rbrazz - Posted - 09/27/2013:  17:52:33

On YouTube I saw Wayne Benson talking about pentatonic scales freeing him up to just jam and not think too much about notes.  I have been looking for the books or CDs he was talking about.  Has anyone taken his advice and got the CDs or books or used the pentatonic scales like he is talking about.  I would like to hear from you.  thanks rbrazz

fiddlebutcher - Posted - 09/27/2013:  23:04:20

quote:

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Originally posted by rbrazz

 

 used the pentatonic scales like he is talking about. 

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I couldn't the find the vid you are talking about, but I think every one uses these scales in the same way.........

paulinefiddle - Posted - 09/28/2013:  01:49:55

Could someone please explain the use of pentatonic scales to me or refer me to a good tutorial? I know 1 3 5 6 8 (no half steps), but what is special about the sound and how do you use these scales?

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 09/28/2013:  05:09:06

I'd like to see the video...any links?  I think lots of people use pentatonic scales without realizing it...armed with the knowledge it would be mre solidly a part of a musician's bag of tricks to choose from, rather than depending on luck to get by.  Anyone have a link to the video?

martynspeck - Posted - 09/28/2013:  05:48:00

I believe this is the video. youtu.be/SNj0wPgyL7A

Here's a link to the book he mentions The Pentatonic Mandolin available at Elderly. It's not at Amazon right now.

Sam Shazaam - Posted - 09/28/2013:  06:43:37

The best advice I ever got was to learn the pentatonic scales. It is somewhat a question of timing. If you play the wrong note at the wrong time you will get a "sour" note or what is called a dissonance. Most commonly this is a 1-4 combination. By staying with the pentatonic scale in whatever key you are playing in it is impossible to hit this dissonance. You may not hit the perfect note but at least you will not hit a really bad one. When improvising during a jam this makes it much easier to play by ear because you don't have to worry about hitting a "sour" note. I practice the pentatonic scales as part of my daily scales practice.

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 09/28/2013:  09:20:19

Thanks fr that link...looks like then, if you know where to go to stay within the pentatonic scale of whichever key you're in, you can avoid any notes that clash with what's going on, whether you know the thing or not.

martynspeck - Posted - 09/28/2013:  10:01:09

At the beginning of that video, he gives an E pentatonic scale to someone to play then he starts playing "The Chord Scale" that all the notes in the pentatonic scale works with.

What is this "Chord Scale"?

eeee - Posted - 09/28/2013:  11:51:32

quote:

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Originally posted by paulinefiddle

 

Could someone please explain the use of pentatonic scales to me or refer me to a good tutorial? I know 1 3 5 6 8 (no half steps), but what is special about the sound and how do you use these scales?

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The major pentatonic scale as I understand it is 1 2 3 5 6 (8). One way to remember it is think if the riff behind "I've Got Sunshine (On A Cloudy Day"). The minor pentonic scale is derived from the relative minor scale and is often played over it's major chord for a blues effect.

eeee - Posted - 09/28/2013:  12:07:40

quote:

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Originally posted by martynspeck

 

At the beginning of that video, he gives an E pentatonic scale to someone to play then he starts playing "The Chord Scale" that all the notes in the pentatonic scale works with.

What is this "Chord Scale"?

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The chord scale is derived from the notes in the scale. Basically, if you used a piano keyboard playing just the white keys and played a 3 note C chord, that would be I, move that shape to the next note in the scale you'd play a Dm chord, that would be II. The next chord is Em, next on F, then G, then Am (the relative minor), and B minor.

martynspeck - Posted - 09/28/2013:  15:47:32

quote:

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Originally posted by abinigia

 

quote:

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Originally posted by martynspeck

 

At the beginning of that video, he gives an E pentatonic scale to someone to play then he starts playing "The Chord Scale" that all the notes in the pentatonic scale works with.

What is this "Chord Scale"?

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The chord scale is derived from the notes in the scale. Basically, if you used a piano keyboard playing just the white keys and played a 3 note C chord, that would be I, move that shape to the next note in the scale you'd play a Dm chord, that would be II. The next chord is Em, next on F, then G, then Am (the relative minor), and B minor.

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So he's demonstrating that any note on the pentatonic scale in a particular key would go with any chord also played in that key.

I had always thought I needed to play a pentatonic scale in whatever chord was being played at the time.

tarheel - Posted - 09/28/2013:  18:20:51

If you want to play with other people I would suggest (like I have many times) to learn your pentatonic scales. If you are really lost you can fake it by playing around in the major pent. through the whole song, there will be some unfortunate moments got to be quick on your feet and pretend it was just a passing note to get back to the melody. Or harmony, but don't press your luck there haha. Best bet is teach yourself to hear what cord is likely coming up, and use the pent. for that cord, and etc. etc. Where it really gets useful and makes you sound like you know what you're doing is when you can work in some blues scales like 1,3b,4,5,7b, etc. The most important thing I guess is to get the patterns under your fingers and keep some movement going, and as always a good START and a good FINISH. forgive me for being long winded but this is really the secret to getting your foot in the door for comping with a band

fiddlebutcher - Posted - 09/28/2013:  18:40:08

quote:

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Originally posted by martynspeck

 

I had always thought I needed to play a pentatonic scale in whatever chord was being played at the time.

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This is the ultimate way to play these scales because there are more note choices , but you need to know the pentatonic scale for each chord.

The tonic pentatonic scale will go with all the chords in the key as stated above,  but there are only 5 notes to choose from.

Can you play 'Amazing Grace'? This is a pentatonic scale, find all the notes of this tune, now play with them any way you wish...........

RobBob - Posted - 09/29/2013:  07:22:48

A lot of fiddle tunes and folk songs are pentatonic.  Five  tones.  As opposed to chromatic or 12 tones.  The art is in using these five tones to your best advantage.  You can study it or immerse yourself in the genre.  Either way you will learn it.  It all depends on how you learn.

tarheel - Posted - 09/29/2013:  18:44:02

quote:

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Originally posted by RobBob

 

A lot of fiddle tunes and folk songs are pentatonic.  Five  tones.  As opposed to chromatic or 12 tones.  The art is in using these five tones to your best advantage.  You can study it or immerse yourself in the genre.  Either way you will learn it.  It all depends on how you learn.

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that's true most fiddle tunes are basically pentatonic, but where the rub comes in is jamming with new folks on a new or half remembered tune. Of course it works best where players are expected to take a break, ( that is, to give your version of the tune) and give some complimentory backup to the tune.

cunparis - Posted - 09/30/2013:  04:16:46

quote:

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Originally posted by martynspeck

 

I believe this is the video. youtu.be/SNj0wPgyL7A

Here's a link to the book he mentions The Pentatonic Mandolin available at Elderly. It's not at Amazon right now.

 

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Where did this video come from?  I found a DVD of his but I don't know if this video is from that DVD or something else.

Sam Shazaam - Posted - 09/30/2013:  07:10:15

Pentatonic scale for Major keys- 1 2 3 5 6    -   skip 4&7

Pentatonic scale for Minor keys- 1 3 4 5 7   -   skip 2&6

fiddlebutcher - Posted - 09/30/2013:  19:56:48

quote:

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Originally posted by Sam Shazaam

 

 

Pentatonic scale for Minor keys- 1 3 4 5 7   -   skip 2&6

 

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Actually these are the correct scale degrees for the minor scale........

1  b3  4   5  b7

martynspeck - Posted - 10/01/2013:  18:39:35

quote:

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Originally posted by Henry George

 

quote:

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Originally posted by martynspeck

 

I had always thought I needed to play a pentatonic scale in whatever chord was being played at the time.

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This is the ultimate way to play these scales because there are more note choices , but you need to know the pentatonic scale for each chord.

The tonic pentatonic scale will go with all the chords in the key as stated above,  but there are only 5 notes to choose from.

Can you play 'Amazing Grace'? This is a pentatonic scale, find all the notes of this tune, now play with them any way you wish...........

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Hey, Thanks for the suggestion of using Amazing Grace for finding the pentatonic scale quickly without really thinking about it. That's pretty handy.

robinja - Posted - 10/02/2013:  10:40:44

When I first started taking fiddle lessons, my teacher showed me the pentatonic scale at one of my first lessons.  While I don't think much about it now, knowing that was a huge help when I first started attending old time sessions.  Being new to old time and new to the fiddle, there was no way that I was going to be able to pick out tunes on the fly, but by knowing the pentatonic scale, I could narrow it down and at least play something that blended.

Judy