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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Neck tenon


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/56961

fiddler135 - Posted - 07/30/2022:  05:59:00


What are your thoughts on building up the heel of the neck, so as to have a bigger button (and larger neck tenon)?
I cut the tenon too small, and now the button will be (only) 5/8” wide. I can add wood back to the heel, but I have concerns about the strength. Will the glue hold? How should I orient the grain on the newer wood relative to the existing heel for maximum strength of the glue joint and the heel in general? Should I pin the parts together? Etc.
I have made a false button before (which is quite a job), and in order to get the strength I need, it may be necessary to apply the same principle, I.e. inlay the tenon addition into the heel. Your thoughts?

KCFiddles - Posted - 07/30/2022:  08:30:39


I'm not sure I understand your terms, but in general always keep the grain running parallel. Cross grain will always have the wood movement in various parts fighting each other, and should usually be avoided.

Brian Wood - Posted - 07/30/2022:  09:17:11


You should match grain as closely as possible, if I understand correctly that you're building up the heel block in order to change the fit. Also, if I understand, this will show where the neck leaves the body so visually it's important too. Glue is enough. No pins.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 09/03/2022:  16:56:40


I think what the OP meant was that he had cut the mortise in the top block, then cut the neck down too much so that it was too small for the mortise. He was thinking about trying to deal with it by either

1) Keeping the neck heel small, filling in the sides of the mortise, and cutting the button down to match the width of the heel
Or
2) Adding wood to the sides of the neck heel to increase its width so it would fit into the original mortise

If the violin is new, it’s much better to just make a new neck that doesn’t have heel that’s the wrong size. A new violin with this kind of repair is a very bad look and it devalues the instrument.

If it’s an old violin, I’m not sure why the neck was cut down smaller, unless it was a
replacement neck. The button should absolutely not be cut down, as it is something that is very important to the structure and identity of the violin. If the violin is cheap, an appropriate replacement neck will do; if it’s valuable enough, a neck graft is in order.

Brian Wood - Posted - 09/03/2022:  18:45:11


quote:

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

I think what the OP meant was that he had cut the mortise in the top block, then cut the neck down too much so that it was too small for the mortise. He was thinking about trying to deal with it by either



1) Keeping the neck heel small, filling in the sides of the mortise, and cutting the button down to match the width of the heel

Or

2) Adding wood to the sides of the neck heel to increase its width so it would fit into the original mortise



If the violin is new, it’s much better to just make a new neck that doesn’t have heel that’s the wrong size. A new violin with this kind of repair is a very bad look and it devalues the instrument.



If it’s an old violin, I’m not sure why the neck was cut down smaller, unless it was a

replacement neck. The button should absolutely not be cut down, as it is something that is very important to the structure and identity of the violin. If the violin is cheap, an appropriate replacement neck will do; if it’s valuable enough, a neck graft is in order.






Yes, I think we agree. It would be interesting to hear from the OP again.

fiddler135 - Posted - 09/04/2022:  20:19:38


quote:

Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

I think what the OP meant was that he had cut the mortise in the top block, then cut the neck down too much so that it was too small for the mortise. He was thinking about trying to deal with it by either



1) Keeping the neck heel small, filling in the sides of the mortise, and cutting the button down to match the width of the heel

Or

2) Adding wood to the sides of the neck heel to increase its width so it would fit into the original mortise



If the violin is new, it’s much better to just make a new neck that doesn’t have heel that’s the wrong size. A new violin with this kind of repair is a very bad look and it devalues the instrument.



If it’s an old violin, I’m not sure why the neck was cut down smaller, unless it was a

replacement neck. The button should absolutely not be cut down, as it is something that is very important to the structure and identity of the violin. If the violin is cheap, an appropriate replacement neck will do; if it’s valuable enough, a neck graft is in order.






Yes, I think we agree. It would be interesting to hear from the OP again.






It is a new violin. I added to the tenon and cut the mortise (to the new size). I will have to deal with the neck graft some way if it shows too bad. 

Brian Wood - Posted - 09/05/2022:  07:51:14


quote:

Originally posted by fiddler135

 



It is a new violin. I added to the tenon and cut the mortise (to the new size). I will have to deal with the neck graft some way if it shows too bad. 






I once did a similar fix on a fiddle I was building. For some reason I got the tenon too narrow on one side. It wasn't by much. I glued some maple trying to match the grain and finished it. Pretty hard to tell afterward.

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