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Playing the Fiddle
Music Theory
ARCHIVED TOPIC: Pentatonic Scales

Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/37472

pete_fiddle - Posted - 04/25/2014: 11:18:44

Hi just joined the fiddle hangout

wondering how folk are constructing and using pentatonic scales(in jamming improvising etc),and could they be the road to the dusty end of my fingerboard?

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 04/25/2014: 18:41:23

Closed position scales open the road up the finger board to those that will venture there. Accurate shifting is another skill to acquire in the process. Arpeggios including use of the flatted third fifth and seventh also help. Luck.... R/

Henry - Posted - 04/25/2014: 19:42:44

quote:
Originally posted by pete_fiddle

Hi just joined the fiddle hangout

wondering how folk are constructing and using pentatonic scales(in jamming improvising etc),and could they be the road to the dusty end of my fingerboard?

Absolutely.....As discussed in the 'Modes' thread. Of course pentatonic scales only have five notes, so much less to contend with. Pentatonics are scales that contain semi-tones, and scales without any semi-tones. But, to play them up the finger board one will need to memorize the finger shapes of each 'mode' and know which mode follows which and how they over-lap each other.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 04/26/2014: 00:06:23

thanks its great to talk to people about music theory applied to the fiddle
i have memorized the 7 modes of the major scale (closed positions)and am the process of extracting pentatonic scales from them (the ones with no semitones seem to be the simplest),by taking the notes from the triads and adding two more notes avoiding semitones eg: G mixolidian with the CMaj Triad then adding the 6 and 9 gives me G,A,C,D,E i am repeating this pattern up the neck is this a pentatonic scale or a C69 Arpeggio? i dont know but it seems get me up and down the neck after years of learning tune after tune in the 1st position (odd how such a simple little pattern takes so much explaining)
thanks again for replies

fiddlepogo - Posted - 04/26/2014: 00:35:08

Many fiddle tunes stay pentatonic for most of the tune, especially the older ones.

I find pentatonic tunes and scales can be an aid to intonation. I use a tune with a heavily pentatonic A part as a warm up tune, and hone in on the pentatonic intonation which in G is mostly the index and third finger notes. Having established the intonation of the first and third finger notes as a reference., THEN I find it easier to add it the second and third finger notes.

I'm not highly motivated to play in second and third positions, but the attempts I have made seem to indicate the same approach would work well up there. They say anything complex can be made easier by breaking it down into smaller steps, and pentatonics ARE a way of breaking down the challenge of intonation into two steps. I also use pentatonic scales a lot on electric guitar, and know from that that they work well as fills... the lack of discordant notes makes them stay in the background better and not distract as much from the singer.

fujers - Posted - 04/26/2014: 12:39:58

Fiddlepogo, Most of your playing in 3rd is pentatonic I say most. But major and minor keys are also up there. Most of what you would play in 2nd position is the same..I said most

To get to 3rd position. I'm sure you already know this. But try this. Hit an open A..know take your first finger and play the high A on your E string. Use this for reference till you're used to playing in 3rd

Now that we are the 3rd. Play your upper B and C# you're now playing in the key of A

There's all kinds of notes up there. Explore the amazement is waiting. Jerry

fiddlepogo - Posted - 04/26/2014: 13:18:30

Well, maybe I should've explained what I meant when I said "Not highly motivated".

On guitar, I go up the neck all the time, and know the fingerboard pretty well... BUT there is a point where the notes are so high pitched I don't like the sound of them.... Rock guitarist get 22 and 24 fret necks to get them, but I am totally underwhelmed by the sound up there. And when you shift positions on the violin E string, that's the kind of notes you get..... I just don't like the sound of them that much.

And the notes in the upper positions on the wound strings are can be found on the D, A, and E in first position.... so why go up there?

I know.... different timbre. but so far, I don't relish that different timbre enough to do the work

fujers - Posted - 04/26/2014: 13:53:10

So you have no interest in playing in 3rd? Thats ok. It's not for everyone. But if you do go there you'll be amazed at the notes you'll find. Hey playing only in first position has done wonders for a lot of fiddle players. If you ever feel the need to play in upper register remember what I told you. Hit your open string A and hit the upper A on your E string.

Besides, Hanie, O'conner, Leftwich, Duncan all play in the upper register

Want to broaden your playing ability play the upper notes

pete_fiddle - Posted - 04/26/2014: 19:18:37

i think sometimes the notes are easier to bow and fingerings are easier in higher positions,the double stops definitely seem to be up there,and you've still got open strings in most keys to check intonation,thicken notes up and change back and forth between positions,i think it might be the way forward for me.

fiddlinsteudel - Posted - 04/26/2014: 22:05:33

I've seen lots of local fiddle players hit some cool licks in 3rd position.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 04/26/2014: 22:45:49

hi fiddlinsteudel
yes ive got some of the rosin off of my finger board in the last couple of days trying stuff out up there,just need to get more in tune
interestingly i was checking out the "playing in B" link so i thought i would have a go, that almost instantly changed my idea of what was and wasn't "in tune"
so i've been playing slightly flat for all these years!! oh well back to the drawing board ....again :0)
ps i like your "write that tune #1 idea,and the baby and suite case tune

fujers - Posted - 04/26/2014: 22:46:45

Mark, Like I told you. It's now time to bring up your game. Learn 3rd position it will bring you up to a higher level. Stop playing in safe mode and just play. Heck even I make make mistakes but I've learned to cover them up.

I like you..I think you are a good fiddler but without the right direction

Allow me to get you to where you need to be. It won't you cost a dime

fiddlerjoebob - Posted - 04/27/2014: 10:38:02

Fujers..."Even I make mistakes" ? Say it ain't so.

fujers - Posted - 04/27/2014: 12:52:46

fiddlerjoebob, No not you! You encompus everything thats good about the fiddle. You are a genius sir. How was that for a compliment?

Henry - Posted - 04/27/2014: 14:52:06

quote:
Originally posted by fujers

Heck even I make make mistakes but I've learned to cover them up.

He covers them up really well so no one can tell if that was a bum note or if it was supposed to be in the music he was playing. This is the skill of a master fiddler, heck I worked on this skill so much I can't even tell if I made a mistake......!?