soppinthegravy - Posted - 12/15/2016:  16:38:45

Does anybody know where the tune "Squirrel Hunters" originated? 

gapbob - Posted - 12/15/2016:  18:20:12

The short answer is "no."

The long answer is here.

Reading Shelby Foote's "The Civil War," evidently when the soldiers were out looking for pickets to kill, they called it "squirrel hunting," so my guess is that the tune name comes from around the Civil War.

Shawn Craver - Posted - 12/15/2016:  20:51:48

It's an Allegheny tune. From Western Pa down the Spine of the mountains into WV. The Squirrel Hunter title came from Pennsylvania fiddlers and fifers and it is said that the Squirrel Hunter's were a group of woodsmen who helped ward off the Confederates in Ohio. In WV it's called Dan Friend's Piece (French Carpenter) (Dan Friend was a relative of mine ) or Rainy Day (Melvin Wine). It came into the urban oldtime and bluegrass scene through John Hartford but was played here and there before that. The WV versions are easy to find and listen to. You'll really have to dig for the Penn. recordings. . Since I play mainly tunes from the region it's nice this one is getting out there  

Other mid-appalachian tunes are popping up more and more due to the recordings slowly making it out into the world.

Edited by - Shawn Craver on 12/15/2016 20:54:12

soppinthegravy - Posted - 12/15/2016:  22:03:21

I've heard Ernie Capenter play it. Where can I hear French play it?

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Originally posted by Shawn Craver

 

It's an Allegheny tune. From Western Pa down the Spine of the mountains into WV. The Squirrel Hunter title came from Pennsylvania fiddlers and fifers and it is said that the Squirrel Hunter's were a group of woodsmen who helped ward off the Confederates in Ohio. In WV it's called Dan Friend's Piece (French Carpenter) (Dan Friend was a relative of mine ) or Rainy Day (Melvin Wine). It came into the urban oldtime and bluegrass scene through John Hartford but was played here and there before that. The WV versions are easy to find and listen to. You'll really have to dig for the Penn. recordings. . Since I play mainly tunes from the region it's nice this one is getting out there  

Other mid-appalachian tunes are popping up more and more due to the recordings slowly making it out into the world.

---

Mark Ralston - Posted - 12/16/2016:  03:52:58

FYI, here's a thread with some info on the tune that I posted on FB:  facebook.com/mark.ralston.750/...964264943

jefferylong - Posted - 12/16/2016:  05:42:55

From Fiddlers Companion:
SQUIRREL HUNTERS, THE. AKA ‑ "Squirrel Hunting." AKA and see "The Bell Cow [2]" (Pa.), "Dilly's Favorite" (Pa.), "Jenny Put the Kettle On (We'll All Take Tea) [3]" (Pa.), "N....r in/on the Woodpile [1]" (Pa.), "Old Common Time" (Pa.), "The Pennsylvania Quickstep [2]" (Pa.). American, March (2/4 time). USA, southwestern Pa. D Major. Standard tuning. AB. This tune was known in Pennsylvania primarily as a fife "stop‑beat" piece, though Bayard has identified it as a member of "one of the most widespread and ramifying of our British Isles melodic families." This very old tune family has innumberable variants and forms in most of the commonly used folk modes, in quick and slow tempi, and in 2/4, 4/4, 6/8, and 3/4 time, and all resembling each other to the extent that family traits are confirmed yet seemingly not enough to differentiate clear classes and subgroups. Bayard, arbitrarily he admits, has assigned the nomen "Welcome Home" to this family from one of its member Irish airs. He lists a few of the recurrent old‑country titles of members of this melodic complex: "The Oyster Wife's/Wives' Rant," "The Haughs of Cromdale," "Wate You How the Play Began," "The Hillside [2]," "Welcome Home [3]," and "(Fare Thee Well) Sweet Killaloe," and in his note to this tune he cites numerous other references. See also note for “Dan Friend’s Piece.” Sources for notated versions: nine southwestern Pa. fifers and fiddlers [Bayard]. Bayard (Dance to the Fiddle), 1981; No. 220A‑I, pgs. 174‑177. Rounder CD 0392, John Hartford - “Wild Hog in the Brush and a Bunch of Others You Might Not Have Heard” (1996).
X:1
T:Squirrel Hunters, The
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:175
S:John Hartford's "Wild Hog in the Redbrush" transcribed by Llarry Brandon
K:D
|:"4"e3d .B2 Bd|efed .B2 BA|GABc d2 dc|dBcA BcBA|!
"4"e3d .B2 Bd|efed .B2 BA|GABc d2 B2|1"4" A8:|2"4" A6|!
|:Bd|edeg a2ag|edef g2BA|GABc d2dc|dBcA BcBA|!
edeg abag|edef g2BA|GABc d2B2|1"4"A6:|2"4"A8|

Shawn Craver - Posted - 12/16/2016:  08:38:48

I think i got my Carpenters mixed up. It was Ernie. 

quote:

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Originally posted by soppinthegravy

 

I've heard Ernie Capenter play it. Where can I hear French play it?

---

Originally posted by Shawn Craver

 

It's an Allegheny tune. From Western Pa down the Spine of the mountains into WV. The Squirrel Hunter title came from Pennsylvania fiddlers and fifers and it is said that the Squirrel Hunter's were a group of woodsmen who helped ward off the Confederates in Ohio. In WV it's called Dan Friend's Piece (French Carpenter) (Dan Friend was a relative of mine ) or Rainy Day (Melvin Wine). It came into the urban oldtime and bluegrass scene through John Hartford but was played here and there before that. The WV versions are easy to find and listen to. You'll really have to dig for the Penn. recordings. . Since I play mainly tunes from the region it's nice this one is getting out there  

Other mid-appalachian tunes are popping up more and more due to the recordings slowly making it out into the world.

---

 

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Shawn Craver - Posted - 12/16/2016:  08:43:13

it's interesting to watch this tune as it enters the bluegrass realm. being changed around. these old tunes--one or two notes or chord selections can make big difference.

fiddlinsteudel - Posted - 12/16/2016:  08:55:18

It's a fun popular tune in the Seattle bluegrass jam scene. 

boxbow - Posted - 12/16/2016:  12:48:25

I had a guy get very stuffy about not playing it in the form truest to it's source.  Gee, I thought it was pretty fun to play until I realized the extent of the burden I owed future generations.  I was just playing it the way I was taught it, plus a little of whatever I did to it besides.  But the quote from "The Fiddler's Companion" has cleared it all up nicely.

soppinthegravy - Posted - 12/16/2016:  13:31:58

Here is a video of John playing and talking about the tune: youtube.com/watch?v=VjxfcQsrn9o

Edited by - soppinthegravy on 12/16/2016 13:34:01

abinigia - Posted - 12/16/2016:  13:58:04

I do it really wrong probably. But I've become fond of the chord changes on Adam Steffey's version. The 'A' part is in Em with a G and D. The 'B' part uses an A chord instead of Em but is otherwise the same. It really sends it off in the stratosphere someplace, even though it doesn't need that. It's a good tune however you play it.

DougD - Posted - 12/16/2016:  15:27:34

Shawn is quite correct that this is an Allegheny tune, and its been discussed here quite a few times. You can use the search function to find some of the old threads. It was collected in western Pennsylvania by Samuel Bayard (mostly as a fife tune) and included in his book Dance to the Fiddle, March to the Fife. John Hartford was a tune sleuth and Bayard fan, and I'm quite sure the version he played came from the book. Most current version with that title are probably derived from his playing and recording. Ernie Carpenter and Melvin Wine may well have played the same or a similar tune, but they called it by different names, so someone who learned it from them probably wouldn't call it "Squirrel Hunters."

I suppose anyone who hunts squirrels could be called a "squirrel hunter," and I wasn't familiar with the reference from Shelby Foote (thanks Bob), but the term was widely known from a particular incident in the Civil War. In the Fall of 1862 Confederate forces invaded Kentucky and captured Lexington, and it was feared they would attack Cincinnati, Ohio. General Lew Wallace was sent to defend the city, and the governor sent out a call for volunteers. In just a few days thousands of men appeared from the farms and small towns in the surrounding countryside, who became known as the "squirrel hunters." The threat quickly evaporated and they were sent home, but in 1863 a piece of music was published titled "The Squirrel Hunters March," but its not this tune. There's plenty of information about this, including the sheet music, available online if you're interested.

I've read that music for the fife is conventionally written in D major, regardless of the actual pitch of the instrument used. This tune uses the notes of that scale, but I don't think its in D, as the Fiddler's Companion says. I'd say E Dorian or A Mixolydian (or both) both of which use these same scale notes.

Shawn Craver - Posted - 12/16/2016:  18:14:09

I think it is holding up well in the bluegrass world.I think Bill Monnroe wouldve liked this old tune

soppinthegravy - Posted - 12/17/2016:  21:55:43

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 I actually think that using the Em in the A section sounds more traditional, at least for Southern Old-Time. The chord progression I like to use comes from the Vick family of Hickman County, TN. I think we use the same progression.

A: Em Em G G 

     Em Em G D

B: A A G G

     A A G D

 

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Originally posted by abinigia

 

I do it really wrong probably. But I've become fond of the chord changes on Adam Steffey's version. The 'A' part is in Em with a G and D. The 'B' part uses an A chord instead of Em but is otherwise the same. It really sends it off in the stratosphere someplace, even though it doesn't need that. It's a good tune however you play it.

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Edited by - soppinthegravy on 12/17/2016 22:02:57

EricBluegrassFiddle - Posted - 12/18/2016:  04:37:11

I'll be honest I actually never heard this fiddle tune in any Bluegrass jam circles not even once. First time I heard it was someone playing I believe a John Hartford version of it on you tube somewhere...and a while ago. Interesting background on the tune...I know quite a few old squirrel hunters back in Kentucky so it makes sense.

RobBob - Posted - 12/20/2016:  08:20:47

A fife tune from southwestern PA collected by the late great Dr Samuel Bayard, a fine gentleman and professor at Penn State.  He used to judge the state fiddle championship in State College until the late 70's when I was asked to take his place.  I was no where as knowledgeable as he about fiddle music but benefited from the opportunity.

The tune is in D but starts on the 2 of the scale placing it in E Dorian mode.  I like to use the chords Em, G, A in the A part and G and A in B part.  You will hear them and they work well with Maggie (or Meg) Gray as well.

Blu - Posted - 12/20/2016:  11:00:20

It appears that there are two schools of thought on the chord progression.  I have played guitar with an Am-G progression throughout, and also with the Em-G-A format that Bob provided.  I have noticed that some fiddlers play the second string C natural, some make it sharp, and some go back and forth between the C sharp and natural.  Perhaps the preference of the fiddler for C sharp or C natural determines whether to include A and D major chords.