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elf1654 - Posted - 07/27/2014: 05:35:08
Hello all,
I can tab out a tune if need be with standard notation provided. It at least gives a quick reference where to put my fingers at the start. Based on the idea of Every Good Boy Does Fine / FACE for standard tuning. Does this EGBDF/FACE change with cross tuning? Silly question I know but in my mind when I look at the above I know what note and where my finger needs to land. When cross tuning, my mind locks up thinking the notes have moved on the finger board and as a result the notation will be be different. Am I missing something here or am I just thinking too hard?
Rusty
Fiddler - Posted - 07/27/2014: 06:08:08
There are two schools of thought, as I understand it.
1. The notation is given as standard notation. In other words the notes are the proper pitch if you were to play the tune in standard GDae tuning. If you plan on playing in cross-tune, you have to find the proper fingering.
2. The notation is given as position. In effect what you are doing is writing out the "tab." So, if the fiddle is cross-tune to AEae, the third note on the E string is "A", but is shown as a "G" on paper. And on it goes. It is confusing to me, but my Baroque violin friends tell me that it's pretty easy for them once the separate the pitch from the notes on the page.
Marion Thede's fiddle book has transcriptions both in standard notation and in this cross-tune "tab" notation.
Cyndy - Posted - 07/27/2014: 06:13:56
Sometime I jot down new tunes to help me remember them and often they're cross-tuned. I use standard notation for a standard-tuned fiddle to remind me of the finger positions which means that sometimes the pitches are wrong and, depending on how many strings the tune uses, sometimes it looks like the tune is changing keys when really it's not.
It makes sense to me and no one else looks at my book of tunes anyway (and actually, I rarely look back at it unless I need a quick reminder) so I just do what's comfortable for me. : )
Dick Hauser - Posted - 07/27/2014: 06:21:41
When I used scodatura (i.e. "tab"), I had no problem noting correctly. But mentally, I wouldn't hear the note I expected. After playing the tune a while, I would get used to the situation. If a person used scodatura quite a bit, and used different tunings, I would think that a person would learn to make a mental adjustment when changing tunings. If I were doing this, I would probably need a little warm up period when I changed tunings.
I only used scodatura to learn to play the tune. I played the tune from memory. When I first started using it, it was very difficult and it took some time before to get used to play what you think is a certain note, and hearing something else. Sort of like while playing in standard tuning, and having a string suddenly loose tension and sound several semitones lower. Like playing what you mind thinks is a C# on the "A" string, but instead hearing an "Bb" note instead.
eric marten - Posted - 07/27/2014: 13:53:26
Interestingly enough, Willam Sidney Mount, a painter/artist/flautist/music historian in the 19th century, Stony Brook, Long Island transcribed about 500 tunes, and if they were in "A" tuning would write them out like the "tab" mentioned above, EAEA tuning (or AEAE as many fiddlers refer to it), but play the notes as if not retuned, as Marion Thede did in her book mentioned above.. However, if in "D" tuning, he wrote them out in standard, but tells the performer to tune the bass string, i.e., G string up one tone, to get the "Negro" sound to the fiddle. His years, I believe, were 1809-1868. Check out his dozens of beautiful paintings depicting fiddlers on Long Island at the time.
alaskafiddler - Posted - 07/28/2014: 14:27:45
For the most part I find it easier to have it written as standard notation, as sounds*; and like Fiddler mentioned just change the fingering. Part of it though comes from playing by-ear; already associating fingering and intervals with the key; and including then cross tuning associating fingering and intervals with the key. One thing might help is that the 2 most common cross tuning ADAE and AEAE - most of the tune is in the higher unchanged strings; and that is just the bass strings that changed; and that the change makes them an octave fingering equivalent of the higher string; knowing that the open 4th string is an A note; first finger a b note; third a d note, same as the second string.
One suggestion I would make in learning cross tuned tunes; start with simple tunes that you can play in standard GDAE; (BTW, a lot of the tunes can be played just fine in standard) - and then play it in raised bass(s); basically by ear, leaving the notation part out of it. Another is learning to take a high part and playing it an octave lower (in cross). So as to get familiar with the lower fingering in keys of D and A.
*the exception of how it sounds is when a fiddle is tuned down a step or so, to the likes of FCGD; GDGD, FCFC. IMO require much more mental transposing. I think those read easier as if in GDAE, or AEAE; just that the tuning is lower; A=392?
fiddlepogo - Posted - 07/28/2014: 17:16:30
quote:
Originally posted by elf1654
Hello all,
I can tab out a tune if need be with standard notation provided. It at least gives a quick reference where to put my fingers at the start. Based on the idea of Every Good Boy Does Fine / FACE for standard tuning. Does this EGBDF/FACE change with cross tuning? Silly question I know but in my mind when I look at the above I know what note and where my finger needs to land. When cross tuning, my mind locks up thinking the notes have moved on the finger board and as a result the notation will be be different. Am I missing something here or am I just thinking too hard?
Rusty
The finger association changes for whatever strings have been retuned from Standard. If a string has been tuned up a whole step (like AEAE), you would use the next finger over towards the nut, or even the open string.
Tab might have been designed especially for instruments that use a lot of different tunings, like clawhammer banjo. If fiddlers use a lot of different tunings, and don't learn tunes well by ear, it can also help some people.
However.... there are two basic kinds of cross tuning tunes.
There are the fairly simple fiddle and banjo tunes in the Round Peak subgenre of Old Time, and a few other places too. You should try learning these by ear... they really aren't that hard or that complicated. Once you've learned a couple dozen of those, then you might be ready for the more complex and fiddley cross-tuned tunes like the Kentucky tunes of William Stepp and Luther Strong.
'The Keystone Fiddlers' 10 hrs
