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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/57757
fiddler135 - Posted - 03/15/2023: 09:30:33
Through the course of making plates, I got what I have learned to define as a “muddy” tap tone. That is, the tap tones do not have well defined node(s), when tested via speaker and tea leaves.
The top plate did have a well a defined 5th mode node, but lost it when the center seam came apart and was re-glued (stress relief most likely). And, The frequency dropped about 1/2 step (e to e-flat).
The plates are about 1/2 step apart, judging by ear, with the fundamental frequency of the back being about an e.
What are the experiences of you builders out there who have run into this phenomenon? Did you end up with a good fiddle? Better fiddle? Worse fiddle?
KCFiddles - Posted - 03/16/2023: 08:10:16
Hard to comment without more information. First question; Are you sure you are matching the modal frequencies exactly? 2. How are you supporting the plates? Have you tried bowing the edges of the plates?
Chladni patterns show up best on flat, uniform plates.
Most of the successful makers I know are aware of vibrational modes, and many developing makers do FFT analysis of modes using Audacity, but it's been years since I've seen any mention of Chladni patterns on Maestronet. You might want to post this question there.
Correction: I just looked on Maestronet and entered "Chladni" as a search term in Pegbox, and came up with a number of hits. If you start a topic, you might actually get some replies from somebody who uses Chladni patterns in their work. I dont.
Edited by - KCFiddles on 03/16/2023 08:18:54
fiddler135 - Posted - 03/16/2023: 18:04:23
quote:
Originally posted by KCFiddlesHard to comment without more information. First question; Are you sure you are matching the modal frequencies exactly? 2. How are you supporting the plates? Have you tried bowing the edges of the plates?
Chladni patterns show up best on flat, uniform plates.
Most of the successful makers I know are aware of vibrational modes, and many developing makers do FFT analysis of modes using Audacity, but it's been years since I've seen any mention of Chladni patterns on Maestronet. You might want to post this question there.Correction: I just looked on Maestronet and entered "Chladni" as a search term in Pegbox, and came up with a number of hits. If you start a topic, you might actually get some replies from somebody who uses Chladni patterns in their work. I dont.
Chladni is a new term to me, but I gather it applies to the analysis of natural frequencies and plate tuning. I will look on maestronet; thanks. Since you don't use natural frequencies in your work, how do you know when to stop carving? (I use a combination of weight and natural frequencies, by ear or electronic measurement.)
KCFiddles - Posted - 03/16/2023: 23:53:09
quote:
Originally posted by fiddler135quote:
Originally posted by KCFiddlesHard to comment without more information. First question; Are you sure you are matching the modal frequencies exactly? 2. How are you supporting the plates? Have you tried bowing the edges of the plates?
Chladni patterns show up best on flat, uniform plates.
Most of the successful makers I know are aware of vibrational modes, and many developing makers do FFT analysis of modes using Audacity, but it's been years since I've seen any mention of Chladni patterns on Maestronet. You might want to post this question there.Correction: I just looked on Maestronet and entered "Chladni" as a search term in Pegbox, and came up with a number of hits. If you start a topic, you might actually get some replies from somebody who uses Chladni patterns in their work. I dont.
Chladni is a new term to me, but I gather it applies to the analysis of natural frequencies and plate tuning. I will look on maestronet; thanks. Since you don't use natural frequencies in your work, how do you know when to stop carving? (I use a combination of weight and natural frequencies, by ear or electronic measurement.)
Those patterns you were talking about are called Chladni patterns, used in plate tuning and modal analysis. When you take advice from people, consider their record. The guy I learned the most from was my employer for five years, and associate for several years after that, He's literally a world class violin maker, with professional musicians playing his violins in orchestras all across the world. When I want to know something about violins, I listen to what he has to say. I know a few other people with similar track records who chip in and give me advice from time to time, and I listen carefully to what they have to offer, but I've learned the most from the one guy I worked with directly. This person tried all the plate tuning stuff in the 1990s, before I came to work for him in 2006. Once he had tried it to his satisfaction he went back to concentrating on wood and arching, and getting the thicknesses right by feel, flexing the plates in his fingers. Last month I looked at some prototype plates for a $10K mandolin he was developing, and I was impressed by how subtle the corrections were to the arching that he had marked on the prototype plates. He has always told me that wood choice and arching are the two most important elements in making a good sounding violin, but also that wood choice isn't the be-all and end-all, because you can make allowances for differences in wood. Other people's opinions may vary, and I'll weigh their opinions in concert with the success of their products.
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