Howler - Posted - 02/19/2016:  20:19:17

Just started playing - Got my violin yesterday. I've played guitar for 20 years, so I have pretty good dexterity in my left hand. However, I'm having a hard time hitting the middle 2 notes in the first position. I.e. the G# and A notes on the E string. If I just try to run down the notes - B, A, G#,  F# - My fingers hit the B and the F# perfectly fine. My fingers seem to be too big in that going from the A down to the G#, the G# can be a little flat, or the A can go a little sharp. Is there any trick to this? I can't seem to work it out. 

amwildman - Posted - 02/19/2016:  20:45:36

Contact point of the finger is different depending on each string and not played.  Whenever you play third finger, you should try to hit the string with the inner corner of your finger.  Not the pad, the tip.  This makes a huge difference. Your second finger should be closer to the middle of the finger (ish - it all depends on each individual's anatomy).  It is very possible, even for people with large hands to finger the notes successfully; some large individuals have been very proficient at the instrument.. 

amwildman - Posted - 02/19/2016:  20:45:59

And, by the way, give it more time - you've only been at it for 1 day!!!!!!

Chops Chomper - Posted - 02/19/2016:  20:53:20

Well you can't expect miracles over night. You play guitar right...how long did it take you to play guitar. Fiddle is the same way.

You have to learn. Practice your scales. Jerry

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 02/20/2016:  05:59:42

In fiddle you have low and high finger position for scale fingerboard placement. Because the scale is so short in comparison to a guitar the physical distance is quite short. And it gets shorter up the neck. So much so that your fingers will feel piled up on one another. Practice your scales with a tuner while you watch your left hand and see the physical spacing. Then quit looking and develop your muscle memory. But keep using your tuner so you can correct your finger placement as needed for the time being. Be patient ...... this is not a thing quickly learned. R/

Dan Gellert - Posted - 02/22/2016:  18:28:15

Some of the left hand skills you have acquired in playing guitar will prove useful on the violin, but others will in this new context present themselves as bad habits which you'll overcome through practice. It won't be nearly as steep a learning curve as it looks to you now, though.

It will be a real piece of cake compared the right hand.  Handling a fiddle bow has got to be one of the most logic-defying of human endeavors. Kung-fu with a side order of quantum mechanics.  

Howler - Posted - 02/24/2016:  08:57:27

Bowing is tough. Hah. My tendency seems to be to bow at a 45 degree angle to the strings, instead of perpendicular - So, I'm working hard to fight that habit. Left hand is improving slowly.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 02/24/2016:  10:18:43

It seems to be a natural tendency to slide the bow out toward you as you down bow, but for me it's been helpful to think of it as drawing the bow...draw and point the hand toward the floor.  But I've noticed a lot of good Fiddler's with experience often let that bow slide backwards as they pull it down...so...maybe it's not too bad a thing to worry about.

EricBluegrassFiddle - Posted - 02/25/2016:  03:50:31

The left hand position would be extremely difficult for a guitarist making the switch to fiddle....it takes time and feels really awkward at first. With most fiddlers its the tendenecy to flatten or even bow out the wrist that will be a bigger problem. Also "flying pinky" unless your lucky. Just sounds like some simple left hand positioning and intonation work. You have to 'tune" your fingers into the right spot on each string by ear. Play over drones and just play scales and arpeggios.....its the best way. Im still working at it and been at this 2 years now this month

EricBluegrassFiddle - Posted - 02/25/2016:  03:53:04

The bowing issue is because you havent learned yet the mechanics of good bowing, namely: flexinble wrist and fingers working together with pulling from the elbow mostly, not the shoulder, to bow straight. Watch mark oconners wrist bowing excercise. Really helped me, as well as colle excercises

boxbow - Posted - 02/25/2016:  06:03:46

The harder you press the string to the fingerboard, which is an easy way to clear up tone, the wider your finger gets.  What is much harder is to get the tone you desire with a much lighter left hand.  Less noting pressure, narrower fingertip, more options.  A useful experiment is to play long bows (another useful training exercise in itself) with lighter and lighter noting (LH) pressure until you find where it becomes unmanageable.  Then learn how to manage it anyway.  The answer will lie in your bowing hand.  Oh, Noo-o-o Mr. Bill!  You should be able to get a recognizable sound without pressing the string fully to the fingerboard, and even without the pad of your finger touching as it deforms around the string.  Somewhere between strangling the neck and the whole feather light thing is where you need to be to make actual music, and it will vary depending on the sound qualities you're fishing for.  Once in a while it will all work by accident and then you'll go crazy trying to duplicate whatever just happened.  You'll acquire a suite of sounds that you're comfy with and you won't have to think about it to use them.

No frets, baby.

Anyway, that's it for the rest of your life.  Have fun.  Not quite kidding.

Lee M - Posted - 02/25/2016:  12:50:29

Just a fun 'heads up'... Fingering gets more interesting as you go along.  Depending on where the NEXT note played is, you may have to play a note on a string with the side of the finger pad so as to not mute an adjacent string.. It will become automatic and is really not all that difficult but academically, it is interesting.  Enjoy.  

Howler - Posted - 03/03/2016:  09:28:53

This seems like such a great community. Plenty of great advice and no one called me any names! This is not the internet I'm familiar with.

So, today is 2 weeks with the violin. I've been using a tuner while I practice to make sure I'm really nailing the notes. I will take note of finger pressure now, as mentioned by boxbow. I've been focusing on the "1st position" notes (Is that a universal term? I've seen a couple websites use it.) I've been playing those notes in order, ascending and descending, and just goofing around trying to improvise melodies. Basically my focus has been bowing correctly, and accurate intonation - But, I haven't been learning any scales or songs (besides twinkle twinkle, little star, of course).

As a guitar player, I love improv soloing. I don't do it often because I'm primarily a singer/songwriter, but when I get the chance to play with a band, improv is what I enjoy most. I can't wait to get to that point on the violin. As a folk songwriter, it's hard to beat the guitar as a primary writing instrument. I've always listened to music with violins, but I've been listening to a lot more music that focuses on the violin. Maybe I'm just desensitized to guitar solos, or that violin is new to me, but right now I feel like the violin is much more expressive than the guitar for lead playing. By the way, any recommendations for players to watch? For technique, for innovation, for fun?

So, my next learning question: Now that I can hit the first position notes with varying degrees of accuracy, and I'm slightly more proficient at bowing, what do I focus on from here? Scales? Songs? Something else?

Oh, and I saw these frettedfiddle.com/p/shop.html and I can't figure out why the notes are spaced so nicely, when it doesn't seem to operate that way when people use tape to mark position, or just by ear, some notes are closer together than others, right?


I appreciate your help!

quietglow - Posted - 03/03/2016:  09:59:26

I'd find yourself a fiddle tune you like and learn it. Rise and repeat!

martynspeck - Posted - 03/03/2016:  09:59:47

Learn some tunes! That's when it gets fun!

We have a number of threads about which tunes to start with. This list isn't bad:

Bile Them Cabbage Down A

Angeline the Baker D

Old Joe Clark A

Soldier's Joy D

Westphalia Waltz G

Howler - Posted - 03/03/2016:  11:05:38

And, most importantly, I'm from Indiana. Violin or fiddle?

timmyc - Posted - 03/03/2016:  13:21:33

What does your question mean?

Lee M - Posted - 03/03/2016:  14:09:01

quote:

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Originally posted by Howler

 

And, most importantly, I'm from Indiana. Violin or fiddle?

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Northern Indiana = Violin,  Southern Indiana = Fiddle..  

martynspeck - Posted - 03/03/2016:  14:37:10

It's a fiddle if you're fiddling.

It's a violin if you're violining.