KarenLoving - Posted - 01/20/2019:  07:40:50

I would like jamming to be more comfortable for me and have been told learning the pentatonic scale would be helpful.

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/20/2019:  07:41:50

I see it is archived
fiddlehangout.com/archive/20637

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/20/2019:  13:47:53

How do I get to it? Thanks

Brian Wood - Posted - 01/20/2019:  14:46:39

I just clicked on your link and went there. Granted, the attachments didn't show up, but the posts are there. I didn't try to find the attachments but they may be there somewhere too.

Edited by - Brian Wood on 01/20/2019 14:47:10

Brian Wood - Posted - 01/20/2019:  15:26:24

It seems the original poster's account is locked. What is it you want to know about pentatonic scales exactly? For me, rather than a chart it is more useful to know what it sounds like. Once you hear it in your head you can start to play it in different keys. There are also different pent scales, but I'd just start with the major, unless you are playing blues in which case I'd start with the blues scale. I don't know what musical era you are from, but how I would describe the major pentatonic scale is to hum the instrumental riff to "My Girl" by The Temptations. The highest note in the run makes 6 notes, but that is because it is an octave, same as first note.

youtube.com/watch?v=swSytFVMHuU

Edited by - Brian Wood on 01/20/2019 15:27:33

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 01/20/2019:  15:42:09

And it will always be the same physical pattern under your fingers. If you start the pattern with your index finger on two strings you can use the pentatonic scale to play double stops in that key / chord. Have fun R/

Sam Shazaam - Posted - 01/20/2019:  16:17:40

Simplifying for Major keys use your standard 7 note scale but skip 4 and 7. For minor keys skip 2 and 6. If you use a 1-4 combination at the wrong time you will set up a dissonance or a "sour" note. I have been guilty of this many times. By eliminating this you are freed to experiment with jamming without so much of a down side. You may not hit the best note but you won't hit a really bad one. I practice pentatonic scales as part of my daily practice.

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/20/2019:  16:35:22

Thank you Sam. Very helpful.

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/20/2019:  16:37:36

quote:Originally posted by abinigiaIt seems the original poster's account is locked. What is it you want to know about pentatonic scales exactly? For me, rather than a chart it is more useful to know what it sounds like. Once you hear it in your head you can start to play it in different keys. There are also different pent scales, but I'd just start with the major, unless you are playing blues in which case I'd start with the blues scale. I don't know what musical era you are from, but how I would describe the major pentatonic scale is to hum the instrumental riff to "My Girl" by The Temptations. The highest note in the run makes 6 notes, but that is because it is an octave, same as first note.

Thank you Richard

youtube.com/watch?v=swSytFVMHuU

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/20/2019:  16:38:34

Thanks so much.

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 01/20/2019:  16:58:00

here's a chart

Mp in all keys

 

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/21/2019:  05:01:24

Thanks can you tell me a little about the chart, what the colors mean?

DougD - Posted - 01/21/2019:  08:51:29

I'm not sure what you're looking for here, but to play pentatonic scales you don't need any cheat sheets or complicated charts. I you don't know them already, first learn the major scales in the common fiddle keys - say C,G,D and A. You can also explore other keys for the style you're interested in - maybe F and Bb, and Bluegrass fiddlers pretty much need to know the key of B. Then learn the relative minors, at least Amin (from C major), Emin (from G), and Dmin (from F major), which are the same notes, but starting in a different place.
Pentatonic scales use only five notes, and I suppose it can be any five, but the most common are the major and minor scales. The major pentatonic uses the scale degrees 1,2,3,5 and 6. (As Sam put it, no 4 or 7) For the key of G this is G,A,B,D and E. The minor pentatonic scale (of the relative minor) uses the same notes, but starting on the last one. For Emin (relative minor of G major) this would be E,G,A,B and D. In terms of the degrees of the E minor scale this is 1,3,4,5 and 7, which is true for any minor scale. If you wanted the G minor pentatonic you would use the notes of the scale of the relative major (Bb) thus: G,Bb,C,D,F (still 1,3,4,5 and 7 of the G minor scale).
How useful this will be in a jam is unclear to me. Some people present pentatonics as some kind of "magic bullet" shortcut to playing without annoying learning. I'd say they're great for tunes that are pentatonic, and not so useful otherwise. A good example is "Oh! Susannah". The verse is a perfect example of a major pentatonic scale; in G - G,A,B,D,D,E,D,B etc., but when you get to the chorus the very first note, C (fourth scale degree), is not in the pentatonic scale.
Many people say that in learning tunes in a jam they first find a note or two here and there, then a phrase (especially one that recurs) and then fill in the rest. I think that's what I would do, and I wouldn"t think of pentatonics at all.
To get the feel of the sound of pentatonic tunes, "Amazing Grace" uses the major pentatonic scale, and "Wayfaring Stranger" uses the minor pentatonic.

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 01/21/2019:  08:59:52

The red numbers 1&5 are common to 95% of the scales that exist, only augmented or diminished varieties use #5 or b5 intervals. Because of this these two numbers tend to become anchor points with the other numbers moving around them to generate the other scales. So for example they are still in the same positions for the minor pentatonic, blues scale, Dorian, Aeolian etc.
This chart is like a SLIDE RULE giving the positions of the intervals all on one virtual fingerboard instead of twelve. I have uploaded a page showing the keys of A C and D to help in the visualization of this. I have my students take a blank piece of paper to cover up the keys above the one desired on the chart and then to imagine the red line I drew showing the imaginary nut.
I would advise learning one musical "figure" at a time in every key, for example 1 2-3 5 as in Elvis's song HOUNDOG. Practice this methodology and the patterns will become cemented in your mind. Feel free to ask questions, there's a lot of knowledgeable people on this site.

ACD

 

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/21/2019:  13:47:30

Thank you...I will try to figure it out...I appreciate your explanation.

caryravitz - Posted - 01/21/2019:  15:21:28

My chord and pentatonic scale PDF.

penta.pdf

 

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 01/21/2019:  16:21:37

quote:

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Originally posted by caryravitz

My chord and pentatonic scale PDF.

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 Nice chart Cory,it would be especially helpful for people venturing into jamming.

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/21/2019:  16:39:30

Thanks Corey

buckhenry - Posted - 01/21/2019:  17:45:12

Jamming with fiddle tunes, pentatonics are a good place to start, but most tunes will use the 4th note and the 7th, so you will need to include them eventually, and that's only in the major key where the notes will be 1 2 3 5 6. In the minor key the notes will be 1 b3 4 5 b7. Again, include the skipped notes when able or needed. If you are jamming with singer/guitarists, you may leave out the skipped notes (4th & 7th major key or 2nd & 6th minor key ) entirely , but if you wish to play the melody the missing notes maybe required. Usually you can play only the notes of these pentatonic scales to add harmonic improvisation to the entire song, but this may depend on the chord progression. If you happen to play a ''forbidden note'', just pass it quickly by playing the note next to it. When you become skilled with playing pentatonics each chord can have it's own scale. Scales can also be substituted to include ''colour note''.

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/21/2019:  18:23:19

Thanks. Good info

DougD - Posted - 01/21/2019:  19:49:36

BTW, if you want to start practicing you can play the two songs I mentioned, using the G major and E minor pentatonic scales, with just two fingers - 1 and 3. Doesn't get much simpler than that!

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/22/2019:  03:30:23

Great! The instrument is so challenging for me, and I want to just feel like I'm part of the jam; i didn't realize it was such a leading instrument, some times I like to just take my tenor guitar and sit in the back and boom chuck!!

Thanks again!

Karen

DougD - Posted - 01/22/2019:  04:44:51

Nothing wrong with that. Traditionally, many, many fiddlers (myself included) learned by accompanying other fiddlers on guitar or banjo.
Today, you can record the session with a small recorder and work on the tunes later, maybe with the help of speed slow-down programs.

KarenLoving - Posted - 01/22/2019:  05:28:32

Yes I use the slow down app. It helps. Thank you.

tarheel - Posted - 02/23/2019:  18:39:12

a pentatonic scale is just a easy way to work with in a scale when you dont know the tune, in types of music where you might be asked to take a break. Pentatonic means a five note scale. Learn for the key you are in and you will be more or less be safe playing those notes while you are in that Key. It will sound better if you canplay the pent. scale of each cord as the tune progresses. Even better is to learn the "blues" pent which often flats the third and seventh. This gives you the option of sounding "sad" or "edgy" or "blue" depending on the tune. There are tunes that use the blues pent. while the rythm section plays major cords. A couple examples, All The Good Times, and Clinch Mt. Backstep. All The G.T. in B try stopping the B and F# with the first finger. Work around that finding the melody notes with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th fingers. Slide into notes to find the sound. Try Clinch mt bkstp. by matching the 3rd finger at E on the 2nd string to match the open E. (this is also a great way to get used to playing 2nd position. ) This will put you in the key of A. practice finging the simple melody notes, and with a little practice you will be able to play certain tunes inB, F, Bb, G, et with practically the same concept. Take it one tune at a time, lot easier than it sounds. W.S.

Edited by - tarheel on 02/23/2019 18:49:29

Dick Hauser - Posted - 06/07/2019:  08:07:14

Banjoists use the minor pentatonic scales to get a "bluesy" sound. It can be used for certain sounding tunes and phrases. Tunes like "Clinch Mtn Backstep" and "Man of Constant Sorrow" just about demand use of this scale. Use of the minor pentatonic scale provides big rewards for little work.

I understand the 5 note construct of pentatonic major and minor scales. And I think I know why the major pentatonic scale is used. But if a person can improvise using the full chromatic scale, why would they resort to using the major pentatonic scale ? Doesn't eliminating notes reduce the identifiable of a melody ?