers getting the Yips after experimenting with unusual techniques), but I would posit that if that is the case, one has not really built a solid foundation in technique to begin with, and the issues that led to wanting to experiment with a different posture are indicators that the previous approach was not working.



One of the first things teachers regularly do with new students (regardless of their level of playing experience) is to evaluate fundamental technique and replace it where necessary before getting into repertoire or the development of musicality. Winners of competitions and scholarships often speak of having to learn how to use the bow all over upon entering a major conservatory.



Going through this process later in life may provide some impediment, but I think that’s more to do with stubbornness than mechanical ability. New learning does not erase old learning if it was ever given much cultivation, so if anything, expanding awareness of technique is overwhelmingly positive. You may find that you prefer doing something else, but if you get even a small foothold on the doorway to violin playing technique, it won’t be shut on you should you return.

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 09/01/2025 10:21:59

ShawnCraver - Posted - 09/06/2025:  07:28:46

I hear that quite a bit... things like "those dang youngins play so fast"...

it has nothing to do with age.

in fact i have noticed in bluegrass some of the younger bands play much slower than monroe or stanleys did.

that might be the first suggestion i'd have... internalize the fact that bluegrass especially has always been fast and flashy and age has little to do with it

ShawnCraver - Posted - 09/06/2025:  07:35:43

i also dont think bow hold is that big if a factor in speed. more so might be what part of the bow is used in bowing passages...



for example, bowing a tune like leather britches... that opening phrase of...



GABG AGBG | GABG AGEG



bowing that (or any phrase) closer to the tip of the bow is going to be different experience than bowing it down near the frog.

Edited by - ShawnCraver on 09/06/2025 07:38:36

farmerjones - Posted - 09/06/2025:  09:23:09

I agree Shawn,

When I sit on something low like a milk crate, I have to choke up. It doesn't seem like it matters that much because my mind is on the tune.

Mind Over Matter: If you don't mind, it don't matter.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 09/06/2025:  12:20:45

You guys made me get out my ruler and measure where I place my thumb on the bow. The result -- Four and a Quarter Inches from the bow's end. In any case, I keep the rest of my four fingers on the bow (including pinky!) spread out enough to lend me a comfortable balance point when I'm not actually putting bow to string.

I got to say, too, that I have indeed found my perfect spot to hold the thing. I can bear down when I need to, and I'm able to keep things light as a feather when I feel the urge to be an "artiste."