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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/4977
alexxman - Posted - 09/20/2008: 19:07:51
My band plays a lot of "non fiddle" music. In other words there has never been a fiddle part written for it. Is there a way that I can "jump in" and play with them? Right now I play by ear but I was wondering if there were some kind of Pentatonic notes for a specific key that always go together. If these notes exist, what are they? And is there a rule to follow when changing keys?
Edited by - alexxman on 09/20/2008 19:09:24
bj - Posted - 09/20/2008: 19:18:00
I play often with a friend who writes her own music. She has a habit of springing brand new songs on me when we're out playing in public.
What I do is do a kind of percussive thing with the bow long enough to catch the chord progression. Once you've got the chord progression you can "jump in" and at least play some simple accompaniment.
It might help to look at the fiddle part as harmony for the vocalist, if you're playing behind one. You never want to step on the vocal, you want to "enhance" it, and fiddle is enough like the human voice that you can do that with a tasty harmony line. Another thing you can do is mimic the melody after the vocalist, as if you're talking to each other.
I tend to keep things pretty simple, but then I've only been playing a year. Suze and I always get compliments and people tell us how well matched we are, so I must be doing something right. And the one thing she's done is keep her new tunes to keys that are easy to play on fiddle so . . . it works.
I hope that helps you.
^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^
Me on the Web --
http://doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh14633812588807237
alexxman - Posted - 09/21/2008: 04:57:30
Thanks, That answers my question to an extent. But is there any rule that you know of for specific notes? Right now I play both the Harmony and Melody, it just depends on the song.
bj - Posted - 09/21/2008: 05:18:27
I'm more an action than a theory person, I'm sure someone who is into theory can answer that more specifically.
If you're staying to notes within the chord being played you can't go far wrong. Some folks use Mando chord charts and translate them to fiddle, though you are talking two string chords instead of 4 pairs.
^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^
Me on the Web --
http://doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh14633812588807237
Dick Hauser - Posted - 09/21/2008: 07:32:34
As far as I know, the pentatonic scale consist of 5 notes from the regular scale. The 2 notes that might cause dissonance (the 3rd and 7th notes of the scale) aren't used. If you use extensions to the regular major chord(s), this scale makes playing easier. But, if you are just using major chords I haven't yet figured out how using this scale will help. I can see where the pentatonic scale would be useful for jazz, swing, and some "Texas Style" tunes. But like I said, I would appreciate learning how it could benefit someone playing "mainline" fiddle tunes. Fiddlemember Fiddlerdi onced mentioned a book that has information on this subject. She wrote that she is using this book with her fiddle students.
The book is a Mel Bay publication titled "HOKUM: Theory and Scales for Fiddle Tunes and Fiddle Improvisation". I bought the book some years ago and it is interesting reading.
gulfguy
bsed - Posted - 09/21/2008: 09:41:28
Well, I don't know much about pentatonic harmony or even music theory in general. It just was never my strong suit. However, the most valuable advice I was ever given was "If you can sing it, you can play it". I fall back on this a LOT. Like if somebody strikes up a tune that I can't catch the melody to (this happens a lot with banjo players), I'm often at a loss as to what to do until suddenly I hear someone singing verses to this melody. Ahhh! Now it all makes sense! I can even hear a clear chord progression. Life is good.
So sing it. Find your own voice if you have to.
Just call me Dwight.
alexxman - Posted - 09/21/2008: 10:05:56
Thanks bj, Gulfguy and dwight. You all have answered my question. I will look into that book and maybe I can find it. Thanks again..
coelhoe - Posted - 09/21/2008: 14:01:39
There have been a couple of good threads concerning backing up singers that might be useful for you. Also the thread on playing "Amarillo By Morning" which has a lovely intro and break that has little to do with the melody. Just listen to any fiddle back up of a country singer, staring with Hank Williams.
Dennis
"Not being able to play very well is a good substitute for not having good taste." -Eddie Adcock
alexxman - Posted - 09/21/2008: 14:35:10
Thanks, I will look into that. I have another Question now. I learned to play the violin through a classical book. Susuki books 1 and 2. I want to learn some fiddling techniques as in double strings and bowing techniques. Does anyone have any idea?
bj - Posted - 09/21/2008: 19:30:45
quote:
I want to learn some fiddling techniques as in double strings and bowing techniques. Does anyone have any idea?
Edited by - bj on 09/21/2008 19:31:06
BanjoBrad - Posted - 09/21/2008: 19:58:19
quote:
Originally posted by bjquote:
I want to learn some fiddling techniques as in double strings and bowing techniques. Does anyone have any idea?
Find the nearest oldtime jam and jump in with both feet. :-)
^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^
Me on the Web --
http://doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh14633812588807237
bj - Posted - 09/21/2008: 20:25:46
And figure your first one you'll only get one note out of 8 . . .
^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^
Me on the Web --
http://doneinstyle.com
My inspiration:
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh14633812588807237
Dick Hauser - Posted - 09/22/2008: 09:27:49
If there is one thing I know a lot about, it is fiddle books. Here are some excellent fiddle books -
Beginner/Intermediate - Brian Wicklund's "American Fiddle Method", book/CD. Popular tunes you will encounter in jams.
Beginner/Intermediate/AdvancedIntermediate - "Fiddler's Fakebook". A "must have" book for most fiddlers. Contains full notation for different fiddling styles. LOTS of tunes.
Intermediate/Intermediate Advanced - "The Craig Duncan Master Fiddle Solo Collection". Excellent book with several variations for lots of commonly played tunes. This book is better than just about all the fiddle books I have.
Intermediate - "Getting Into Fiddling" Mel Bay Publication. Mel Bay says that this book/CD is written specifically for violinists who want to start learning fiddle tunes. Frankly speaking, I consider the "Craig Duncan Master Fiddle Solo Collection" and much better choice. This book has a section on Irish fiddling. I did not like the notation for the Irish tunes, especially the ornamentation.
To learn to play fiddle tunes, you will have to start listening to CD's. In addition, there are quite a few tunes online. When learning a new tune, I often start by checking Youtube.
David Reiner posted an excellent article on bowing techniques. Listmember "Fiddlepogo" is especially interested in bowing techniques and can probably point you toward to good info. You can learn a lot of tunes and quite a bit about some fiddling styles from books, CDs, and DVD's. Other fiddling styles, like "old time" fiddle music played by bands like the "Fuzzy Mountain String Band", require that you listen to a lot of music, start interacting with other people playing that music, and spend a lot of time learning to play by ear. Actually, the part about learning to play by ear applies to all fiddle styles, but I think it is a more critical ingredient in learning "old time" style fiddling.
gulfguy
rastewart - Posted - 09/22/2008: 09:47:32
quote:
Originally posted by bj
And figure your first one you'll only get one note out of 8 . . .
FiddleJammer - Posted - 09/22/2008: 09:58:45
If you know the key of the tune, you can just chop some rhythm on that note. That'll get you at least one note out of 8, probably many more. :-)
Get a little fancier by finding the 1 and 5 notes of the scale for some double stops, eg.
D and A in the key of D
G and D in the key of G
A and E in the key of A
Notice a pattern?
Cheers,
Terri
tunelist, musings, and podcasts at
http://fiddlejammer.blogspot.com
bj - Posted - 09/22/2008: 10:08:24
quote:
Get a little fancier by finding the 1 and 5 notes of the scale for some double stops, eg.
D and A in the key of D
G and D in the key of G
A and E in the key of A
Sue B. - Posted - 09/24/2008: 12:02:26
There are some nice teaching DVD's by Bruce Molsky & Brad Leftwich, and a fun CD by Matt Brown.
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