Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  10:08:44

Ok, this is how it went. The old violin I bought and that is perhaps a real JTL with lowered neck came with a funny bridge, a very low one with not very precise incisions for the strings. You can see that the one who adapted the bridge first got it wrong and then made new incisions. I once used sandpaper on this bridge to make it flatter, but today it felt like I did take off too much, it came to my mind it was good that the strings were closer to the fingerboard but after I have been playing this fiddle for a couple of days it feels like the strings are a tiny bit too close to the fingerboard now.

Today I noticed the still brand new looking bridge that once belonged to the cheap 90 euro VSO , the Stagg instrument that was also still in a case somewhere. And suddenly I thought you know what , I can't **** up more than the one who made the funny bridge with wrong incisions did. So I took out some precision file and yes slowly started to take some of the wood of the highest part and a bit of the lowest part so that to my feeling it would fit.



I changed the bridge , tuned the fiddle and here we go. And it feels like now I can play it like I can play my good fiddle : without having to think where to put my fingers when taking double strings for example.



Did I actually do this?

Is it dangerous?

Was it stupid?



Please add your thoughts on this! I will see if I can take some pictures tomorrow by daylight.

Edited by - Quincy on 12/12/2024 10:10:58

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  10:35:41

Here is the result in sound. I do not know how you best can show the sound of a violin, I just tried to give an idea...

Edited by - Quincy on 12/12/2024 10:37:12

Scales

 

wrench13 - Posted - 12/12/2024:  10:38:25

Bridge height will not harm a fiddle, but having the feet not match the curvature of the top plate perfectly will. Great for causing cracks under the bridge feet. THe few times I did this, I put a piece of carbon paper over the top plate, and carefully rub the bridge feet on that, in the correct bridge position. High spots will show as black while spots not touching the top will be plain. The goal is to have the entire foot surface come back 100% black.

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  10:42:48

Wait I need to use a translator on this text... Edit: ok I see ... well in the worst case I ruined a fiddle that was not too pricey hehe. If I understand well... I will only find out after a while? Or do you see the black spots immediately?

Edited by - Quincy on 12/12/2024 10:46:19

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  10:53:56

Is there some kind of video on this ?

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  11:04:48

Here are 3 pics.

Edited by - Quincy on 12/12/2024 11:08:43

1

3

2

 

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/12/2024:  11:18:43

You can compare it to the one on you other violin and see that the top looks extra tall. The feet really should contact to top fully. That is what Al was getting it. Nothing is ruined until/unless one of feet create a pressure point because it isn't properly smooth. Imagine pressing a sharp bit of very hard wood into the not so hard spruce top. That's the potential damage that could result in a crack. Look on YouTube for "fitting a violin bridge" for visual instructions.

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/12/2024:  11:20:46

YouTube is my first choice for answers to nearly all hands on questions, from Auto mechanical to Zamboni operation.

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  11:32:35

I am carefully rewatching the Olaf video on how to fit a bridge...

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  11:34:58

At least the symmetry looks ok...I'll take this one to the luthier also when I have to go pick up my good fiddle! PS:sorry for the chat attitude in this topic... I am just trying to check this. Luthier is the best I can do maybe. I wish I could write a fiddle tune, something titled These bridges look all  alike :-p

Edited by - Quincy on 12/12/2024 11:39:59

4

 

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  11:47:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by wrench13

Bridge height will not harm a fiddle, but having the feet not match the curvature of the top plate perfectly will. Great for causing cracks under the bridge feet. THe few times I did this, I put a piece of carbon paper over the top plate, and carefully rub the bridge feet on that, in the correct bridge position. High spots will show as black while spots not touching the top will be plain. The goal is to have the entire foot surface come back 100% black.

---

Finally I can picture this, it  took me several attempts . Thanks a lot , now it makes sense :-) 

DougD - Posted - 12/12/2024:  12:22:48

Quincy - The most important part of fitting a bridge is that the shape of the feet fit the curvature of the top as perfectly as possible. This is for the maximum transmission of the vibations, but also to avoid gouges or possible cracks in the soft top if the string pressure is concentrated unevenly. The carbon paper method Al suggested is a good way to get close. You should check this as soon as possble - don't wait for a trip to the luthier. The black spots will be immediately visible as you work.
Of course there are YouTube videos that show how to do this - just remember "Don't believe everything you see on the Internet." There are also websites that may have better information.

wrench13 - Posted - 12/12/2024:  17:17:18

Quincy, fitting a bridge is a tricky thing at best for a newbie, i'd get a few cheapo ones from CHina and practice on them. A really sharp straight edge knife or better yet a scalpel is used to scrape (not cut) away the high spots ( the black areas) until the whole foot comes back entirely black. Make sure the bridge stays perpendicular to the top too, or it will sit wrong from front to back. Violin luthiers have tools and fixtures to make this easier, quciker and more reliable, but doing it by hand is possible. Have fun!

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/12/2024:  17:26:46

For good information on cutting a bridge, here is a good place to start. Not everyone does it exactly this way, but it explains the essentials better than the YouTube videos:
trianglestrings.com/carving-a-...n-bridge/

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  17:32:38

The problem is at the moment I do not have carbon paper neither a correct knife.... What if I just tune it low to play a bit safer as by way of speaking and wait for the luthier? (I really have a problem NOT to play :-/ I just can't help it, I love it so much and I am working on interesting tunes) My good fiddle could be ready soon. I brought it to him on Monday I believe. I asked besides a solution for the broken fine tuner of the good fiddle and a cleaning of the instrument for a titanium A string together with a new set of Helicores, he might be just waiting for that A string, because he did not have a titanium one on stock. I will give him a call tomorrow. Suddenly it kind of scares me off to go any further with this experiment at least for this violin! If there is any instrument that I don't care for to ruin it would be the black Stagg thing that is now lacking a bridge and some strings.

Edited by - Quincy on 12/12/2024 17:37:48

DougD - Posted - 12/12/2024:  17:55:39

Why not go back to the bridge where the strings are just a tiny bit too low for now?
Also, I'd recommend you keep some spare strings and a few small spare parts on hand. Giving up a fiddle just to have the strings changed is silly, and you can change a fine tuner yourself in about five minutes.
Fitting a violin bridge may seem like a daunting task when you look at a site like Triangle strings (who I'm sure do an excellent job) but remember that the people who do it are human, just like you - they just have training and experience (hopefully). As far as tools, you can do a lot with a good sharp pocket knife, and a set of X-acto knives and some small files (which I guess you already have) are very handy too.
PS - Fiddles actually very rarely need "cleaning" if you take care of them.

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  18:11:09

I am guilty for the rosin part Doug :-D It will look a lot better after he used his products on it. He was not going to completely clean it by removing everything, but he thought a bit of cleaning would do well for the fiddle.

wrench13 - Posted - 12/12/2024:  19:30:36

I've also tried using very fine sandpaper or emery cloth over the top, rough side out, and rubbing the bridge, again really carefully, side to side just a tiny bit to get the curvature. That works but is easy to screw up - dont ask how I know.

Quincy - Posted - 12/12/2024:  20:20:22

lol AI !!! I can feel you here haha!

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/13/2024:  07:17:32

Since the sandpaper method for fitting bridges has been mentioned, I feel duty-bound to link these old classic “instructional” videos:

youtu.be/v1XXuo3hv6U?si=nE7uW1Y_s-yYbET3

youtu.be/ijfo8MpbAus?si=8J4IYQDHDiazXoGR

Just for context, David Burgess, the luthier in the videos is one of the most highly esteemed violin makers in the world who is known for his unapologetic obsession with precision and workmanship. Although these videos were made in jest, they are unfortunately not too far off from the extremities of some of the abominable DIY violin repair content posted on YouTube.

wrench13 - Posted - 12/14/2024:  04:14:26

Rich, you gotta put a strong caveat after those 2 videos! DON'T DO THIS AT HOME! OR AT ALL !! or someone will say Hey that's a great idea! You know someone will.

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/14/2024:  08:21:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by wrench13

Rich, you gotta put a strong caveat after those 2 videos! DON'T DO THIS AT HOME! OR AT ALL !! or someone will say Hey that's a great idea! You know someone will.

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I thought the same thing. 

martyjoe - Posted - 12/14/2024:  09:50:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by wrench13

Rich, you gotta put a strong caveat after those 2 videos! DON'T DO THIS AT HOME! OR AT ALL !! or someone will say Hey that's a great idea! You know someone will.

---

I just ordered an extra large machine to move the bench back and forth. Now t figure out how to fix the violin. :-)

Quincy - Posted - 12/14/2024:  10:42:23

Monday I will pick up the good fiddle at the luthier, I called him he will also have a look at the old instrument and the bridge that it now has. I do love this old violin <3 At least it is easy to tune and the pegs stay where they should once tuned. It sounds very appealing. It is not always easy to show this in a recording but I adore it. That it is an old instrument is extra charming.

wrench13 - Posted - 12/15/2024:  16:21:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by martyjoe

quote:

---

Originally posted by wrench13

Rich, you gotta put a strong caveat after those 2 videos! DON'T DO THIS AT HOME! OR AT ALL !! or someone will say Hey that's a great idea! You know someone will.

---

I just ordered an extra large machine to move the bench back and forth. Now t figure out how to fix the violin. :-)

---

Well that has the makings of a fine ethnic joke there Martyjoe!    How many ************s  does it take to fit a violin bridge?  10.   1 to hold the bridge and 9 to move the table back and forth!  Yuk Yuk!  

Edited by - wrench13 on 12/15/2024 16:23:45

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/16/2024:  09:34:34

Or drummer joke, or bass player joke... Banjo.... Lol

pete_fiddle - Posted - 12/16/2024:  13:24:01

Don't know but i think i see one big fault ! ....It looks like your sound post is in front of your bridge rather than behind it???

pete_fiddle - Posted - 12/16/2024:  13:50:25

quote:

---

Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Don't know but i think i see one big fault ! ....It looks like your sound post is in front of your bridge rather than behind it???

---

Picture #2

If it is on the wrong side, putting it right will dramatically alter the sound !

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 12/16/2024 13:58:31

Quincy - Posted - 12/16/2024:  14:01:11

I picked up the good fiddle today and left the old fiddle at the atelier . My luthier said the old fiddle needs another bridge, also because the lowered neck is a fact. He will use a bridge with a lowered heart he explained and carve it till it fits well.
I feel lucky to have him as a luthier. We get along well :-) He was very happy to show me my good fiddle-. He did an excellent job ! It is shining like a mirror now and does it ring... ! It was hard to believe that was the same fiddle I handed in. The tailpiece had to be replaced because he lacked the right screws for the finetuner that broke off , but that's ok.
I know he will find a way to get the best out of the old fiddle as well, new strings with a titanium A string and a new bridge and some cleaning.

Pete, I am not sure about that picture, it was hard to take pictures from the right angle, it might give wrong idea. I lay all my belief in this old fiddle in the hands of the luthier now.

martyjoe - Posted - 12/16/2024:  14:35:16

quote:

---

Originally posted by pete_fiddle

quote:

---

Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Don't know but i think i see one big fault ! ....It looks like your sound post is in front of your bridge rather than behind it???

---

Picture #2

If it is on the wrong side, putting it right will dramatically alter the sound !

---

I just recently found out that it can be ok to have the bridge behind the sound post. I had poor response due to lack of tension on my player fiddle. Putting the bridge back to the same distance behind the sound post made a big improvement all round!

pete_fiddle - Posted - 12/16/2024:  14:42:50

martyjoe ....Never heard of that one!....

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/16/2024:  15:25:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Don't know but i think i see one big fault ! ....It looks like your sound post is in front of your bridge rather than behind it???

---

It also appears to be at a slant! 

No worries. Anja, you have a luthier who know what he's doing, he'll figure it out and definitely improve the sound and/or ease of play. Probably both. 

Quincy - Posted - 12/26/2024:  23:59:18

My luthier called me last week and said the neck was loose and he asked if he could put it back in space. Ofcourse I said yes and asked if he same time could try to find a solution for the lowered neck and he is going to do that also. It will be an extra cost besides the bridge that needs to be carved and the new strings, but at least my bonus for the end of the year is well spent this way :-)) Looking forward to the result. Finally this old fiddle is getting what it deserves!

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 12/27/2024:  06:38:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quincy

My luthier called me last week and said the neck was loose and he asked if he could put it back in space. Ofcourse I said yes and asked if he same time could try to find a solution for the lowered neck and he is going to do that also. It will be an extra cost besides the bridge that needs to be carved and the new strings, but at least my bonus for the end of the year is well spent this way :-)) Looking forward to the result. Finally this old fiddle is getting what it deserves!

---

Glad to hear you're getting the issues sorted out. A periodical inspection by a luthier can save you a lot of money in the long run--just imagine how much worse it would have been if the neck had broken out and taken the button with it! Raising the projection on a violin is a procedure that makes a considerable difference in tone and playability. I do this almost daily on violins new and old alike. 

Quincy - Posted - 12/27/2024:  08:44:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quincy

My luthier called me last week and said the neck was loose and he asked if he could put it back in space. Ofcourse I said yes and asked if he same time could try to find a solution for the lowered neck and he is going to do that also. It will be an extra cost besides the bridge that needs to be carved and the new strings, but at least my bonus for the end of the year is well spent this way :-)) Looking forward to the result. Finally this old fiddle is getting what it deserves!

---

Glad to hear you're getting the issues sorted out. A periodical inspection by a luthier can save you a lot of money in the long run--just imagine how much worse it would have been if the neck had broken out and taken the button with it! Raising the projection on a violin is a procedure that makes a considerable difference in tone and playability. I do this almost daily on violins new and old alike. 

---

I'll post some pictures when I have the instrument back.

I really wonder now what the sound will be like, it was already very pleasing imho, even with the wrong bridge I put on it!

For those of you who would like, you can hear me play this old fiddle with the wrong bridge here : youtu.be/WvQKTHVz84k . If the sound  will get even better then I can call myself very lucky!

Edited by - Quincy on 12/27/2024 08:51:49

tarheel - Posted - 01/19/2025:  20:23:46

I believe your neck has/is falling. The fingerboard looks very close to the top plate.That is why someone tried to reduce the string height by lowering the bridge. eventually it will drop down and touch the plate, if it doesnt seperate completely. To repair that requires a neck reset.

tarheel - Posted - 01/19/2025:  20:29:42

OOPS sorry, I didnt see your post where you said you had taken it to a luthier!

Strabo - Posted - 01/26/2025:  07:55:21

This is interesting to me. The bridge on on my favorite fiddle is beginning to warp -- again. I have always been careful to keep the bridge in the correct vertical position, but that bridge warped anyway. I straightened it and reinstalled it on the fiddle, and now it is again starting to warp.

I acquired an inexpensive bridge and will begin working on it. I tried the sandpaper fitting method on a mandolin once and I did not like the risks of scratching the top. So I will use the carbon paper approach this time. 

I'm happy with the height, shape and string spacing of the current bridge, so I'll use it as a template.

I guess I could continue to straighten the current bridge every time it warps, but it seems worthwhile to try for a more stable solution. 

wrench13 - Posted - 01/26/2025:  08:45:37

Strabo how fun! You get to experiment with fitting and shaping. Dont forget thickness, too.