old cowboy - Posted - 07/17/2023:  04:45:43

I want to put a new bridge on my fiddle. Is this something I can do my self, or do I need to take it to the shop?

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 07/17/2023:  05:38:21

Well, it is best done by a professional. It can be done with patience , and much trial and error, but in truth you will have a better job done for both your ear and your fiddle by someone who has cut many bridges. This does beg the question of why do you think you need a new bridge?

farmerjones - Posted - 07/17/2023:  05:54:08

I'll put it this way: if you can watch over the shoulder of the expert, if you're halfway handy and have some simple tools, you can try your hand at the second bridge. Blank bridges aren't all that expensive, but don't be fooled, they still needs to be fitted. And after all, you can revert to the first bridge, if it's not broken.

DougD - Posted - 07/17/2023:  08:41:44

This is something you can do yourself, but there'a lot to it. I think the rule of thumb is that after you make about 50 of them you'll start to get the hang of it. Considering your problems with arthritis I'd just take it to a shop. Its not cheap though, but as I said there's a lot to a good job.

Edited by - DougD on 07/17/2023 08:43:01

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 07/17/2023:  10:21:06

Bridges make or break instruments, so while it is technically possible to cut a DIY bridge from a blank, if you’ve never had experience cutting bridges before, you’re going to be unaware of all of the intricacies that go into making a good one. Luthiers make names for themselves through their skill in cutting bridges and soundposts.

Yes, you can buy a blank for just a few dollars, but you’re only buying the materials, not the knowledge and skill to make use of them. A poorly cut bridge is a huge waste of any amount of money because it holds both the instrument and player back.

wilford - Posted - 07/17/2023:  10:45:16

I'm no artist at violin bridge set up. I do have a lot of fun "setting" one up, though. I usually use Teller or Aubert bridges because I bought a lot of them years ago from International Violin.



I made a contraption out of sandpaper that I lay carefully on the top plate where the bridge goes and I sand the bridge feet down to the exact curvature of the top plate. Then, I determine the proper height and sand down to my cut line curvature after measuring from the fingerboard radius and the planned string heights.



I sand the bridge feet down to 4.5 mm in thickness for the width and 12 mm in length. I leave the back of the bridge pretty much perpendicular to the top plate and angle the front of the bridge by sanding. I try to end up with the top of the bridge at around 2.5 mm or somewhere close.



I try very hard not to cut very deep into the bridge where the strings pass over because the strings are more free to vibrate when they are not enclosed on each side by a deep groove in the bridge top.



My ideal string height at the end of the fingerboard to the bottom of the G string is 5 mm and around 6 mm for the E string. (4 mm for the D and A strings). These heights allow me to play way up the neck as well as maintaining an easy height for 1st and 2nd positions.



For bridge placement I usually set the top center of the bridge at 33.1 cm or around 13 inches as measured from the inside of the nut.



All the above measurements are only for my particular preference and may not work out well for others.



I have made a number of templates for some of my favorite fiddles I have set up and the above is a sort of "go to" starting point that serves me well.



Of course there's a lot more to it including enlarging the heart and kidney cutouts, etc. This is just a general overview.

Edited by - wilford on 07/17/2023 10:48:26

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 07/17/2023:  16:20:05

quote:

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Originally posted by wilford

My ideal string height at the end of the fingerboard to the bottom of the G string is 5 mm and around 6 mm for the E string. (4 mm for the D and A strings). These heights allow me to play way up the neck as well as maintaining an easy height for 1st and 2nd positions.

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Do you really mean 6 mm for the E? That's higher than a cello A string! 6 mm is the height for a viola C string. At that height every player I know would find a violin E unplayable. It makes no sense for the E to be higher than the G, so I'm hoping this is a typo.

Most of the other numbers are ok, but I would really advise against sandpaper if you care about getting the bridge to fit. 

wilford - Posted - 07/17/2023:  17:45:27

Hi Rich: I am measuring at the very edge of the fingerboard nearest the bridge. I place the ruler on the fingerboard adjacent to the E string and I measure up to the bottom of the E string. 6 mm is a very short distance in my humble opinion. Playing double stops up the neck on the A and E strings seems to work better for me in this way.

My 1834 fiddle is set at 5 mm from the fingerboard surface to the underside of the E string and that's about as close as I would ever install the bridge height. I guess it's just a matter of "taste".

As far as the sandpaper goes, it never touches the top of the fiddle, only the bottom of the bridge feet. I use 1200 grit for this as it provides a snug fit when finished.

buckhenry - Posted - 07/18/2023:  00:42:11

6 mm is a very short distance

Maybe you are counting the half mm mark as I mm, 3mm would sound about right.

Or taking the measurements in strange places. 

I wouldn't like to play a fiddle with 6mm E string height, in first position it be enormous let alone double stops in higher positions.

And 2.5 mm at the top of the bridge is too wide, mine is only 1.5mm, and the luthier did my bridge. 

DougD - Posted - 07/18/2023:  04:08:26

Fred, something is wrong here. 6 mm is not "a very short distance" - its almost a quarter of an inch! I can't imagine playing a violin with an action that high. 3 mm or so is more like it.

wilford - Posted - 07/18/2023:  06:34:15

When I hold my ruler closest to the inside of the nut (in other words, right where the fingerboard starts) and measure 10.5 inches along the fingerboard, I arrive at the end of the fb. It is here that I make the measurement of 6 mm (actually it's under that and slightly over 5 mm) from the surface of the fb to the underside of the G string. This distance is approximately (3/16) of an inch.

I couldn't begin to count the fiddles I've played that measured more than 6mm on the G and 4mm on the E. For some reason, I prefer the actual measurements of 5 or 6 mm for the G and 3.5 to 4mm for the E.

I re-measured the top of the bridge and it's 1/16
I guess I can't see as well as I used to. ;)

If I ever figure out how to post a picture I'll show you a close up.

old cowboy - Posted - 07/18/2023:  06:46:17

The reason I want to replace it, it wants to fall forward. I have to keep pulling it back up straight. I appreciate all the advice and you have convinced me I need to take it to the repair shop.

Erockin - Posted - 07/18/2023:  07:09:44

I really want to lower my action myself but I'm not prepared or brave enough. If I may ask, if you were to take a fiddle somewhere to have the bridge re-shaped and new strings on, that can be done in how much time? Is that something luthiers can do one sitting? Meaning, most people I know live far enough away that I'd hate to leave it somewhere at this stage. Just curious.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 07/18/2023:  08:51:57

quote:

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Originally posted by Erockin

I really want to lower my action myself but I'm not prepared or brave enough. If I may ask, if you were to take a fiddle somewhere to have the bridge re-shaped and new strings on, that can be done in how much time? Is that something luthiers can do one sitting? Meaning, most people I know live far enough away that I'd hate to leave it somewhere at this stage. Just curious.

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Lowering a bridge takes about 10-15 minutes in most cases. 

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 07/18/2023:  08:58:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by wilford

Hi Rich: I am measuring at the very edge of the fingerboard nearest the bridge. I place the ruler on the fingerboard adjacent to the E string and I measure up to the bottom of the E string. 6 mm is a very short distance in my humble opinion. Playing double stops up the neck on the A and E strings seems to work better for me in this way.



My 1834 fiddle is set at 5 mm from the fingerboard surface to the underside of the E string and that's about as close as I would ever install the bridge height. I guess it's just a matter of "taste".



As far as the sandpaper goes, it never touches the top of the fiddle, only the bottom of the bridge feet. I use 1200 grit for this as it provides a snug fit when finished.

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If you're really measuring at 6mm for the E, that's insanely high to the point of being unplayable. People start to complain when the E is higher than 3.5, so 6 would have them rejecting the fiddle outright. 

 

Sandpaper does not give a proper fit to bridge feet. It's not about damage to the top, it's about getting the feet to be perfectly matched to the contour of the top, and by the nature of the process of fitting with sandpaper (side-to-side or back-and-forth depending on the method) the fit can never be accurate, and an incomplete fit is a bad fit. 

 

If you're measuring 2.5 at the top, that's the thickness for a cello bridge. You won't get much out of a fiddle with that kind of thickness. 

Edited by - The Violin Beautiful on 07/18/2023 09:00:51

Erockin - Posted - 07/18/2023:  09:55:17

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

quote:

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Originally posted by Erockin

I really want to lower my action myself but I'm not prepared or brave enough. If I may ask, if you were to take a fiddle somewhere to have the bridge re-shaped and new strings on, that can be done in how much time? Is that something luthiers can do one sitting? Meaning, most people I know live far enough away that I'd hate to leave it somewhere at this stage. Just curious.

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Lowering a bridge takes about 10-15 minutes in most cases. 

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That sounds assuring. I know many probably don't want someone standing over them, nor would I dare but being new in the fiddle world, I wondered if these appointments can be on the faster side. Dropping it off is def an otpion, and my fiddle teacher would most likely loan me one ( I realized this as I typed )

But that sounds about right. Often I am wanting a new one when I think if I could get this one a little lower, I might be pleased with it. Plus, I have new helicores to put on but I've waited to get this bridge down. Low bridge and new strings, I'll be tickled pink. 

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 07/18/2023:  10:13:44

quote:

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Originally posted by Erockin

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erockin

I really want to lower my action myself but I'm not prepared or brave enough. If I may ask, if you were to take a fiddle somewhere to have the bridge re-shaped and new strings on, that can be done in how much time? Is that something luthiers can do one sitting? Meaning, most people I know live far enough away that I'd hate to leave it somewhere at this stage. Just curious.

---

Lowering a bridge takes about 10-15 minutes in most cases. 

---

That sounds assuring. I know many probably don't want someone standing over them, nor would I dare but being new in the fiddle world, I wondered if these appointments can be on the faster side. Dropping it off is def an otpion, and my fiddle teacher would most likely loan me one ( I realized this as I typed )

But that sounds about right. Often I am wanting a new one when I think if I could get this one a little lower, I might be pleased with it. Plus, I have new helicores to put on but I've waited to get this bridge down. Low bridge and new strings, I'll be tickled pink. 

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Lowering a bridge is one of the smaller things that I can do while customers are waiting.

The only caveats are that 1) once the wood is gone, it can't go back. Be sure you want it lowered! 2) if the bridge high and it wasn't before, the projection is the issue, and the problem may persist. 

 

Lowering a bridge also lowers the projection, which may have a negative impact on sound, as a low projection tends to lead to a muddy sound. If it's only a small change (.5 mm or less) there's less of an issue. 

DougD - Posted - 07/18/2023:  10:23:58

Eric, bridge height also depends to some extent on the type and gauge of strings you use. Synthetic strings vibrate a little more, so they may need a little higher bridge. Steel strings can usually be set a little lower, which is one reason players like them. I'm not so sure about Helicores - they're steel core strings, but because of the stranded construction they're a little "flabby," especially the mediums. Many players find them very easy under the fingers compared to solid cores. So you might want to install the new strings first, then decide on the bridge height. An experienced luthier can be a great help with things like this.

Edited by - DougD on 07/18/2023 10:24:47

TuneWeaver - Posted - 07/18/2023:  18:56:34

John, as you may have read, it takes a lot of skill to put a bridge on correctly.. In the years BC (before computers) fiddlers made do with that tools they had and what skill they had, so in my opinion you have virtually nothing to lose by making and installing your own bridge. Tens of thousands of Old fiddler have done so before us. You can't do more poorly than I did the first few times I tried.. Learn from your mistakes and see what you can come up with.. Good Grief! your fiddle may not even sound too poorly. Fiddle are made to play and unless you do something terrible your instrument will probably still be playable and you'll be proud of your efforts. True, it is probably good to have a professional do the work, but don't underestimate the fun you 'll have, the lessons you'll learn and the pride you'll feel if your self-installed bridge actually Works... Give 'er a try!!!