alaskafiddler - Posted - 02/17/2022:  11:45:48

From other discussions various interests about recording, and what options,

I thought I'd throw out a little on BandLab; as it works on smart phones and ipads... as well as laptops and computers through browser. I haven't used it much but seems to fairly simple... has "some" features capabilities like more regular DAWs. Here is my little test using an iphone6 with built in mic.

Just to quickly play around with it... (I didn't bother with with getting the playing perfect)

Recorded guitar, then fiddle, then banjo... iphone built in mic, on kitchen table about a foot away. Decided to experiment with double tracking method on fiddle and banjo, give stereo field (wasn't very clean, but gives idea). Added a MIDI bass, and MIDI strings; thought maybe MIDI grand piano chord backup, but using iphone for entering in notes while doable I found was a bit clunky. (had considered drums for demo). Added some built in FX of EQ, compression, reverb. 

Attached are result from just a little time put in; just to give ides. While would not be my go to, as I am comfortable with full desktop DAWs... I could see it useful for folks on portable devices; or simple introduction. Using the built in Mic sounded better than I thought... but obviously not as good as good mic. FWIW, some USB mics and some interfaces can plug in... I don't have one. Friend has a Shure MV something that sounds great. My understanding is there are some keyboard/controllers that can connect via lightening or bluetooth, making MIDI input better.

As other note, BandLab saves to cloud, as mentioned above, it also works in browser on desktop; so can go between devices. Also allows to send link to friends; to listen, or can collaborate on tracks. Can also publish, make public, like SoundCloud.

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What are other folks thoughts on simple DAWs; pros and cons. Have anyone used the Garagband app on iphone? 

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 02/17/2022 12:03:34

winderslider

 

DougD - Posted - 02/17/2022:  12:07:01

Maybe the Shure MV88 mcrophone? That's how the vocal in this video was recorded, and it sounds great to me. Reina has the iPhone with the mic tucked into her shirt - you can see her check it at the beginning of the video. Thy are not fooling around with other aspects of the production though.
youtu.be/5_buG8KIakY

As far as DAWs, I have an app called Audio Evolution Mobile thats really comprehensive. It uses the "USB OTG" feature of Android devices though - I'm not sure if there's an iOS version or not. This little tablet doesn't really have the resources to run it properly, but I just got a new one with bigger screen and lots more RAM and storage. I've used it to master CDs though.

NCnotes - Posted - 02/17/2022:  12:32:21

I logged a lot of time in Bandlab when I was injured and couldn't play either guitar or violin. It's fun, intuitive and also has kind of a social community (you can follow people, they can follow you, you can have Collabs and invite people to contribute to your mix, etc). LIke, if we wanted to Collab with eachother, we could send out invites to one person to record the banjo track, one person to record the guitar track, one person to record fiddle, one person to sing, etc. Kind of like a virtual band :-)

I have heard some amazing quality tracks on BandLab - mostly from those people who can "plug in" their instruments directly (i.e. synthesizers, electric guitar, etc)....and don't have to resort to playing piano on their computer keyboard (me).
I've also heard tracks with barking dogs, crying babies, and talking, LOL.

From the little bit that I encountered - it seemed that more Serious Ambitious musicians mix with "Studio FL" and post their tracks on "Soundcloud"?
I've never tried Studio FL, it seems kind of daunting.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 02/17/2022:  12:45:14

My friend has the Shure MV51. 

I never much looked into or thought about mobile apps for multi-track recording. Then again, I don't use my phone much to it's ability as a computer (as my kids remind me); mostly just use my phone as a "phone"; with texting; don't use it to surf web, watch video, or even as an ipod player. Mostly still like my desktop... but suppose I should get with times and technology. For me, most of my stuff (mics/interfaces/keyboards)f is geared toward desktop, and not mobile... I even still have analog tape. But I could see potential with good mic/interface. Esp on a tablet (the small screen of phone is limiting to me).

Thanks for Audio Evolution Mobile suggestion, looks interesting, perhaps more features like full DAW, than BandLab? Of course one consideration in this discussion is what end user wants to do as far as editing, and plugins, MIDI, sampling, loops, fx, mixing. For hobbyist, or newbie, esp mostly acoustic music; ease of use as well as cost might be factors. 

alaskafiddler - Posted - 02/17/2022:  12:56:42

As far as Studio FL; I think Ableton is another popular choice. My son uses both, prefers Ableton.

My take, is while they can record acoustic, they seem more designed with user workflow around MIDI, sampling, loops, beats type environment? 

Other DAWs are opposite; workflow seem more based on just old school recording with mic and mixing editing that... but still have those other features of MIDI/sample/loop. 

The other aspect is integrating with video, such as film scoring... to which some like Logic seems better suited. Another aspect is if DAW integrates with notational software; that is can import, or has built in feature. 

Not sure how important those features are for folks on FHO?

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 02/17/2022 13:04:17

JHDuncan - Posted - 02/17/2022:  15:02:44

I use Ableton and I can't recommend it enough.

I've been a Garageband user since almost day 1. I've dabbled in Reaper and Audacity as well. Using Ableton as a fiddler is a highly powerful tool.

It's great to record in. It's great to slow down tough songs and passages. It has very intuitive looping, metronome and effects.

NCnotes - Posted - 02/23/2022:  11:17:56

Here's latest attempt at multitrack...no longer sounds like gurgling in the shower!

recording device: Blue Yeti USB mic (plugged into my Mac)

DAW: Garage Band

I think it's an improvement over previous attempts (Voice Memos app on my iphone + Bandlab).
I found that because Bandlab runs "in the cloud", you get more latency (delay) and wind up having to jigger the tracks around more to sync them up. It sounded pretty "together" in Garage Band (which I have running on my computer) and I didn't have to work on syncing the tracks.

Farewell to the Creeks

 

pete_fiddle - Posted - 02/23/2022:  14:22:16

NCnotes, sounds good but i see what you mean about the latency issues. Only way i ever got over that (when i was into recording gear), was to use an internal pci sound card or audio interface. I suppose nowadays it would be a PCI-E sound card or audio interface.

With an old AMD 4 core cpu, using Windows XP 32 bit, an M-Audio Delta 44 sound card, and a balanced mic, at 24 bit and 96khz sampling , i got a reported latency of about a millisecond using Reaper as my DAW, which was totally imperceptible to me.

I think that USB audio devices always had, still have Latency issues. But maybe USB 3.0 is better nowadays?

NCnotes - Posted - 02/23/2022:  15:43:05

Thanks Pete,
Interesting, I did not know that USB audio devices could have Latency as well!
Guess a little more jiggering / experimenting will go on, over here...

I know that I have a Radeon video card in my Mac already for graphics (I could play great video games on here, if I was into gaming, ha ha...which is what most people use them for) Makes sense that there are cards for sound/audio as well.

ChickenMan - Posted - 02/23/2022:  18:09:25

I use Audacity for my DAW and an analog to digital interface - a Focusrite product so I can use up to 2 standard mics (of which I already owned several) - for input. Any latency issues can be easily dealt with/eliminated by referring to the online user manual.

I've heard good things about the DAW called Reaper and just haven't tried it yet. 

alaskafiddler - Posted - 02/23/2022:  19:38:31

An external mic (USB or thru interface) will generally get much better results than phone; I just wanted to do demo of what is possible with multitrack app if only had phone.

As far as latency, there might be some misunderstanding of different aspect, but cloud based shouldn't really be an issue. That said, every DAW and device itself needs to deal test and calibrate offset. Most do so automatic on start up, some might have to run test. 

The quest for ultra low latency is sometimes overrated, as for most applications it is unnecessary or perhaps desired as it increases CPU demand, heat, and xrun issues. Only if you really need realtime loopback thru DAW monitor with wet process/fx. Most time have that off. 

alaskafiddler - Posted - 02/23/2022:  19:46:44

Forgot to ask if ever tried the Garageband app for iOS (iphone, ipad)? Seems similar to BandLab... including cloud aspect and sharing between devices, computer and collaboration. I can't use it on mie phone (too old) but was at a friends, seems to have some nice features. The virtual violin plugin is kind of interesting, using the touch pad like fingerboard... might be able to play with when don't have fiddle, maybe work out LH fingering?

Also notice the app store has free Logic Remote app which works with Garageband (and Logic)... might be worth a try. 

JonD - Posted - 02/23/2022:  20:57:05

Nice demos there Geo and NCNotes!
For anyone getting into video, thought I’d mention that Davinci Resolve is an amazing, full-featured video and multitrack audio editing tool that has an absolutely free version with 90% of the power of the paid version.

NCnotes - Posted - 02/23/2022:  21:55:31

Thanks for the tip, JonD! Lots of tools mentioned here that I never heard of.

I have played with the iOs version of Garage Band. Yes, fun interesting stuff on there...I remembered that there were instruments where you could slide your finger, and it would make a corresponding sliding noise...fun! There were little music "symbols" that you could drag and drop into a grid to create a composition. (I forced my entire family to listen to my new Indian/techno/hiphop beat - LOL, my poor family). If I could just wrench the ipad out of my daughter's hands more often, I'd have more to report! :-)

I find the desktop version of Garage Band to be similar to Bandlab...controls are maybe a little less intuitive and pretty than Bandlab...but still works great.

For some reason I found that the latency of recording on Bandlab was significantly worse than recording on Garageband (desktop version). There is a menu item in Bandlab to fix the Latency issue, but when I clicked on it, it kept giving me an error message so I was not sure how to use it.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 02/24/2022:  00:36:28

quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

I use Audacity for my DAW and an analog to digital interface - a Focusrite product so I can use up to 2 standard mics (of which I already owned several) - for input. Any latency issues can be easily dealt with/eliminated by referring to the online user manual.

I've heard good things about the DAW called Reaper and just haven't tried it yet. 

---

 i used audacity too before i got Reaper. My thing was to try out vintage Audio stuff, so i just wanted to plug them in and hear what they sounded like, with as little latency as possible. The Delta 44 sound card provided 4 balanced inputs, 4 balanced outputs at 24/96 sampling, with next to zero latency, i could even use some of the reaper's native FX while recording and monitoring, with negligible latency. i think that was about 10 years ago and i got it 2nd hand from ebay for £35. With a little Behringer mixer for about the same price it was like a tiny recording studio to play with.

Erockin - Posted - 02/08/2023:  05:11:18

So, in a nut shell and go ahead and use whatever fancy terms you know,

How is bandlab and is it completely free? I use GarageBand exclusively for my home recordings and others that use GB, we were able to share files and collaborate that way. Really, as long as your sharing MP3s, any of it really works. But this BandLab intrigues me.
So if I create something on my own, I can drop it in BL for others to hear and record their part to? I'm inferencing here...lol

If anyone loves it, let me know. I'd love to share some tracks and collaborate for fun. I'm not ready to share my fiddle yet but there are certainly a plethora of awesome players on here.

RB-1 - Posted - 02/08/2023:  07:55:56

I started my DAW adventure round the turn of the century with ProTools 5.

Later on I built an entirely new, dedicated Windows 7 desktop, equipped with ProTools 10.

This was a mighty fine home studio, too bad a few years later, the dongle, being the start up key to ProTools, failed and nobody could ever help me. Whatever I tried, I couldn't get the suystem up and running again.

So much for investing lots in home studio stuff.

Ever since I've used Audacity that, however less state-of-the-art than ProTools, is good enough for me nowadays. I don't play in bands anymore that need CD's to sell at gigs. So no need for recording big time.

What I could do with ProTools, this is what you get when leaving me alone with my instruments and the home studio (Back then, I wasn't into fiddle yet): DeepPurple in Bluegrass  After 0:45 things are picking up steam with even a hint of Earl...

NCnotes - Posted - 02/08/2023:  10:50:31

Well, I have now tinkered in both BandLab and GarageBand...both are easy to use and intuitive...my comparison...



BandLab -

Due to everything having to operate across the internet, I had issues with latency (delay in timing) and also the quality of the recording was not as good. I think this is due to having to "upstream" the content to Bandlab. Synchronizing multiple tracks was a nightmare unless you are a techie type who is willing to mathematically set the latency and is willing to delve into Support/Help to figure out your delay (it pings your computer and tells you what your latency is, and that kind of fixes it-but not perfectly). I did like the social/community aspects, i.e. hearing other people's music in your stream (very talented folks out there!!) and having other people listen to yours...



GarageBand-

Just as intuitive/easy as Bandlab, minus those pesky latency issues. I am running it on my desktop Mac, so now I lack the community to post/share music with, but for private messing around, it's fine! I am just scratching the surface of its capabilities, but it seems plenty good enough for an amateur!



As both of these platforms offer "free music mixing" I am quite satisfied...I know there are more sophisticated powerful DAWs out there which might actually cost a bit of $, but this is plenty good enough for somebody who just plays music for fun and has no ambitions :-)



For more ambitious musical types, they all seem to have SoundCloud accounts... i.e. "hit up my SoundCloud"! (For example Billie Eilish, JuiceWRLD, etc got 'found' via SoundCloud...)

Edited by - NCnotes on 02/08/2023 10:53:07

NCnotes - Posted - 02/08/2023:  10:55:58

Bruno, wow!
And it's classy and clean recording.

alaskafiddler - Posted - 02/08/2023:  20:12:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erockin

So, in a nut shell and go ahead and use whatever fancy terms you know,



How is bandlab and is it completely free? I use GarageBand exclusively for my home recordings and others that use GB, we were able to share files and collaborate that way. Really, as long as your sharing MP3s, any of it really works. But this BandLab intrigues me.

So if I create something on my own, I can drop it in BL for others to hear and record their part to? I'm inferencing here...lol



If anyone loves it, let me know. I'd love to share some tracks and collaborate for fun. I'm not ready to share my fiddle yet but there are certainly a plethora of awesome players on here.

---

There is a bit of comparing apples and oranges, mobile app vs desktop DAW; or that do different things... pros/cons depend on what want or need.

Band Lab is completely free, at least for basic use*.  I would not consider it a great DAW (esp compared to stand alone desktop full DAW)... but is pretty simple, esp for beginners, and does have some nice features. and would work for that purpose. But one advantage it has over other DAWs when comes to different types of collaboration, sharing with friends or in making public (kind of like Sound Cloud), and promoting your or your band. Has some other management tools creating bands or groups, with auto access projects between members. (*there are some extra options can pay for, packs, promotion).

As a browser based, nothing to really install, just create an account, and can run from any browser. As mobile app, similar but have to download the app from app store. Stores audio files on cloud. (can make public or private); and thus can open projects between devices, or on others computers. But as cloud based, compared to a desktop standalone DAW, it can run into issue with latency, tracks not aligning; but can be fixed by simply dragging. I notice happens less with mobile devices (using cell towers rather than ISP; esp fast with 5G). 

So if I create something on my own, I can drop it in BL for others to hear and record their part to? I'm inferencing here...lol

Yes, that is an option, one of the features. With that can, do so by private invite only, say your bandmates or friends, or more public by sending the link/key. They have access to each previous track, to mix, edit, even delete (so some caution, but can go back to previous revisions); but can be good for band to remotely give ideas of mix/arrangement. On FHO we did some of that, playing with Christmas songs, folks can still play with those.

If anyone loves it, let me know. I'd love to share some tracks and collaborate for fun. I'm not ready to share my fiddle yet but there are certainly a plethora of awesome players on here.

I'm in, just set up a BL account. Free to try. Might suggest a project, you record a guitar and vocal tracks, leave room for break;  then send me link and I'll add a fiddle, or banjo, or elec guitar idea, (or multiple ideas to choose); or can send a open link to FHO members. Or vice versa, I can lay down some foundation rhythm tracks first.

But another an interesting unique feature in BL is the ability to record some tracks, and then what they call allow "fork"; which opens up to any other BL user, giving free permission and ability to use your original tracks and create their own ideas from that, add parts, delete or modify... change radically. It doesn't affect your original at all, but as new project. I was doing some of that, with a mando player who forked some projects... I added my own idea of fiddle part. Somebody else, took it and used some of it for some LoFi or Hip-Hop thing, quite different, and funny.

------------

That said, if just doing recordings for yourself at home... might not be best option, and is not my goto; a desktop DAW has more advantages (esp with latency issues). Although one bonus of BL it is easy for beginners, and can use phone, using the phone mic (or plug-in mic to phone). Similar to GarageBand and some others make phone apps versions. (I notice CuBase has some now). Garage band mobile app also seems easy, I like the user interface; it seems easier for beginners than the desktop version, so might be good choice for some. It might not have as much issues with latency because it's storing the files on the phone; though can have it store files in your personal iCloud. Can open up projects between mobile and desktop GB (or Logic) easy if stored in iCloud. Though found out quickly it can fill it up basic cloud capacity Apple gives you (need to pay for more).

Like GB, BandLab does make a free open-source desktop/laptop computer full DAW... called Cakewalk (they took over from Sonar). It's pretty good. It does have a feature in the DAW to interact with the BandLab app; open projects from your BL account; and upload project direct to BL. But like GB only works on Mac, Cakewalk only works on Windows. Of course there are lots of other free or inexpensive DAWs, like Audacity, Studio One, Wave, or lots of folks like Reaper... these work on Mac, Windows and Linux.  Nothing wrong with Audacity, esp if just needing basic multi-tracks without much processing; but other DAWs can do that as well; but Audacity might seem easier, simple and easy to grasp without lot's of bells and whistles, controls getting in way.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 02/08/2023 20:22:16

Erockin - Posted - 02/09/2023:  04:13:45

Wow, sounds doable.

I'm upgrading my studio this Sunday to an Behringer 18-Xair which has me incredibly inspired. I love my current set up but I'm limited to 4 tracks at once and so with this I'll be at 16 simultaneous. More full band options and monitoring capabilities for sure.

I'm pretty fluent with a couple DAWs...GarageBand being my favorite due to simplicity purposes. I have a ton of content...Stand by.
Thanks for the replies!

DougD - Posted - 02/09/2023:  05:53:33

I looked at the 18-XAir - not much to see there, but I have gotten used to some of my engineers using their iPads to run their Behringer consoles, especially to mix stage monitors.
I wonder if you've looked at anything like this? sweetwater.com/store/detail/L1...-recorder
IIRC one of our members had one and was trying to figure it out, so I took a look and it looked like it could be handy for a lot of things. Only 8 channels though.