Jeric - Posted - 08/13/2024:  19:12:51

Ok, just for fun I'm looking at carbon fiber 5 string fiddles, and the Glasser ones have both wall to wall fine tuners AND planetary pegs.

WUWT? I thought one of the big advantages of p.pegs was you could reduce mass below the bridge.

DougBrock - Posted - 08/14/2024:  00:11:28

Probably tradition. Fiddlers have been using fine tuners on the tail piece so long and may want the option to use either? I have geared pegs on all my fiddles and have replaced the tailpieces with wooden tailpieces that don’t have fine tuners. LOVE geared pegs on a fiddle!

Strabo - Posted - 08/14/2024:  03:45:14

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeric

Ok, just for fun I'm looking at carbon fiber 5 string fiddles, and the Glasser ones have both wall to wall fine tuners AND planetary pegs.



WUWT? I thought one of the big advantages of p.pegs was you could reduce mass below the bridge.

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Strabo - Posted - 08/14/2024:  03:59:27

I have both geared pegs and fine tuners on my two fiddles and they seem to work fine. I guess I could have removed the fine tuners, but it didn't seem worth the effort. The geared pegs are great for switching to alternate tunings and I have the well-established habit of reaching up to the fine tuners when little adjustments are needed. 

I've heard that tonecan be better without fine tuners, but I don't know how much difference it makes and if I would even notice it. And at my skill level it probably makes no difference at all. 

wrench13 - Posted - 08/14/2024:  06:25:29

Anyone know the weight difference between say a good composite tailpiece with fine tuners vs a good quality ebony or rosewood tailpiece?

DougBrock - Posted - 08/14/2024:  06:35:52

I don’t remember offhand but you can go somewhere like the Fiddlerman site and look at different options in material, design and weight.  Even the same wood might have a lighter weight option where they remove some of the wood underneath the tailpiece. I went for lighter weight options but couldn't tell a difference in resulting sound, so on subsequent tailpieces I went by appearance. The lightest option was a very pricey titanium tailpiece but I didn't try that. :)

Edited by - DougBrock on 08/14/2024 06:40:43

RobBob - Posted - 08/14/2024:  08:26:05

50 years of playing fiddle and the last couple with geared tuners. I put them on at the urging of the luthier who built my fiddle. He added a Glaser carbon fiber tailpiece with fine tuners. One may still forget how easy it is to tune with geared tuners and tend to used the fine tuner for tweaking the string a few cents. The nice thing about geared tuners is that the fiddle is very nearly where you left it the last time you played. No seasonal surprises as it dries out and the friction pegs let loose. Tone wise it didn't hurt the sound and the length between the bridge and tailpiece is more like it should be according to all knowledgeable setup people.

DougD - Posted - 08/14/2024:  11:39:44

wrench13 - I wondered that too, and because I'm planning a multi player tailpiece trade I did a little research. It appears that wooden tailpieces range from 10 to 17 grams or so, depending on wood and construction, with some a little less, even 7.5 grams. I couldn't find info on the Wittner, but the Fiddlerman composite tailpiece is 20 grams, including the tuners. It also seems that lighter is not always better either.
As far as the carbon fiber 5 string in the OP, maybe they're just trying to appeal to the widest group of customers, or maybe they're using their own tailpiece, which already has them built in. I thought eliminating add on fine tuners was not so much to reduce mass but to optimize the afterlength.

RobBob - Posted - 08/15/2024:  06:02:34

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

I thought eliminating add on fine tuners was not so much to reduce mass but to optimize the afterlength.

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The after length makes the biggest difference in tone, not the weight with the tailpiece.  That is according to a builder I spoke with recently.