fiddlepogo - Posted - 05/16/2015:  20:08:01

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I realized I probably need to learn some more waltzes, but I don't DO the higher positions, and I think the more complicated waltzes sail right past a lot of ordinary folks anyway.  I'm really not a waltz fiddler per se, but my audiences enjoy them.  I think I need some more variety, though.

So I'm wanting some suggestions on waltzes up to intermediate level.  If they are well known, or have some kind of significant historical connection, that would be good too.  Connections could include being connected with a well known movie, or having been a radio hit, all the way back to the 1930's.

I already do:

Country Waltz,

Peeler Creek Waltz,

Cowboy (aka Wednesday Night) Waltz,

Westphalia Waltz,

Mockingbird Hill.

Tennessee Waltz, of course.

Tombigbee Waltz

Midnight on the Water.

Ashokan Farewell ( I don't know if it's considered a waltz, but it's in 3/4 time, and I know it.)

Norwegian Wood (Beatles)

You've Got To Hide Your Love Away (Beatles)

Already on to learn list:

Missouri Waltz, &

Over the Waves.

Anything else?

(Because the first post is editable, I'm going to keep the complete list of what we have in the thread so far HERE:)

""Always" (Irving Berlin)   youtube.com/watch?v=I1N1eTQNCk0 Amelia's Waltz (Bob McQuillen) youtube.com/watch?v=56iWmZcsne4 Anniversary Waltz (Waves of the Danube) youtube.com/watch?v=zmvXB-FzNO8 April Waltz (Calvin Vollrath) youtube.com/watch?v=t2loTySpLlk"> youtube.com/watch?v=I1N1eTQNCk0

Amelia's Waltz    (Bob McQuillen)        youtube.com/watch?v=56iWmZcsne4

Anniversary Waltz (Waves of the Danube)    youtube.com/watch?v=zmvXB-FzNO8

April Waltz (Calvin Vollrath) youtube.com/watch?v=t2loTySpLlk

A Riverboat's Gone (April Verch)

Ash Grove

Baby's in Black

Bill Powell's Waltz

Black Hawk Waltz

Black Velvet Waltz

Blue River Waltz

Blue Violet Waltz

Bluesette (a bluesy musette)

Boardinghouse Bells Are Ringing (C)

Cabri Waltz

Chapel Hill Serenade (D?)

Cornflower Waltz

Crying Waltz

Cuckoo Waltz

Death Valley Waltz (G)

Evening Star Waltz (D & A , I think)

Festival Waltz (Kenny Baker)

Florence Killen's Waltz

Fifty Year's Ago

Flying Indian Waltz (D)

Gardenia Waltz

General Lee's Surrender

German Waltz

Good Neighbor Waltz

Goodnight Waltz

Great Dream From Heaven

Great Wall of China

Green River Waltz (G)

Green Valley Waltz (D)

I May Not Be A Stranger

Jack O' Diamonds

John MacDonald's Waltz (Graham Townsend

Josefins Dopvals (F)

Julia's Waltz (Jeff Kaufman)

Kelly's Waltz

Kentucky Waltz (D)

Kiss Me Again (G)

Kitty Waltz

La Golondrina

Leland Waltz (A)

Lover's Waltz

Lucinda Waltz

Margaret's Waltz

Martin Waltz

Memory Waltz

Mexicali Rose

Mephisto Waltz

Midwinter Waltz (D?)

Mississippi River Waltz (G)

Mom and Dad Waltz

Moon River (G)

Mr. Fisher's Old German Waltz (G)

My Own Home Waltz

Norwegian Waltz (Interlake Waltz)

Old Madeira Waltz

Ookpik Waltz (G)

Ore Vals (G)

Over the Waves (G)

Peek-a-Boo Waltz (D)

Poor Girl Waltz

Ranger's Waltz

Red Fox Waltz (D)

River John Sunset

Rose of Sharon (J.S.Skinner)

Roxanna Waltz  (Bill Monroe)

Rusty Mill Waltz (G)

Salyer's Waltz    (D)

Shall we Dance (The King and I)

Shepherd's Waltz

Skater's Waltz

Snow Waltz

Spanish Fandango

Stepladder Waltz (Stegen Vals) (D)

Storms Are on the Ocean (D)

Swannoa Waltz

Sweet Bunch of Daisies (classic tune)

Three O'Clock in the Morning

The Umbrella Man.

The Waltz I Saved For You.

Two Rivers Waltz

Waltz Across Texas

Waltz For Little Girls

Wunderbar (Kiss me Kate))

We're up to 88 so far!

(Sorry, Für Elise and Star Spangled Banner may be in 3/4, but I can't think of them as waltzes)

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Edited by - fiddlepogo on 05/28/2015 12:55:21

Fiddler - Posted - 05/16/2015:  20:40:14

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Michael, You've got a good start. Here are some other easy ones in first position. They have been popular with the seniors that I have played for 

Mississippi River Waltz (D)

Green Valley Waltz (G)

Storms Are on the Ocean (D) - Carter Family - similar melody to Green Valley Waltz

Green River Waltz (G)

Sobre las Olas or Over the Waves (G) - Mexican waltz by Rosas (think "circus") -- but you mentioned this one.

Kiss Me Again (G) - (Victor Herbert composition - I got it through Taylor McBaine)

Red Fox Waltz (D) (Cyril Stinnett shifted for the high part, but many play it without shifting.)

Rose of Sharon (J.S.Skinner)

Pee-a-Boo Waltz (D)

 

Good luck!

 

chaddeerhunts - Posted - 05/17/2015:  00:59:29

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Another couple of good, yet easy waltzes are Black Velvet Waltz, Norwegian Waltz (aka Interlake Waltz) and Ash Grove.

Swing - Posted - 05/17/2015:  04:20:14

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Pogo you are in sunny California... learn Death Valley Waltz  easy key of G.......  



Play Happy



Swing

Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 05/17/2015:  04:23:38

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I only play in first position too.  Some of my favorite waltzes that haven't already been listed are Boardinghouse Bells Are Ringing Waltz in C, Midwinter Waltz (as played by the Boys Of The Lough) in D if I recall right, and Utpik or Ootpik (sp?) Waltz in G.  Also Moon River in G is a waltz or at least can be waltzed to in an emergency.

Zach

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/17/2015:  05:23:34

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Kentucky Waltz and Over the Waves.

Fiddler - Posted - 05/17/2015:  05:25:01

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... another easy one

Chapel Hill Serenade (D)

This is essentially Green Willis (Raw Recruit) or New Rigged Ship (jig) played in 3/4 time.

 

Then there are those syrupy early 20th century tunes - Good Old Summertime, Daisy, How Much is that Hound Dog, etc.etc. (I can't think of others right now.)

DougD - Posted - 05/17/2015:  05:51:15

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Waltz, Kitty Waltz (Carter Family), Daisy Bell ("Bicycle Built for Two"), Margaret's Waltz, General Lee's Surrender (from Ross Brown)

timfiskwa - Posted - 05/17/2015:  06:42:29

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...Spanish Fandango, Ry Cooder's "Great Dream from Heaven", there are thousands of simple waltz's. You can also take any jig and slow it down to a waltz.

mswlogo - Posted - 05/17/2015:  06:52:54

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Here is a beautiful waltz I've been working ok for a while. You can play it for free here.

freeraisins.bandcamp.com/track...ias-waltz

Jeff Kaufman of free raisins wrote it, I think Julia is his wife or daughter. I love the way Audrey (the Fiddler) plays it too.

Sorry, it's not well know but is first position.

 

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Edited by - mswlogo on 05/17/2015 06:56:04

timfiskwa - Posted - 05/17/2015:  06:55:27

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...Mexicali Rose, "Always" by Irving Berlin, OoK Pik, "Festival Waltz" by Kenny Baker, Goodnight Waltz, German Waltz, Cornflower, Ranger's, "Gardenia" by Johnny Gimble who has recently left this sphere, ...I could go on for a while with this topic.

Jasper - Posted - 05/17/2015:  10:06:16

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Salyer's Waltz...D

Rusty Mill Waltz...G

I'll not be a Stranger...D

Flying Indian Waltz...D

Leland Waltz....A

Most of these are not well known, but easy and fun to play. Very Hard Core Old Time.

andydean - Posted - 05/17/2015:  10:46:46

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It's a newer tune but it is fairly simple to play and I absolutely love to hear and play it, is A Riverboat's Gone which was written by April Verch. The melody is fairly simple and is pretty open to variation. Here's April Verch teaching it for free on youtube.

VIDEO: April Verch Fiddle Lesson - A Riverboat's Gone Pt 1 (click to view)

BanjoBrad - Posted - 05/17/2015:  14:08:46

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Don't know if it's first position, but one I really want to learn is Blackhawk Waltz.  I learned the dance in a folk dance class in Junior College in 1962 and have loved the tune ever since.  Haven't found a decent page of music for it, though.

fujers - Posted - 05/17/2015:  14:56:27

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I think it's good that Pogo is branching out for new Horizons. They're out there just waiting for you to discover them...Trust me I know. Jerry

fiddlepogo - Posted - 05/17/2015:  15:07:11

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Thanks, great suggestions, everyone. 

"How Much is That Doggy in the Window?" was a hit for Patty Page in 1953- that's a staple tune in my performances already. 

I started doing that and "Where, Oh Where Has My Little Dog Gone?", because sometimes people would bring therapy dogs in right in the middle of my performance, and the audience is of course distracted by the "cute doggies".   I found the best thing to do was to just roll with it, and do those two songs.

 

Yes, syrupy 3/4 pop tunes get done... Daisy, Daisy occasionally, but I often play a medley of:

Oh Dear What Can the Matter Be, My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean, The Daring Young Man on the Flying Trapeze, and Let's All Sing Like the Birdies Sing.  Daisy occasionally gets thrown into the medley.

 

Yes, Ookpik needs to go on the priority list.  One of the circle of Santa Monica fiddlers really liked that tune, and I think I might be able to hum it if I get reminded of it, and once I can do that, I can do it on the fiddle.

Yes, it's true.... one CAN slow down jigs, but they don't always work as well as a purpose written waltz, and there are enough nice waltzes here that I don't think that will REALLY be necessary.

Oh yeah.... two I used to do, and should do more often, are Somewhere My Love, and Que Sera, Sera.

Also.... "Sunrise, Sunset" from Fiddler on the Roof is actually a waltz of sorts.

Heh... with all this material, maybe I should just leave the banjo and baritone uke at home!

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Edited by - fiddlepogo on 05/17/2015 15:21:43

Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 05/17/2015:  16:16:54

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Mephisto Waltz.

GeeDubya - Posted - 05/17/2015:  17:08:10

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Not yet mentioned:  Cabri Waltz, Florence Killen's Waltz, River John Sunset, Poor Girl Waltz, Ookpik Waltz.

bandsmcnamar - Posted - 05/17/2015:  19:28:48

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How about some other Jay Ungar Waltzes to go with Ashokan.   Like:  The Lover's Waltz, Blue River Waltz(used as a theme for Ken Burns National Park series), and one I really like called "The Old Madeira Waltz"  Or......the Blue Violet Watlz that Michael Cleveland plays, really nice.

fujers - Posted - 05/17/2015:  21:19:39

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The lovers waltz not really played in first. But you can just change the notes. But then again it becomes another tune.

If you are clever you can play this in first position. Jerry

Bruce Clausen - Posted - 05/17/2015:  21:29:32

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quote:

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Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 

Mephisto Waltz.

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Yeah, good one. Here's the version I've been working on:

youtube.com/watch?v=cTVry4BeGBY

I just play the first position bits. 

 

timfiskwa - Posted - 05/18/2015:  06:55:12

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... Skater's Waltz, Bill Monroe's "Roxanna Waltz", annual Oktoberfest favorites "Snow Waltz" and "Cuckoo Waltz", Houdini's favorite "Anniversary Waltz" AKA Waves of the Danube, Three O'Clock in the Morning, popular fiddle contest waltzes include, Kelly's, Lucinda, Martins, 50 Years Ago, La Golondrina, Memory, Crying Waltz, and don't forget "Waltz Across Texas" from Ernest Tubb. That's a plenty!

mswlogo - Posted - 05/18/2015:  08:28:16

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quote:

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Originally posted by fujers

 

The lovers waltz not really played in first. But you can just change the notes. But then again it becomes another tune.



If you are clever you can play this in first position. Jerry

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I guess this guy must be one of the clever ones that can play it in first position. I "try" to play his version.

youtube.com/watch?v=jRyMH_4PO3Y

 

 

fiddlepogo - Posted - 05/18/2015:  08:34:13

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quote:

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Originally posted by fujers

 

I think it's good that Pogo is branching out for new Horizons. They're out there just waiting for you to discover them...Trust me I know. Jerry

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Not totally NEW horizons... well, except my waltz repertoire was way too narrow to be called a horizon!

But my waltz repertoire definitely needs broadening, and this should help.

Now comes the hard part- listening to them all and learning them.... well, SOME of them.  The nature of music is that it's a matter of taste, and I can't guarantee I'll like all of them well enough to learn them.   But at least I now know where to start listening!

Thanks everybody!

(But don't feel you need to quit if you haven't posted to this thread yet!)

It occurred to me that them being first position waltzes is important not only because of the difficulty factor,  but also because I nearly always perform solo.   High notes on the E string are one thing when you've got a guitar or piano backup..... solo is something else.... I think something that high needs something low underneath it.

So far we've got:

"Always" (Irving Berlin)

Anniversary Waltz (Waves of the Danube)

A Riverboat's Gone (April Verch)

Ash Grove

Black Hawk Waltz

Black Velvet Waltz

Boardinghouse Bells Are Ringing (C)

Cabri Waltz

Chapel Hill Serenade (D?)

Crying Waltz

Cuckoo Waltz

Death Valley Waltz (G)

Fifty Year's Ago

Flying Indian Waltz (D)

General Lee's Surrender

German Waltz

Goodnight Waltz

Green River Waltz (G)

Green Valley Waltz (D)

Julia's Waltz (Jeff Kaufman)

Kelly's Waltz

Kentucky Waltz (D)

Kiss Me Again (G)

Kitty Waltz

La Golondrina

Leland Waltz (A)

Lover's Waltz

Lucinda Waltz

Margaret's Waltz

Martin Waltz

Memory Waltz

Mexicali Rose

Mephisto Waltz

Midwinter Waltz (D?)

Mississippi River Waltz (G)

Moon River (G)

Norwegian Waltz (Interlake Waltz)

Ookpik Waltz (G)

Over the Waves (G)

Peek-a-Boo Waltz (D)

Red Fox Waltz (D)

Rose of Sharon (J.S.Skinner)

Roxanna Waltz  (Bill Monroe)

Rusty Mill Waltz (G)

Salyer's Waltz    (D)

Skater's Waltz

Snow Waltz

Storms Are on the Ocean (D)

Waltz Across Texas

 

 

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Edited by - fiddlepogo on 05/18/2015 08:48:20

fiddlepogo - Posted - 05/18/2015:  09:17:47

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Whoops.... missed a few:

"Always" (Irving Berlin)

Anniversary Waltz (Waves of the Danube)

A Riverboat's Gone (April Verch)

Ash Grove

Black Hawk Waltz

Black Velvet Waltz

Blue River Waltz

Blue Violet Waltz

Boardinghouse Bells Are Ringing (C)

Cabri Waltz

Chapel Hill Serenade (D?)

Crying Waltz

Cuckoo Waltz

Death Valley Waltz (G)

Florence Killen's Waltz

Fifty Years Ago

Flying Indian Waltz (D)

General Lee's Surrender

German Waltz

Goodnight Waltz

Green River Waltz (G)

Green Valley Waltz (D)

Julia's Waltz (Jeff Kaufman)

Kelly's Waltz

Kentucky Waltz (D)

Kiss Me Again (G)

Kitty Waltz

La Golondrina

Leland Waltz (A)

Lover's Waltz

Lucinda Waltz

Margaret's Waltz

Martin Waltz

Memory Waltz

Mexicali Rose

Mephisto Waltz

Midwinter Waltz (D?)

Mississippi River Waltz (G)

Moon River (G)

Norwegian Waltz (Interlake Waltz)

Old Madeira Waltz

Ookpik Waltz (G)

Over the Waves (G)

Peek-a-Boo Waltz (D)

Poor Girl Waltz

Red Fox Waltz (D)

River John Sunset

Rose of Sharon (J.S.Skinner)

Roxanna Waltz  (Bill Monroe)

Rusty Mill Waltz (G)

Salyer's Waltz    (D)

Skater's Waltz

Snow Waltz

Storms Are on the Ocean (D)

Three O'Clock in the Morning

Waltz Across Texas

 

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Edited by - fiddlepogo on 05/18/2015 09:29:43

mswlogo - Posted - 05/18/2015:  09:52:22

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One thing I've learned lately, especially since picking up a Viola. Is not to assume 3rd position is reserved for just high E notes (or high A on the Viola).

Some stuff can be easier or was intended for 3rd position playing over on G D A too. It has a different sound to it.

And just because it's in first position, don't assume it's easy either.

Because of the Viola I have explored 2nd 3rd and higher on both instruments and no longer reserve 3rd position for "High E" stuff. And my High E has improved as well.

I assume you read music, you might find this Waltz book handy. About a 1/3 of the tunes mentioned above are in it.

elderly.com/books/items/335-1.htm

Going through the contents, I'd add Westphalia Waltz. Also Midnight on the Water is a must learn. It would make a great Solo in DDAD cross tuning as it is often played in (but not required) and pretty easy.

 

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Edited by - mswlogo on 05/18/2015 09:55:04

Bruce Clausen - Posted - 05/18/2015:  10:25:35

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Most of the waltzes listed here are the American three-beat sort (Tennessee, Kentucky, etc.). I spent years playing in bands whose routine waltzes were things like Moon River and You Light up my Life.  But when you're playing for dancers you need a separate list of the quicker one-beat waltzes, the Viennese and Musette style waltzes that are really a different dance. Daisy Bell would be a familiar example, or Take me out to the Ball Game. Shall we Dance (The King and I), Wunderbar (Kiss me Kate), etc. etc. There's loads of European examples, of course.

But I don't think Franz Liszt's Mephisto Waltz really belongs in this company.

Bruce Clausen - Posted - 05/18/2015:  11:07:06

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Oops, not Shall we Dance, but, say, The Umbrella Man. Also Bluesette (a bluesy musette), plus tons of Strauss.

And how about Baby's in Black?

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Edited by - Bruce Clausen on 05/18/2015 11:16:31

DougD - Posted - 05/18/2015:  11:45:45

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Or "Norwegian Wood," for that matter.

Fiddler - Posted - 05/18/2015:  13:06:27

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...or Fur Eloise - that old Beethoven favorite

ChickenMan - Posted - 05/18/2015:  13:50:29

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce Clausen

Most of the waltzes listed here are the American three-beat sort (Tennessee, Kentucky, etc.). I spent years playing in bands whose routine waltzes were things like Moon River and You Light up my Life.  But when you're playing for dancers you need a separate list of the quicker one-beat waltzes, the Viennese and Musette style waltzes that are really a different dance. Daisy Bell would be a familiar example, or Take me out to the Ball Game. Shall we Dance (The King and I), Wunderbar (Kiss me Kate), etc. etc. There's loads of European examples, of course.

But I don't think Franz Liszt's Mephisto Waltz really belongs in this company.

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I'd be interested in hearing more about the supposed differences you've brought up because I'm missing something. Are you speaking of tempos? I can see how You Light up my Life could be played or sung too slowly, but when I read old timers talking about waltzes they usually say 'they play 'em too fast for dancing these days'. So, what are some ways I could distinguish between the types of waltzes?

fiddlepogo - Posted - 05/18/2015:  17:02:57

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce Clausen

 

Most of the waltzes listed here are the American three-beat sort (Tennessee, Kentucky, etc.). I spent years playing in bands whose routine waltzes were things like Moon River and You Light up my Life.  But when you're playing for dancers you need a separate list of the quicker one-beat waltzes, the Viennese and Musette style waltzes that are really a different dance. Daisy Bell would be a familiar example, or Take me out to the Ball Game. Shall we Dance (The King and I), Wunderbar (Kiss me Kate), etc. etc. There's loads of European examples, of course.

But I don't think Franz Liszt's Mephisto Waltz really belongs in this company.

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I think I do some of this intuitively... I do play Daisy Bell and Take Me Out to the Ball Game at a pretty good clip... basically anything that's more of a song that I know has a 19th Century origin.   Tennessee Waltz I play much slower.   As far as the listeners I have, it doesn't make much difference as long as the tune is familiar.  As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't make much difference, as long as the tune is catchy.

fiddlepogo - Posted - 05/18/2015:  17:15:02

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quote:

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Originally posted by mswlogo

 

One thing I've learned lately, especially since picking up a Viola. Is not to assume 3rd position is reserved for just high E notes (or high A on the Viola).

Some stuff can be easier or was intended for 3rd position playing over on G D A too. It has a different sound to it.

And just because it's in first position, don't assume it's easy either.

Because of the Viola I have explored 2nd 3rd and higher on both instruments and no longer reserve 3rd position for "High E" stuff. And my High E has improved as well.

I assume you read music, you might find this Waltz book handy. About a 1/3 of the tunes mentioned above are in it.

elderly.com/books/items/335-1.htm

Going through the contents, I'd add Westphalia Waltz. Also Midnight on the Water is a must learn. It would make a great Solo in DDAD cross tuning as it is often played in (but not required) and pretty easy.

 

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I do know the positions are used for other stuff.   It's a timbre thing.   I do the same kind of thing on electric guitar- I'll play higher up on the lower or middle strings, rather than lower on the high strings.   But on guitar, not only is it easier because of the frets, I'm doing it to sound bluesy and soulful, and LESS twangy and country sounding.   On fiddle, I'm mostly playing Old Time which is really Old Time Country music, and somehow, the tone of first position is just fine with me.  So the only reason I would go high is for high notes, and I don't really enjoy the sound of those.   I don't know whether it's me or my fiddles, but the sound of the upper positions on the lower strings just is NOT very thrilling.   Maybe if I had a nicer instrument I'd feel differently.... or maybe if I get into blues fiddle.

I installed a "Don't Fret" on a friend's fiddle, and the thought occurred to me that I could do the same with one of mine to learn positions.... but it DOESN'T improve the tone, IMO!

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Edited by - fiddlepogo on 05/18/2015 17:20:37

Bruce Clausen - Posted - 05/18/2015:  17:41:29

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan



I'd be interested in hearing more about the supposed differences you've brought up because I'm missing something. Are you speaking of tempos? I can see how You Light up my Life could be played or sung too slowly, but when I read old timers talking about waltzes they usually say 'they play 'em too fast for dancing these days'. So, what are some ways I could distinguish between the types of waltzes?

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I suppose it is a matter of tempos, mainly. We hear Tennessee Waltz sung as slow as 80 quarter-note beats per minute, and that goes for most of the waltz *songs* on Pogo's list-- the Irving Berlin and Mancini tunes, for example.  But when you're playing for real ballroom dancers that want to dance a waltz, you're in different territory. Waltzes like Over the Waves are often played closer to 72 *bars* per minute, that is, the 3/4 is felt as one beat (and that's how conductors conduct quick waltzes). So the word waltz can mean two different things, depending on who you're playing for.

By the way, as far as the "first position" criterion is concerned, first position has a range of low G to high B or C, two octaves plus a third or a fourth.  Almost any familiar melody can be played within that range, so long as you put it in the right key.

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Edited by - Bruce Clausen on 05/18/2015 17:42:52

Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 05/18/2015:  19:08:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce Clausen

 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan



I'd be interested in hearing more about the supposed differences you've brought up because I'm missing something. Are you speaking of tempos? I can see how You Light up my Life could be played or sung too slowly, but when I read old timers talking about waltzes they usually say 'they play 'em too fast for dancing these days'. So, what are some ways I could distinguish between the types of waltzes?

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I suppose it is a matter of tempos, mainly. We hear Tennessee Waltz sung as slow as 80 quarter-note beats per minute, and that goes for most of the waltz *songs* on Pogo's list-- the Irving Berlin and Mancini tunes, for example.  But when you're playing for real ballroom dancers that want to dance a waltz, you're in different territory. Waltzes like Over the Waves are often played closer to 72 *bars* per minute, that is, the 3/4 is felt as one beat (and that's how conductors conduct quick waltzes). So the word waltz can mean two different things, depending on who you're playing for.

By the way, as far as the "first position" criterion is concerned, first position has a range of low G to high B or C, two octaves plus a third or a fourth.  Almost any familiar melody can be played within that range, so long as you put it in the right key.

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No one can do seventy-two bars in a minute--c'mon!   Even if they were all close together.  Moreover, no one could play any waltzes after doing seventy-two bars a minute...oh...never mind.  

Humbled by this instrument - Posted - 05/18/2015:  19:09:34

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"The Times they are a chaiiinnnnnnging."

SamY - Posted - 05/18/2015:  19:22:20

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My favorite version of Ookpik (also called canadian waltz) is by hangout member fiddlerdi, you can here it here...

fiddlehangout.com/myhangout/mu...sp?id=112

 

mswlogo - Posted - 05/18/2015:  20:09:55

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quote:

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Originally posted by Humbled by this instrument

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce Clausen

 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan



I'd be interested in hearing more about the supposed differences you've brought up because I'm missing something. Are you speaking of tempos? I can see how You Light up my Life could be played or sung too slowly, but when I read old timers talking about waltzes they usually say 'they play 'em too fast for dancing these days'. So, what are some ways I could distinguish between the types of waltzes?

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I suppose it is a matter of tempos, mainly. We hear Tennessee Waltz sung as slow as 80 quarter-note beats per minute, and that goes for most of the waltz *songs* on Pogo's list-- the Irving Berlin and Mancini tunes, for example.  But when you're playing for real ballroom dancers that want to dance a waltz, you're in different territory. Waltzes like Over the Waves are often played closer to 72 *bars* per minute, that is, the 3/4 is felt as one beat (and that's how conductors conduct quick waltzes). So the word waltz can mean two different things, depending on who you're playing for.

By the way, as far as the "first position" criterion is concerned, first position has a range of low G to high B or C, two octaves plus a third or a fourth.  Almost any familiar melody can be played within that range, so long as you put it in the right key.

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No one can do seventy-two bars in a minute--c'mon!   Even if they were all close together.  Moreover, no one could play any waltzes after doing seventy-two bars a minute...oh...never mind.  

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That's not as fast/hard as you might think. I just tried Arron Boat Song at 216 BPM (counting all 3 beats) (which is the same as 72 measures per minute).

It wasn't that hard. Believe I'm not that fast. Not that I like it or would like dancing it at that rate.

A typical Reel "Fiddle tune" is 32 bars in 30 seconds (about 120 BPM). Or 64 bars per minute. And that's often with 8 notes per bar instead of just typically 3 for a waltz.

So a Waltz at 72 measures a minute is 216 (quarter) notes per minute. A Reel at 120 BPM is 480 (eighth) notes per minute (4 eighth notes per down beat) !!

 

Bruce Clausen - Posted - 05/18/2015:  20:56:55

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My point wasn't that it's hard to play 216 p. m., but that at that tempo the dancers (and most players) feel it as one beat per bar. (And somehow I don't think that was Humbled's point either.)

 

Midwest_Fiddler - Posted - 05/25/2015:  18:39:40

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Stepladder Waltz (Stegen Vals) (D)

Mr. Fisher's Old German Waltz (G)

Evening Star Waltz (D & A , I think)

Ore Vals (G)

Josefins Dopvals (F)

Those are some that I play that I didn't see listed yet.

Chirps

Dick Hauser - Posted - 05/26/2015:  10:36:22

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A few waltzes I enjoy playing are -

Good Neighbor Waltz
Country Waltz (Simple, but catchy melody)
La Golondrina (You hear this tune a lot, but few people know its name)
John MacDonald's Waltz (Graham Townsend piece. Easy enough to play, but complex enough to sound better than the average waltz)
Sheperd's Waltz ( Sounds good with little effort. Use of "dotted" notes make it sound a little different)
Sweet Bunch of Daisies (Old folks remember this tunes, and the memories are enjoyable)

Note - All 3/4 tunes aren't waltzes. Ashokan Farewell, Gentle Maiden, and Si Bheag. Si Mhor are examples of tunes which are airs. Unlike waltzes, they are written for listening, not dancing. So how the tune is played is determined by the soloist. Playing rhythm behind these tunes must be very difficult. Like playing harmony while someone else plays melody. Playsing accompaniment for airs and playing harmony must help develop playing skills. I once knew some very good fiddlers, and they were always on the lookout for someone to play melody so they could practice playing harmony.

mswlogo - Posted - 05/26/2015:  20:32:12

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dick Hauser

 

A few waltzes I enjoy playing are -



Good Neighbor Waltz

Country Waltz (Simple, but catchy melody)

La Golondrina (You hear this tune a lot, but few people know its name)

John MacDonald's Waltz (Graham Townsend piece. Easy enough to play, but complex enough to sound better than the average waltz)

Sheperd's Waltz ( Sounds good with little effort. Use of "dotted" notes make it sound a little different)

Sweet Bunch of Daisies (Old folks remember this tunes, and the memories are enjoyable)



Note - All 3/4 tunes aren't waltzes. Ashokan Farewell, Gentle Maiden, and Si Bheag. Si Mhor are examples of tunes which are airs. Unlike waltzes, they are written for listening, not dancing. So how the tune is played is determined by the soloist. Playing rhythm behind these tunes must be very difficult. Like playing harmony while someone else plays melody. Playsing accompaniment for airs and playing harmony must help develop playing skills. I once knew some very good fiddlers, and they were always on the lookout for someone to play melody so they could practice playing harmony.

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I don't disagree with your comment, but those tunes you mention are not the best examples as all 3 are played at New England Contra Dances which often have 2 Waltz Dances (and I'm sure danced to elsewhere as well). Especially Ashokan which I find a bit overplayed. Gentle Maiden is on a CD called The Montville Project with George Fowler (I assume the same Fiddle Hangout Member and contributor to this thread) and described as “core repertoire” of New England contra dance music.

It just may be, as you said, it's how it's played and the versions of these tunes you are most accustomed to may feel less danceable and more for listening.

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Edited by - mswlogo on 05/26/2015 20:33:28

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/26/2015:  21:35:00

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Surprised no one mentioned the Drunken Hiccups/Rye Whiskey/Jack of Diamonds (pretty popular for OT folks). - Others - Amelia's, My Own Home Waltz, The Waltz I Saved For You, Margaret's Waltz, Swanannoa Waltz, April Waltz, Great Wall of China, Two Rivers, Waltz for Little Girls, seem to be fairly common at recent dances and jams.

I'm really not a waltz fiddler per se,

I play a lot of waltzes; but especially in Cajun band, half the repertoire is waltzes. I hear the term "waltz" fiddler (along with the way some folks state the mark of a good fiddler is waltzes) - seems mean something about them fancy showy 3/4 tunes like used in part of a fiddle contest (long bows, tone, double stops, complex, high positions, vibrato..). Not particularly about playing waltzes for dancing. (I think of "waltz" as reference to dancing) - It seems like a whole different thing than fiddlers who just play waltzes - directly linked to  the dance, the rhythmic feel and flow, the groove - The tunes are not much at all like the contest show pieces; and most of them are in first position. On the surface lots of the tunes are generally fairly easy to play, just like other fiddle tunes, but .. The bowing, accent, pulse and phrasing are every bit as important in these just as any other dance tune.

So, what are some ways I could distinguish between the types of waltzes?

With the dance feel in mind - Waltzing (the dancing) is a rather generic term describing dance to 3/4. But the actual way one dances, importantly the feel, is quite varied. For example, the Vienna waltz, ballroom (referred to above) is one style but then to the northern and contra waltzing, to then the southern and Cajun waltzing, are all quite different in feel. One noticeable difference is the peppy on the toes, or slight hop step, vs on the ground glide vs more from thigh and pelvic sway. As such the music has a different feel. Tempo is part of it,  but there is also differences in how strict, stiff and even the metric feel (123) is; and how the beat (and which beat) gets anticipated, accented and flows. (technically some of the dances should be called Ländler, Minuet, Mazurka, Polonaise, Polska, Varsovienne, Redowa, Waltz-Clog or others rather than waltz, but that's another issue).

As mentioned - not all 3/4 tunes are waltzes. Many tunes are just airs, laments; and some are just songs in 3/4; Ashokan Farewell is usually played as a Lament. -  Amazing Grace, On Top of Old Smoky are in 3/4 but not usually thought of or played as a waltz.

So how the tune is played is determined by the soloist. Playing rhythm behind these tunes must be very difficult.

Those songs or airs or laments could be played in more of a rhythmic waltz dance feel. It can be just in how the fiddler plays it (with a strong defining waltz pulse) or the accompaniment.  Playing rhythm behind these, I'm not sure what would be overly difficult whether as a waltz or not  - usually still have steady rhythm even if not for dancing (except perhaps free meter airs)

 

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Edited by - alaskafiddler on 05/26/2015 21:43:16

alaskafiddler - Posted - 05/26/2015:  21:49:53

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Someone mentioned The  "Waltz Book" collections - it's four volumes of waltzes. Most are of the Northern variety popular with the contra crowd; meant for dancing to. (not so much airs and contests)  Besides old standards, has modern tunes from Larry Unger, Bob McQuillen, Mark Simos among others. Many of these tunes are fairly easy, but (as per the style) are a bit more developed in harmonic/chords and/or well suited for harmony parts. Great source for that style of waltz tunes. (includes influences of New England, Quebecois, Down East, Scandinavian, PEI, Cape Breton, Irish, Scottish, among others) -

wooliver - Posted - 05/27/2015:  09:06:53

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To me Waltzes are such a formulaic tune, I often make them up as I go. There is only so much that is a Waltz. Because it is a dance tune, one must keep dancers in mind even if they are not present. If you get the right bunch, you can go for miles on the same key & chord progression, coming up with more and more stuff until the dancers have had enough. BTW I didn't see anybody mention Bill Powel's or Mom & Dad's Waltz.

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Edited by - wooliver on 05/27/2015 09:08:18

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 05/27/2015:  11:34:42

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What is a waltz?  Just because something's in 3 time?  3/4, whatever?  I never really thought of some of those things as waltzes...maybe they are considered that by fiddlers.  I guess most things I think of as a waltz have the name, waltz, in them.  They're kinda tough to play.  I like playing the ones I can get through.

Fiddler - Posted - 05/27/2015:  15:13:58

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Hey -- you know, the Star Spangler Banner is in 3/4 time!! Put that to waltz tempo at your next dance. Imagine the looks you'll get!

Actually, it is derived from a drinking song - "Anacreon To Heaven"

All together now ....

To Anacreon in Heav'n, where he sat in full Glee,

A few Sons of Harmony sent a Petition,

That he their Inspirer and Patron would be;

When this answer arriv'd from the Jolly Old Grecian

"Voice, Fiddle, and Flute,

"no longer be mute,

"I'll lend you my Name and inspire you to boot,

"And, besides I'll instruct you, like me, to intwine

"The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

wooliver - Posted - 05/28/2015:  07:52:11

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quote:

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

 

What is a waltz? 

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A waltz is a dance in 3/4 time. But like you said, not all 3/4 tunes are waltzes. If you really want to get down to frog hair, a Waltz is a form of dance not a particular type of tune.  We've gotten slack over the years, and started calling the tunes we play for waltz dances "waltzes."

ChickenMan - Posted - 05/28/2015:  10:03:46

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I don't think I'd call all of these suggestions easy.
Poor Girl Waltz comes immediately to mind. It is, however, different enough to distinguish it from many other waltz tunes.
That's my issue with waltzes - they all sound so similar that, as wooliver said, I can whistle all day in a big continuous waltz improv with little effort.