soppinthegravy - Posted - 10/03/2017:  22:56:42

Does anyone know the origins of the tune Bill Cheatham? I know Eck Robertson was the first to record it.

ChickenMan - Posted - 10/04/2017:  09:57:44

All I know is, every banjo player I know loves to play it so much I assumed it was a banjo tune.

Dick Hauser - Posted - 10/05/2017:  05:57:08

Go to the "Fiddler's Companion" website and check the tune out. It says the tune probably originated in the southeastern part of the U.S.. I don't know if it was named after him, but there was a confederate general with that name. I have seen the last name spelled several different ways.

DougD - Posted - 10/05/2017:  06:42:46

Actually the Fiddler's Companion is not very helpful for this tune. It says that Eck Robertson recorded it in 1922, which is true (as "Brilliancy and cheatum") but it wasn't released. He recorded it again as part of the "Brilliancy Medley" in 1929, and that's the recording we know. I wonder if the earlier one was different.

Paul Gifford - Posted - 10/05/2017:  10:12:21

The earliest record of a tune with that name that I have came from a 1901 newspaper story on a fiddlers contest in Kentucky that mentioned a tune "Billy Cheatham." Turns out at that time that one of the leading black vaudeville performers (or minstrels) was named Billy Cheatham, a member of the Cheatham Brothers' Black Diamond Minstrels. Seems reasonable that this person would be the namesake of the tune. Whether the tune originated in the southeastern part of the country or not would be hard to say----it seems like it has been well recorded and spread mostly that way.

soppinthegravy - Posted - 10/05/2017:  23:52:42

That's Benjamin Franklin "Frank" Cheatham. There is a tune called Frank Cheatham. B.F. Cheatham had a cousin, William Archer Cheatham. Kirk McGee played both tunes, Bill Cheatham, and Frank Cheatham, which he said was "Bill Cheatham's brother". Maybe this was a joke. Although they were both Tennesseans B.F. and W.A. Cheatham were not brothers, and they were from different regions of the state. I'm not a Civil War buff, just a Tennessee string-band history buff. I've attached Kirk McGee's versions of both tunes in case you want to compare them.  

quote:

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Originally posted by Dick Hauser

I don't know if it was named after him, but there was a confederate general with that name. I have seen the last name spelled several different ways.

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Edited by - soppinthegravy on 10/05/2017 23:53:18

Bill Cheatham

Frank Cheatham

soppinthegravy - Posted - 10/05/2017:  23:55:06

I agree with you on that. I haven't studied the minstrel stuff much. Does it sound like a minstrel tune to y'all?

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Gifford

The earliest record of a tune with that name that I have came from a 1901 newspaper story on a fiddlers contest in Kentucky that mentioned a tune "Billy Cheatham." Turns out at that time that one of the leading black vaudeville performers (or minstrels) was named Billy Cheatham, a member of the Cheatham Brothers' Black Diamond Minstrels. Seems reasonable that this person would be the namesake of the tune. Whether the tune originated in the southeastern part of the country or not would be hard to say----it seems like it has been well recorded and spread mostly that way.

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martynspeck - Posted - 10/06/2017:  07:29:20

I found a transcription from a recording by Henry Reed here: loc.gov/resource/afcreed.reedt053/

Reed's dates are 1884 - 1968. The transcription appears to have been done in the 60s but there's no information of when the recording was made or where Reed got the tune.

soppinthegravy - Posted - 10/06/2017:  08:18:08

Joe Mangrum from Dresden,  TN was born in 1854 and recorded the tune in 1928. 

jefferylong - Posted - 10/10/2017:  21:20:23

Do you know of any other recordings of Joe Mangrum? Dresden is just down the road from me. 🤓

jefferylong - Posted - 10/10/2017:  21:25:49

soppinthegravy i would be very interested in finding names, recordings, or any data for that matter of any other early West Tennessee fiddlers you might know of.

soppinthegravy - Posted - 10/11/2017:  12:10:35

Yeah. He recorded Bill Cheatham and Bacon and Cabbage, which Charles Wolfe considered a souped up version of Katy Hill. He lived in Hopkinsville, KY, so he's normally associated with that state, but he grew up in Dresden, TN. He also recorded Mammoth Cave Waltz and Rose Waltz, but I've never been able to find them. Here are YouTube links to the two I have been able to find.

Bill Cheatham

youtube.com/watch?v=lWZNmAcLU5Q

Bacon and Cabbage

youtube.com/watch?v=E0xUdN-iroc  

quote:

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Originally posted by jefferylong

Do you know of any other recordings of Joe Mangrum? Dresden is just down the road from me. 🤓

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soppinthegravy - Posted - 10/11/2017:  12:28:53

The Weems String Band was from West Tennessee, so add these fiddlers' names to your list. youtube.com/watch?v=LvcpGk5cwTw

• Dick Weems


• Frank Weems

They only made two recordings in the studio, but the folks at the MTSU Center for Popular Music recently found a bunch of home recordings of the Weems family. I haven't been able to convince them to put those out on CD, sadly.

I know of several more, but I'm sure the Jackson Area Plectral Society already knows about them, because they are on the Littlejohn Sessions Vol. 1 album, which I discovered on their website.

• Conn Crotts


• Lee Littlejohn


• Stanton Littlejohn


• Arnold English


• Elvis Black


• Ernest Whitten


• Charlie Cox


• Virgil Murray


• The fiddler for The Walker Band

If you want to know more about those guys, talk to Wayne Jerrolds who used to play with Bill Monroe. He's the one who runs the Bluegrass festival in Savannah, TN. I'm sure you've seen him. He has a particularly funny story about Elvis Black pulling a prank on somebody.

quote:

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Originally posted by jefferylong

soppinthegravy i would be very interested in finding names, recordings, or any data for that matter of any other early West Tennessee fiddlers you might know of.

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jefferylong - Posted - 10/11/2017:  20:00:34

soppinthegravy you seem to be very well versed in West Tennessee fiddleology? Where are you located? I know Wayne Jerrolds very well . . . have played with him on a number of occasions. Excellent fiddler and a gentleman.
Funny you should mention the Plectral Society . . . I am the paterfamilias … wrote the constitution & bylaws for the club, and published the website. Marjorie Littlejohn Richard is the daughter of Stanton Littlejohn. She gave me a copy of the recordings I uploaded to the Plectral Website. She and her husband Don are also charter members of the Plectral Society.
I would like to do more publishing Oldtime Music in West Tennessee … I think it would be a great project to put all the great West Tennessee Oldtime musicians together in one place so others could listen & read more about them.
Thanks for your help. I’m always interested in Oldtime Music and particularly the history in West Tennessee.

soppinthegravy - Posted - 10/11/2017:  22:06:21

I'm near the the center of the state. I don't list my name on here, but you and I are Facebook friends and in some groups together. Most of what I know about West TN fiddle is from that album. When can we expect Volume 2? :) My specialty is Middle TN, which is where I'm from. I'm really more of a banjo guy, but I've been studying fiddle a lot over the past few years. I don't know if there are any regional styles or not. I think, musically, it's just one big Tennessee, but I may be wrong. You've had more time to meet and talk with people than I have. 

quote:

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Originally posted by jefferylong

soppinthegravy you seem to be very well versed in West Tennessee fiddleology? Where are you located? I know Wayne Jerrolds very well . . . have played with him on a number of occasions. Excellent fiddler and a gentleman.

Funny you should mention the Plectral Society . . . I am the paterfamilias … wrote the constitution & bylaws for the club, and published the website. Marjorie Littlejohn Richard is the daughter of Stanton Littlejohn. She gave me a copy of the recordings I uploaded to the Plectral Website. She and her husband Don are also charter members of the Plectral Society.

I would like to do more publishing Oldtime Music in West Tennessee … I think it would be a great project to put all the great West Tennessee Oldtime musicians together in one place so others could listen & read more about them.

Thanks for your help. I’m always interested in Oldtime Music and particularly the history in West Tennessee.

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Edited by - soppinthegravy on 10/11/2017 22:07:22