jfrebel - Posted - 02/21/2008:  07:59:59

someone on this forum a while back suggested I get a guitar and learn some chords to help me understand how they fit into music as that would aid my fiddle playing.

problem is I tried the guitar and hated it. barre chords, ugh. big huge cumbersome instrument, another turn off.

I solved that problem. I just got me an ukulele!

I found some chord charts online so I can teach myself the chords. I know how to tune it. from top string to bottom: GCAE

now here's the weird part. the G string is a perfect fifth higher than the C (middle C) string below it. then the E string is a major third up from C, and the A string is a major second higher than the top string!

this is both weird and very unintuitive for picking out scales and noodling.

now with practice, I'll get past this, and the chords are no problem, as the chart I have will tell me how my fingers should be placed.

so my question for the tuning is simply this: why? why are ukes tuned in this weird way?

next question. how do you learn chord progressions by ear?

I just saw a guy on youtube explain that lots of songs use the "1,4,5 pattern."

so if you know this, then you can easily figure out what the chords are if you can peg that first chord down. so a song in the key of C would use the C, F, G chords.

this saves me alot of work, and hunting aimlessly.

I want more tricks like this. these nice tricks are great for us folks without a sense of perfect pitch who must rely on relative pitch and music theory to figure all this stuff out.

what books, websites, videos etc, can you suggest? also feel free to give me free tips right here on this thread.

thanks for your time.

Edited by - OTJunky on 05/30/2008 17:32:33

Swing - Posted - 02/21/2008:  08:24:11

This may help... Paul Anastasio a great fiddler from the Seattle area ,wrote an article(many) about chords... he suggested using a ukulele as you have done. The thing that was different was that he suggested tuning it like a fiddle and learning the four string chords from a mandolin. You can down load mandolin chords from several sites. Now you have a direct reference to the fiddle.

Learning chord progressions by ear is another thing.... basic music theory books or online info can help you understand the l lV V chords and how to expand beyond that..... the real thing is to play backup for other fiddlers... then the chord patterns will make more sense.

Play Happy

Swing

jfrebel - Posted - 02/21/2008:  16:34:11

one thing I have heard is that ukes can't be tuned to much else without making some strings too lose and others too tight. also it can only take nylon strings because it lacks a truss rod and steel would warp and/or break the instrument.

if I could tune it like a mandolin/fiddle, that would be awesome.

I got a mandolin, but its very hard to push down on those strings. its worse than an acoustic guitar.

ultimately though, the ukes tuning will be fine. it will just take some getting used too.

I still wonder though why it has that tuning. (heck I even wonder why the fiddle is tuned like it is. who decides that standard tuning for (insert instrument) is X, and for what reason?

this is merely a curiosity of mine.

of course if I can tune my uke like a fiddle, I am down with that but as I understand it, you can't do this.

Edited by - jfrebel on 02/21/2008 16:54:02

bsed - Posted - 02/21/2008:  17:45:27

For those that say the guitar is too beastly big, my solution was to get a parlor-sized guitar. Much more manageable size, fits in a gig bag, man, I love it! I have a Martin that I bought from a vendor at the Minnesota Bluegrass & Old Time Festival. IT ONLY COST $300! How 'bout that?
But I also like the sound of the uke. I have a Stella banjo uke. One of these days I'll learn how to chord it.

Just call me Dwight.

Edited by - bsed on 02/21/2008 17:46:05

shanecrumb - Posted - 02/22/2008:  08:21:50

[quote]Originally posted by jfrebel

.

I got a mandolin, but its very hard to push down on those strings. its worse than an acoustic guitar.


[/quote

Perhaps you can get your mando set up so your action is lower if your interested on chording on it.

Cheers,
-Shane.

Dance All Night With a Bottle in My Hand

jfrebel - Posted - 02/22/2008:  20:37:07

I had the music store guy ease up the action, but there's only so much you can do to ease the action of steel strings (two of them per finger).

trying the uke tonight the C chord is really easy. just one finger. then I learned the F chord. just two fingers. yes! then came the D chord. ouch! its a barre chord you have to barre the second fret and then somehow stretch to finger the bottom string fifth fret. ugh! but at least its nylon strings and the instrument is small. the D chord will be a bear though as I am sure other chords will be.

I was happy to put down the uke for a while and pick up my fiddle. among the many reasons why I love my fiddle, one of those reasons is no barre chords. LOL!

DougD - Posted - 02/23/2008:  00:40:03

jfrebel - As we say "Joy of your new uke to you!"
The tuning you find "weird" is called "reentrant." That just means that the strings don't go in order from low to high, like a violin, as you already know. The uke is tuned this way because I think its European ancestors were tuned that way, and also the body of a standard (soprano) uke just isn't big enough to make a good sound if the G string were an octave lower. Its not so great for picking out scales and melodies, but its a nice sound for chords. They do make sets of strings for "low G" tuning though, and you could try it and see if you like it. You might also want to try a baritone uke, which is tuned DGBE, just like the top four strings of a guitar (I know it might make sense to you the other way, but the "top" string is the one highest in pitch (the first string), not the one furthest from the floor as you hold the instrument).
If you haven't realized it yet, the soprano uke is tuned just like the top four strings of a guitar with a capo at the fifth fret, except the fourth string is an octave higher. So the chord forms are the same as a guitar, except they sound a fourth higher. Your one finger C chord would be G on a guitar, the two finger F chord is C on a guitar. And the next chord you really need is G, not D IMO. So any guitar chord shape will work on the uke, but it will be up a fourth.
For backing up fiddle tunes you might find it easier to tune the uke aDF#B instead of gCEA (I think you had a typo when you said GCAE?). That way your one finger C chord will be a D, and the two finger chord will be a G - a little more useful with a fiddle. You can do this with most sets of strings without hurting anything.
If you check back in the uke part of the thread "Calling all mandolinists" there are some uke websites listed. Another one that might be helpful is http://www.ezfolk.com/ They have a pretty big uke section with lessons and chord charts. It is possible to tune a uke like mandolin, and its been discussed on some of those sites as far as what strings to use, etc.
And lastly, I think you could go a long way backing up fiddle tunes on a guitar without ever using a barre chord, but the uke will be good for understanding chords too.
Hope this helps. Ukes are a lot of fun.

Edited by - DougD on 02/23/2008 00:43:32

Coupedefleur - Posted - 02/23/2008:  09:51:25

The violin/mandolin tuning in 5ths is not optimized for playing chords, but the guitar, bari uke, and uke tunings are.

If you want to learn about chords and get the progressions in your bones, play chords, chords, chords and resist the temptation to noodle around.

A uke tuned in 5ths makes a pretty poor instrument- it's not constructed inside for that kind of range. You're asking the top string to be a 5th higher that it wants to be, and the low string to be a 4th lower than it wants to be. Look at the difference on how a guitar (even a classical guitar) and a uke are barred inside!

Consider the C string the lowest string if you really have to play melodies, and leave the G alone for a while. You can alternate notes on the top string with notes on the top string for a bell effect- that's been around for hundreds of years on instruments with re-entrant tuning, and gives a charming effect.

The re-entrant tuning started on the Renaissance and Baroque guitars, when they decided that bass strings were too expensive (they were hideously expensive at the time), and players decided that the liked the sound of the lower strings tuned high. And they're right! That close harmony works really, really well!

Some really good chord exercises and progressions for you:
http://www.howlinhobbit.com/docs/uk...ressions.pdf

Simple theory:
http://www.howlinhobbit.com/docs/ch...heory_v2.pdf

Edited by - Coupedefleur on 02/23/2008 09:53:31

jfrebel - Posted - 02/23/2008:  19:00:07

wow those PDF's are awsome! that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for for both fiddle and uke and anything else. stuff that helps you grasp music theory but offers those "cheater"ways to remember stuff, figure stuff out and understand stuff.

for example, I remember agonizing in a music class I took last semester at my college as he gave this really complicated way to figure out relative minors and majors. who knew it was a s simple as looking at the 6th note in the scale! LOL!

this is the kind of gold I'm looking for.

Edited by - jfrebel on 02/23/2008 19:00:53

Johnny Thomasson - Posted - 03/15/2008:  11:27:47

Take 4 strings off your mandolin and play it with only 4... this will eliminate 50% of the effort required on the part of your left hand to play a clear chord.

Johnny Thomasson
Aledo, Texas

rafa - Posted - 03/15/2008:  20:56:55

Hey John,Glad to hear your interest. Remember that if it was easy every body would do it. About the ouch stuff, Well get some callouses and stretch it out. I guess im trying to say PRACTICE. good luck , you can do it.

ottlakerambler - Posted - 04/05/2008:  07:47:32

I have a banjo uke, bought it about a year ago and love it. It, too, is tuned GCEA which is a bit strange, making the mando much better for learning fiddle "chords."

But, I just started retuning my uke to GDGD and, by golly, it works and now I can play *melody* lines to my favorite fiddle tunes which are in GDGD.